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>sigh, wrong, wrong, wrong. You can't go "too big" on the exhaust.
Um, suuurrreee. Yes you can have too big of an exhaust, if it is a non turbo. A turbo car is a different story. (as I like to say, a turbo changes the rules) We're talking naturally aspirated vehicle dynamics.
>Now, with your minimal mods, you may not see much of a gain from a >3" over a 2.5", but you will see a gain, and you WON'T (again, I >could give two shits what everyone else says, if they disagree, >they're wrong, we've been through this) lose power down low.
WHY will you see a gain? Explain to all of us how or why EXACTLY, my car, right now, will see a gain from putting on a 3 inch exhaust.
Go ahead, we're all listening....
Also explain WHY, EXACTLY, you won't see a loss in the car's bottom end?
What is exactly going on when you have exhaust gas going through an exhaust pipe? What is going to happen when you increase the size of that pipe? What is that exhaust gas going to do differently? What is the effect on the engine?
How does fluid dynamics and thermodynamics come into play here? How are those two principles even RELATED to the workings of an internal combustion engine? Think about this, for god's sake! Learn the theory, do the reading and research, then reason it out!
Why can't people actually THINK and FIGURE THINGS OUT ANYMORE?!?!? We're supposedly the smartest creatures on the planet, but some people continue to just follow what other people say like sheep because it's the first thing they hear.
Why do people still believe this "bigger is better" crap at face value?!?!? Don't just quote what the riceboys say and what is written in a magazine trying to sell you parts, and don't just believe what you want to believe so you can rationalize the $600 you spent on your 3 inch exhaust. (yea, it MUST be faster! look how much money I spent on it!)
You'd better give a hell of alot more than two shits about what other people say, because quite frankly if you REALLY TRULY BELIEVE that a 3 inch exhaust won't cost bottom end on one of our cars, let alone make the car run like absolute shit, then you don't understand engine dynamics. Period. Stop spreading mis-information.
Explain to all of us EXACTLY, HOW and WHY myself, and so many other people, are wrong. Explain why what I've seen from driving my car and other cars with different exhaust setups, and why what other people have seen, is totally wrong.
I'm sure you can back up your reasoning with technical explanations and also correctly explaining the fundementals of how an internal combustion engine works to support your reasoning.
PLEASE GO AHEAD!  I want to hear this one!
>SCC cut off the exhaust and put on 3" straight pipes on two seperate >cars (one was a SE-R, the other a honda) and BOTH of them made more >power EVERYWHERE in the power band.
Everywhere, Eh? As every good scientist says "show me the data"
Of course they made more power, they completly removed the mufflers, those stock mufflers restrict so much that it had better have gained power.
But that doesn't mean a 3 inch exhaust is optimal for a small displacement engine, versus a different sized exhaust.
I drove a 2GNT with a big 2.5 or 3 inch exhaust on it (I don't remember the size exactly, I think it was 3 inch, I can confirm it if you like) and you know what? It had NO BALLS. It was SLOW. It was so much slower than my car in the low end and the mid range, I was shocked. It was so much slower, I did not need to strap it to a dyno to know it had less power. It was blatantly obvious.
And know what else? I'm not the only person who has driven a 2GNT with a 3 inch exhaust and one without and noticed the difference.
I wasn't even the only person to drive THAT EXACT SAME CAR with the 3 inch exhaust and say "it has no power" afterwards.
Quite frankly, I trust empircal evidence and practical experience over a rice-boy magazine essentially advertizing 3 inch exhausts anyday.
>Let the internet myth die guys, seriously.
It's not an "internet myth." Seriously. It's based on the sound understanding of the dynamics and operation of the internal combustion engine.
The MYTH is that "bigger is better" when it comes to exhaust size. We've been trying to educate people that the "bigger is better" method of modding a car isn't always right, and the reasoning as to WHY THIS IS SO. It looks like we've still got more work to do.
If "bigger is always better" then explain to me why our cars don't have 3 inch exhausts on it from the factory? I'm sure you can put a muffler on a 3 inch exhaust to keep it quiet, so sound can't be the issue. And it has nothing to do with emissions. And in the grand scheme of a car, a 3 inch pipe isn't that much more money for a car manufacturer, so it's not going to cost them too much money.
So why do we have a 2 inch exhaust, and not a 3 inch exhaust? Why does the STOCK TURBO ECLIPSE have the EXACT SAME sized pipe?
I'm sure Mitsubishi WANTS to sell slow cars. I'm sure they strive and go out of their way to handicap their HP ratings as much as possible, so the competition can advertise thay they have more HP in their cars and sell more cars than Mitsubishi.
I'm sure every car company follows this same reasoning, and every car company doesn't have many highly educated and experienced automotive engineers designing their engines for them, who know FAR more about the internal combustion engine than me, or anyone else here on this board.
Why doesn't a Corvette have a 5 inch exhaust? You just said you can't go too big on exhaust! So why not? They have a 5.7L V8, they must absolutely NEED a 5 inch exhaust, because "bigger is better."
So why do the Corvette designers, or Viper designers, or Ferrari designers, who are all striving for ultimate performance, not have 5 inch exhausts on their cars?
>Is it worth the extra cost for a 3" over a 2.5" for you right now? >Probably not, but will you lose power because of it? Hell no.
Not only is is not worth the extra cost, you'll loose power as well.
Ok, If you want a technical explanation, I'll give it to you.
But FIRST, YOU are the one who is so certain that you can't go "too big" with an exhaust. So, FIRST, I want YOU to expain WHY.
You spoke up, so let's hear it.
(I know exactly what you're going to use as the cornerstone of your argument. I'm waiting for the magic word.... I'm conjuring it up right now.... I know it's coming... you're going to say it..... I know you will, since every "bigger is better" proponent uses it.... but the funny thing is, IT is the real "internet myth" .... here it is .... backpressure.... backpressure... backpressure...)
I'm no expert at this. I'm a chemist, not an automotive engineer. But, I have practical experience, I know a little something about fluid dynamics and thermodynamics (that whole scientist thing), I know others with even more experience modding cars that me, and I know people who have been racing and building engines for DECADES. So I will do my best to present the information and explanation so as to be perfectly clear.
So, what is going to probably happen here is you will give your explanation, I'll will give mine (and, concequently, shoot your explanation full of holes), and you will STILL not believe me, or anyone else here. So after you don't believe me, here is what I propose. Get the exact same mods on your 2GNT (or anyone elses) and mine, except put a 3 inch exhaust on yours and I'll keep my GS-T muffler, and I'll GAURANTEE you I'll win that race.
(DAMN, I feel like Mototool right now, and it's not a bad feeling either 
Heh, if he doesn't like the fact that "bigger isn't better" for exhausts, then he'll REALLY flip when he hears "bigger isn't better" for tires either!) "Tutto fa brodo."
Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH
And also a 2011 Ralliart
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This isn't correct, either.
