#74975, "howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit"
well here in about a week i'm going to order a bottom end kit from howell. the regular length rods are the same price as the long rod kit. which one should i order and why? im not looking for a fast as balls car, just low mid 14s everyday with my atx tranny.
and what about the bearing sizes? the block and crank i picked up are out of a 95 sohc neon w/ about 135k, so i was thinking about having the crankshaft machined for undersized bearings. sound good too? i know my spare block has diff. main bearings so the block and bedplate have to be machined to accept the later style bearings and align bored.
i'm going to be boosted this summer for sure, so i'm going with the low comp pistons. and i need to find someone to machine & assemble the block, so if anyone knows a good shop or person in va. or md., please let me know.
thanks guys.
Dan 97 Base Dodge Avenger aem cai, jeep tb, 17" gsx rims, tq mod, eclipse center console, shift knob, autometer phantom trans temp & a/f gauge
#75143, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 0
Long rods increase the torque curve of the engine, by giving the piston more dewell time at TDC. This allows the combustion to take place more fully at TDC will the explosion is contained, this means it pushes down harder on the piston when it goes over center increasing the torque. Every turbo engine we build for ourselves is long rod. It also gives a more favorable rod ratio.
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#75162, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 4 May-26-04 07:16 AM by turbo8u
Originally posted by AFX_Manufacturing The long rods are .136 inch longer.
whats the stock rod length? i cant seem to find it on the main site, i'll make a chart to show the piston speeds and extended dwell time at tdc as opposed to stock
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96 Black ESi 91 Red TSI AWD (RIP) 02 WRX
"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"
Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.
#75163, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 5
Originally posted by turbo8u
Originally posted by AFX_Manufacturing The long rods are .136 inch longer.
whats the stock rod length? i cant seem to find it on the main site, i'll make a chart to show the piston speeds and extended dwell time at tdc as opposed to stock
#75164, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 6
Originally posted by Michael_97RS
Originally posted by turbo8u
Originally posted by AFX_Manufacturing The long rods are .136 inch longer.
whats the stock rod length? i cant seem to find it on the main site, i'll make a chart to show the piston speeds and extended dwell time at tdc as opposed to stock
5.472"
werd, give me a few mins
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96 Black ESi 91 Red TSI AWD (RIP) 02 WRX
"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"
Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.
#75169, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 7 May-26-04 09:17 AM by turbo8u
ok i have all the charts showing piston speed and velocity at different crank angles, check it...i just showed some major ones
charts, notice piston speed at BDC
the rod ratio on a stock 420a is 1.67, reasonably good imo with a 7250 redline (7800 capable)
the rod ratio on a long rod 420a is 1.71, very nice most dragsters aim for a rod ratio of close to 1.8-2.0, with this rod ratio there will be less stress at higher rpm's and make for a perky low end torque graph on a dyno
notice the speed at BDC and how leveled out it got. also, since max piston speeds occur at TDC notice that too, slight drop.
the life of this engine imo would be longer seeing as how less stress on the rings, piston sidewalls and bearings and DEFINATELY makes good for a high rpm screamer
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96 Black ESi 91 Red TSI AWD (RIP) 02 WRX
"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"
Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.
#75171, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 8
What about the 2.2L motors Gary? I don't want you to give away any secrets but does that motor use the long rod kit or are they stockers. Also if they are modified stockers what is the rod ratio on those? Just want to know what I'm running and see what I can do on the rev's...
I edited to the wiki!
Originally posted by DR1665 NOTE TO SELF: Go commando to wedding. Scar the Irishman for life.
#75173, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 10
Yes it is a different crank but I bought it a while ago before the forged crank. So gary I guess I should reference that I have the 2.2L before the forged crank...
I edited to the wiki!
Originally posted by DR1665 NOTE TO SELF: Go commando to wedding. Scar the Irishman for life.
#75174, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 11
Originally posted by Kirby Yes it is a different crank but I bought it a while ago before the forged crank. So gary I guess I should reference that I have the 2.2L before the forged crank...
the one before the forged crank wasnt a true 2.2
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96 Black ESi 91 Red TSI AWD (RIP) 02 WRX
"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"
Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.
#75175, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 12
Well it's still more than stock and it's a non interference engine in it's present form. So even if it's not a "true" 2.2L it's still better than stock...
I edited to the wiki!
Originally posted by DR1665 NOTE TO SELF: Go commando to wedding. Scar the Irishman for life.
#75176, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 13
Originally posted by Kirby Well it's still more than stock and it's a non interference engine in it's present form. So even if it's not a "true" 2.2L it's still better than stock...
true, whether its interference or not doesnt really matter though.
NO replacement for displacement
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96 Black ESi 91 Red TSI AWD (RIP) 02 WRX
"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"
Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.
#75183, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 14
It does if your tensioner breaks on the interstate and shreds your timing belt against your cover...lol That happened to me and since it's non interference I didn't smash valves and have to rebuild the head... So remember, just because it's not important to you does not mean it's not important to someone...
I edited to the wiki!
Originally posted by DR1665 NOTE TO SELF: Go commando to wedding. Scar the Irishman for life.
#75184, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 15
Originally posted by Kirby It does if your tensioner breaks on the interstate and shreds your timing belt against your cover...lol That happened to me and since it's non interference I didn't smash valves and have to rebuild the head... So remember, just because it's not important to you does not mean it's not important to someone...
lol, i think the timing belt snapping on the freeway is the least of my worries. as rare as that is and all. especially when knowing the words 'regular maintenance'
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96 Black ESi 91 Red TSI AWD (RIP) 02 WRX
"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"
Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.
#75186, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 16
Originally posted by turbo8u
Originally posted by Kirby It does if your tensioner breaks on the interstate and shreds your timing belt against your cover...lol That happened to me and since it's non interference I didn't smash valves and have to rebuild the head... So remember, just because it's not important to you does not mean it's not important to someone...
lol, i think the timing belt snapping on the freeway is the least of my worries. as rare as that is and all. especially when knowing the words 'regular maintenance'
And with that statement, you have just cursed yourself, me thinketh. better knock on wood... just not my wood.
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#75234, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 16
Originally posted by turbo8u
Originally posted by Kirby It does if your tensioner breaks on the interstate and shreds your timing belt against your cover...lol That happened to me and since it's non interference I didn't smash valves and have to rebuild the head... So remember, just because it's not important to you does not mean it's not important to someone...
lol, i think the timing belt snapping on the freeway is the least of my worries. as rare as that is and all. especially when knowing the words 'regular maintenance'
I too know the meaning of "regular maintenance" but I can't control a bad part failing, can I?. I see it was at least slightly important to you that you were non interference though as you referenced it below, so I guess we both like the peace of mind in knowing that the valves and pistons won't shake hands if something goes wrong...
I edited to the wiki!
Originally posted by DR1665 NOTE TO SELF: Go commando to wedding. Scar the Irishman for life.
#75207, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 13
Originally posted by Kirby Well it's still more than stock and it's a non interference engine in it's present form. So even if it's not a "true" 2.2L it's still better than stock...
It is a 2.2 he had some bad information.
Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.
US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003
#75206, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 12
Originally posted by turbo8u the one before the forged crank wasnt a true 2.2
Yes it was. The stroke is the same in both the cast crank, and the forged crank. The cast crank was the inspiration for the forged crank. No sure why you thought different, but the strokes are the same.
Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.
US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003
#75216, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 24 May-27-04 06:21 AM by turbo8u
Originally posted by AFX_Manufacturing Max piston speed occurs half way down the bore. At TDC and BDC the piston stops to change direction at that point the piston has zero speed.
right, after TDC the piston has its max VELOCITY...thats what i meant. the chart shows piston speed to if you really want to get technical we can look at the crank angle to piston speed and velocity at different points in the bore
how is the "old" howell 2.2 a true 2.2? i thought it was like 2.145 or some shit, and then FTY came out with the stroker...then howell came out with a true 2.2
am i misinformed?
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96 Black ESi 91 Red TSI AWD (RIP) 02 WRX
"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"
Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.
#75220, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 25
Originally posted by turbo8u am i misinformed?
Yes.
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#75229, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 27
Well what about my question Gary, are the rods in the 2.2L the "Long" rods, or are they just the stockers? and I guess what I'm trying to say is If I can remove my fuel cut issues, how high can I rev the 2.2L safely??
I edited to the wiki!
Originally posted by DR1665 NOTE TO SELF: Go commando to wedding. Scar the Irishman for life.
#75255, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 28 May-27-04 03:45 PM by Eagle 5
Acceleration is greatest and TDC and BDC and velocity is ZERO, and Velocity is greatest at 90 degress from tdc and bdc and acceleartion is ZERO. basic physics.
now, that is on a rotating part an constant speed, however, with the way an engine truly works, where the max acceleration and velocity is may not be the same but would be very very hard to figure out EACTLY where it is since you do not know the exact way it is burning or how long it is burning in the cylinder, or where it adds the most force. this could however be measured but would require a lot of work to get items to measure it correctly and really would not be worth it
#75285, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 29 May-28-04 06:48 AM by turbo8u
Originally posted by Eagle 5 would be very very hard to figure out EACTLY where it is since you do not know the exact way it is burning or how long it is burning in the cylinder, or where it adds the most force. this could however be measured but would require a lot of work to get items to measure it correctly and really would not be worth it
stock 2gnt rod length and stroke:
howell long rod:
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96 Black ESi 91 Red TSI AWD (RIP) 02 WRX
"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"
Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.
#75297, "RE: howell long rod kit bottom end kit vs. regular bottom end kit" In response to Reply # 28
Originally posted by Kirby Well what about my question Gary, are the rods in the 2.2L the "Long" rods, or are they just the stockers? and I guess what I'm trying to say is If I can remove my fuel cut issues, how high can I rev the 2.2L safely??
The stroker uses a stock length rod. We have run them to 8200 RPM's without problem.
Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.
US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003
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with a 7250 redline (7800 capable)
but does that motor use the long rod kit or are they stockers. Also if they are modified stockers what is the rod ratio on those? Just want to know what I'm running and see what I can do on the rev's...
So remember, just because it's not important to you does not mean it's not important to someone... 
