What causes air to enter the cylinders and WHY. The atmosphere pushing in air as the pistons move up and down or the pistons sucking in air....

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

The pistons suck the air in on the down stroke and then compress it on the way up once the intake valves close.

best time so far 14.3 @ 101.1mph

survey says vaccuum ... fire consumes air ....the absence of air creates a vacuum ... a vaccuum likes sucking things ...

1997 RS AUTO

ORACLE063
1/4 - 17.021
60' - 2.510
Weight 2730

I can't beleive i just read this question from you of all people. What is this world coming to? My faith in Old Schoolers has been shaken to its foundations.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Originally posted by Michael_97RS

Originally posted by DarkOne I can't beleive i just read this question from you of all people. What is this world coming to? My faith in Old Schoolers has been shaken to its foundations.

I hope it was a question to teach a lesson. Josiah should know better. http://www.exileracing.com una salus victus Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

Well, having every bone in your face broken can do strange things to a person. At least dumb isn't contagious.. i'd be severely infected at this point..

Anyway, all jokes aside, i'll let the KNOOBS answer this one.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Originally posted by DarkOne
...At least dumb isn't contagious.. . i'd be severely infected at this point.. ...

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

Give em some time Josiah, don't spoil the lesson yet.



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

there are little hamsters running on spinning wheels, the wheels suck air in from the outside into the cylinders. kind of like little fans, they make a nice buzzing noise..... oh wait, thats how a honda works...

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

Air is sucked into the cylinder as the piston travels from TDC to BDC. This holds true until you add forced induction.

John 96 GS

there are little crackheads down there sucking their brains out for just one more hit
______________
Chris
96 ESI 5 spd
Milwaukee, WI

:wary

This is pretty funny actually.

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

Next on 2GNT.com - elitism running rampant - what can YOU do about it? Details at ten.
______________
Chris
96 ESI 5 spd
Milwaukee, WI

About the hamster coment, you were close but not quite right. The hamsters on the wheels run, the running is maintained as mechanical energy. The engine itself would not need air at all if the hamster didnt have to breath. The better the intake flow, the better your hamsters breathe, therefore, the better the car runs

-Travis

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

On the intake stroke, the intake valve has opened. The piston is moving down, and a mixture of air and vaporized fuel is being pushed by atmospheric pressure into the cylinder through the intake valve port.

good enough

What the hell foggy you trying to rip off my answer? I clearly posted my answer first(look at the time) and now your sounding pretty much like you got that idea from me...........







I got the sonic if you got the boom.

Basic fundemental question, the answer to which is essential to understanding how an internal combustion engine works.

We could have an on-line class about the workings of the internal combustion engine, taught be Skrilla, Mike, Thura, and Dino.. err, maybe not Dino, as he'd fail people randomly for the hell of it or for stupid questions..

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

Originally posted by VX100
maybe not Dino, as he'd fail people randomly for the hell of it or for stupid questions..

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

the piston starts at the top, the intake valve opens, and the piston moves down to let the engine take in a cylinder-full of air and gasoline. (aka it uses vaccum to suck in air on the intake stroke)
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

DarkOne> Screw you guys, i'm going home.
chrysler kid> and fyi i have never HAD to shave.
DR1665> I'm sure your Talon and my Talon are all there needs to be, since we're the only two Talons that really matter around here

I laugh at all of you.

Everyone knows that a TURBO forces the air into the cylinder

Wait, maybe I'm just making shit up. Yep. That's it. Sorry, I was pretending that I was someone else for a second.

Everyone knows that a long rod engine has a larger rod angle because the rod is longer. Oh, wait, I'm full of shit and totally wrong on that one, too.

<- that was me in the bathroom today.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

mototool = dino's alter ego
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

DarkOne> Screw you guys, i'm going home.
chrysler kid> and fyi i have never HAD to shave.
DR1665> I'm sure your Talon and my Talon are all there needs to be, since we're the only two Talons that really matter around here

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

http://photos.freeserve.com/public/detail.html?c_album=400479
Member#3206(LOL)

Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself...

where the hell is the ceiling?

i seriously think its just dino fucking around
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

DarkOne> Screw you guys, i'm going home.
chrysler kid> and fyi i have never HAD to shave.
DR1665> I'm sure your Talon and my Talon are all there needs to be, since we're the only two Talons that really matter around here

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

i put de gas in de car and it go.




______________
Chris
96 ESI 5 spd
Milwaukee, WI

Originally posted by VX100
...We could have an on-line class about the workings of the internal combustion engine, taught be Skrilla, Mike, Thura, and Dino.. err, maybe not Dino, as he'd fail people randomly for the hell of it or for stupid questions..

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

Too many big words...head hurts.../me dies

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

The reality is that space is a lack of air, hence total vacuum. pressure on earth is caused by the atmosphere acting like a balloon around the earth. Vacuum is truly the lack of Air. 100 % vacuum will be a condition where a chamber or vessel has a complete lack of all air within. Different planets with different masses and atmospheric densities will have a different atmospheric pressure than the earth's 14.5 psi or so. So, with regards to an engine, if the piston is at TDC then only the availiable volume will be filled with the 14.5 atmospheric PSI. As the piston moves down towards BDC, the 14.5 atmospheric PSI will rush into the cylinder to fill the increasing volume of the cylinder where the intake valves will eventually close. "suction" by standard terms is what you would feel if you were to place your hand over the intake ports while the piston is moving from TDC to BDC. Also, since the piston to cylinder wall contact is basically a seal, this actually helps draw in air more effectively than if it were to passively fill the chamber by just atmospheric pressure. There is a point where you can actually get more air in the cylinder than it can hold statically. This is due to the fact that the air going into the cylinder has a velocity and when the piston reaches BDC although the cylinder volume at this point does not increase, the momentum of the moving air will actually force a little more air into the cylinder. this would be the ideal time for the intake valves to close, and from my research, this is what high performance NA cars are after. this is also one reason why adjustable cam gears help to extract more power.

okay, i'm done

late
james

Rest In Peace Heidi Doggy

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

^^^ exactly skrilla

why do you think your car runs like ass in the mountains? lower psi in the air (not sea level)
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

DarkOne> Screw you guys, i'm going home.
chrysler kid> and fyi i have never HAD to shave.
DR1665> I'm sure your Talon and my Talon are all there needs to be, since we're the only two Talons that really matter around here

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

i guess you learn somethin new everyday, eh?
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

DarkOne> Screw you guys, i'm going home.
chrysler kid> and fyi i have never HAD to shave.
DR1665> I'm sure your Talon and my Talon are all there needs to be, since we're the only two Talons that really matter around here

if the cylinder volume is increasing faster than the flow rate that the ports can handle then the seal between the piston and cylinder will cause air to be drawn in faster than atmospheric pressure can push it in. Yes, if we were not talking about a dynamic system then you would be correct, but we have a changing volume here. The 2 liter soda you are talking about is a fixed volume system. Since the volume of the bottle remains constant and you are removing the liquid from the inside, you are decreasing the amount of material but not decreasing the volume. then you get the convulsions where the fixed volume is trying to maintain its size by displacing soda with air. We are not talking about the same thing here. There are many variables that are not being addressed and yes the basic premise is that atmospheric pressure fills our cylinders, but it ain't as simple as that.

late
james

Rest In Peace Heidi Doggy

getty up

-kent-




'98 Talon...gone, but not forgotten

two words:

over-lap
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

DarkOne> Screw you guys, i'm going home.
chrysler kid> and fyi i have never HAD to shave.
DR1665> I'm sure your Talon and my Talon are all there needs to be, since we're the only two Talons that really matter around here

sorry MRJ82 didnt mean to peak at your answer.

i hit reply on the first page cuz i was tired of the jokers.
not that they werent funny!

i just wanted to win!
after it posted i noticed i was sitting after you.

for the record i didnt rip your answer.

we can race for it, then ill buy ya a beer.
fair

ok, time for noob language.

Piston thingy goes down

Air from intake go into motor to chase piston like a dumb dog after a car.

valves closes (air goes "oh shit") and the piston aka car runs over the dog (air/fuel charge) to the top of the cylinder.

stuff goes boom and then the piston flyes to the bottom of the bore then tells the exhaust to GTFO when the exhaust valves open!

Hope that clears things up for all you noobie

you know what, i'm both glad for this thread and pissed off. yes, i know i'm a noob and i gladly admit it, for we all start somewhere. even you old schoolers were noob's once, believe it or not. so i do appreciate the online lesson and information, but i do not appreciate the pompous attitude you guys do it in. one reason i enjoy this board is for the feeling of willingness to help. please do not turn into a board that turns away noobs by acting like arrogant dicks. everyone starts somewhere, just bear with them. i understand the original intent of the thread was to teach, but ummm, there's better ways to go about it, and it could really come about without all the sarcastic and arrogant attitudes. please, stick to being helpful, don't expect us to know everything, and realize, we're trying to learn, and there's a certain sense of respect for the "teacher" don't ruin that.

hydrata, most 'noobs' sit quietly until they can gather enough info to be accepted as a non noob, at which point they earn the right to bash noobs. What we're talkin about is the maturation of any individual as he learns more. This sociological aspect of noobs can be reflected in everything. Frats, upperclassmen-lowerclassmen relationships, veteran soldiers-new recruits, etc etc. You're fighting against human characterisitc, what you're saying isn't going to change anything, it'll most likely just draw attention to yourself as a whiner. Not tryin to bash you, just showin you truth of the matter.

Back on post subject: So skrilla, you're trying to tell me this whole post was just physics debate? I thought it was just easier to use the word "suck" and imply that the elements in question are being pushed to equalize pressure between two environments.. because, well, it's easier to say suck.

But, my answer was going to be that when the intake valve(s) open, air is being drawn in. Can I use the word "drawn" or is that just as bad as "suck"?

16.1 @ 87.11
http://www.virtuallyinfamous.com

ARD 57mm tb and p&p manifold, Neuspeed STB, Pro-kits, Illuminas, Injen CAI with K&N, 2.5" pacesetter catback,
AF/X UDP, Rear STB, Powerslot rotors, RRE SS Brakelines.

mystic, you're going overboard...it's an internet forum, not some established form of hierarchy, sheesh.

Okay, extra credit for figuring out what would be the ideal length and diameter of intake runners (having a REALISTIC length), as well as the ideal plenum volume for a hypothetical intake manifold (single plenum design) for a 2 L engine, for the purpose of having a helmholtz resonating effect somewhere between 5000 and 7000 rpm

2gnt: '99 RS-T, killed by a toyota, pending rebuild...
Daily: Volt
Daily #2: '99 EVG ebike- STOLEN by PEDRO

can i get the question in english please?
my head hurts, im gonna go fix my car or somthing and then find the library and a physics book

hah! Skrilla want't to play with the knoobs!

Your right, but throughout the course of life we regard such a phenomena as sucking, not lack of volume. Trick question.

It's the same reason your ears pop at the bottom of a swimming pool. The force of alllll the watter above you is tring to displace the air in your head because the air is lighter. Well... It's close to the same idea. Water is heavier than air, just like air is heavier than a lack of air.

You guys don't like lessons in physics? Stop playing with your car, physics is the basis of eveything we are doing. Etx, like physics.

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

Originally posted by etx
hah! Skrilla want't to play with the knoobs! Your right, but throughout the course of life we regard such a phenomena as sucking, not lack of volume. Trick question. It's the same reason your ears pop at the bottom of a swimming pool. The force of alllll the watter above you is tring to displace the air in your head because the air is lighter. Well... It's close to the same idea. Water is heavier than air, just like air is heavier than a lack of air. You guys don't like lessons in physics? Stop playing with your car, physics is the basis of eveything we are doing. Etx, like physics.

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

Fun until you get water traped in your head from swimming at the bottom of the pool!

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

Also instead of saying lack of air, you can say air fills the cylidners because of a pressure drop. yeah its the same thing as lack of air so air goes in but a lack of air generally means lower pressure. Works the same way as the air in a gas turbine (or jet engine) air moves to where there is lower pressure, right after its been compressed there is a diffuser before the combustor, air moves toward the lower pressure.
same in a car engine, air goes where there is lower pressure.

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

Dont we have better things to be discussin like why in the hell we dont have a better flowing head on our block? And not ask ?'s that if you dont know you shouldnt be moddin your car....... Ahhh screw it lets screw with the noobs minds

97 ECLIPSE GST SOLD
13 Chrysler 200 V6

Our head flows fine. It could use some work, but it's on par if you ask me.

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

Originally posted by Pyscodragon
Dont we have better things to be discussin like why in the hell we dont have a better flowing head on our block? And not ask ?'s that if you dont know you shouldnt be moddin your car....... Ahhh screw it lets screw with the noobs minds

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!