Hi! The compression on my car is very low now. So I am planning to order a bottom end rebuild kit from Howell Automotive.
(I had Hahn stage II and I need low compression pistons)

I saw Howell had the Bottome End Long Rod Kit (+$100) & Eagle Extreme Rods (+$120). I had spent more than a hour tried to search this forum and I am surprise that no body talks about them. so I don't have any information about them.

I called Howell today and got some answers but still very confused. I need to order the rebuild kit this week so I can fix my car. If anyone knows anything about them please discuss here and help me answer my questions so I can order the right rebuild kit for my car.

Here are the questions:

1. Is the Eagle Extreme rods much better than the regular Eagle rods? Howell told me the Eagle Extreme rods can hold 700HP, is it ture?

2. Howell told me that the Bottom End Long Rod Kit can create 30% to 20% more power than the regular Bottom End rebuild kit. Is this ture? If not, how much more power it make?

3. If the Long Rod kit can create 20-30% more power then it can make same power as the 2.2 Stroker Kit, righ?? Howell told me yes, but I really want to make sure it is ture.

4. Why do people buy the 2.2 Stroker Kit instead of the Long Rod Kit? They both makes the same power (according to Howell) and Long Rod kit is a lot cheaper.

5. Is the Long Rod Kit can damage or bad to the engine? Because it is 0.136in longer than stock.

6. Ihe regular Bottom End rebuild kit I can choose (+$120) option for the Eagle Extreme Rods, but no option for the Long Rod Kit. Can I still get the Eagle Extreme Rods with this kit? Howell told me yes, but I can not find the Eagle Extreme Long Rods in their website.

7. Is the ARP main studs necessary for rebuild? I had already got the ARP head studs.


I really appreciate all the help from you guys!! Thank you!!

I am a proud owner of a 2gnt turbo:thumbsup

>I called Howell today and got some answers but still very
>confused. I need to order the rebuild kit this week so I can
>fix my car. If anyone knows anything about them please discuss
>here and help me answer my questions so I can order the right
>rebuild kit for my car.

go to www.gottude.com Motofool (Bill) will explain it all for you and he sells kits too for a little less than Howell.

>1. Is the Eagle Extreme rods much better than the regular
>Eagle rods? Howell told me the Eagle Extreme rods can hold
>700HP, is it ture?

I believe so, but do you really expect to make 700hp on this car anytime soon? I think the regular Eagle rods will handle over 400hp

>2. Howell told me that the Bottom End Long Rod Kit can create
>30% to 20% more power than the regular Bottom End rebuild kit.
>Is this ture? If not, how much more power it make?

Is this like that screamer in the advanced tuing section? If so, you would need to rev the engine way high to see this power.

>3. If the Long Rod kit can create 20-30% more power then it
>can make same power as the 2.2 Stroker Kit, righ?? Howell told
>me yes, but I really want to make sure it is ture.

not sure

>4. Why do people buy the 2.2 Stroker Kit instead of the Long
>Rod Kit? They both makes the same power (according to Howell)
>and Long Rod kit is a lot cheaper.

again, not sure

>5. Is the Long Rod Kit can damage or bad to the engine?
>Because it is 0.136in longer than stock.

may cause clearance issues with the valvetrain. Maybe this bumps compression the same way milling the head does?

>6. Ihe regular Bottom End rebuild kit I can choose (+$120)
>option for the Eagle Extreme Rods, but no option for the Long
>Rod Kit. Can I still get the Eagle Extreme Rods with this kit?
>Howell told me yes, but I can not find the Eagle Extreme Long
>Rods in their website.

sorry, I'm not much help here either, but I'm trying to whittle your questions down.

>7. Is the ARP main studs necessary for rebuild? I had already
>got the ARP head studs.

you have the head studs. as long as they're not stretched (unlikely) you should be fine to use them. you'll want the ARPs for the rods though.

>I really appreciate all the help from you guys!! Thank you!!

hope i helped some!


>I am a proud owner of a 2gnt turbo:thumbsup

I am a proud owner of a high-compression gottude-powered all motor 2gnt.

eagle rod vers teh extreme the difference is stronger arp rod bolts

the 2.2 stroker is a good way to go if u ahve the money..

i dont see how the long rod motor would make the same amount of power unless u were exceeding the stock rev limit by a decent amount..


arp head botls are good to be reused...
main bolts wouldn't be a bad idea once your in the block

im assuming that they used longer rods and hortened the piston and moved the wrist pin up in the piston...

the reason noone runs the long rod kit as i havent even heard of it yet.. ive been around a while and if i ahvent heard of it doubt many others have..

a long rod kit if not done properly have make the cylinders halfway up egg shape from excessively rod angles,
also is the wrong rod strenght is used it can put too much stresson the rod while compression is happening and snap the rods...

Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

So the Long rod kit is not a good choice??

If anyone using or know anything about the Long rod kit please tell me how is it run with our engine. what's good or bad.

I really need to know more so I can decide which rebuild kit I'm going to buy on Monday.

Thank you very much!

well, since howell is the one selling you the kit you should contact them and ask them the questions. No need to jump directly into the rebuild...you can spare a day or 2 to ask howell all of these questions because they wouldnt sell it to you if it was crap. The long-rod will increase compression thus increasing hp potential so if you were going to do it you would want stock compression pistons with the longer rods. Also, these long rod kits might just be for the 2.4L motor...you might want to check on that...

2003 Acura RSX Type-S
15.042 @ 93.06
Devon
Creator of one of the longest and most controversial posts in 2gnt history...
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=38&topic_id=112462&mesg_id=112462&page=

I would not go with a long rod kit if I were you. Bill is right, the excessive rod angle can cause the engine to wear excessively and want to pull itself apart at high rpms. It might be just fine if you want to reduce your redline, but I still wouldn't recommend it. My suggestion to you is to go with a standard 2.0, a stroker 2.2, or swap in a 2.4 (if you have the money and patience).

As for Howell Automotive, I will personally never do business with them again. I purchased an entire short block from them awhile back and they sent me a piece of garbage that leaked oil from every single seal (literally). Their customer service is their biggest downfall though. There are far better businesses out there to do business with. I have heard great things about Bill's (Motofool) business, and I can personally vouch for www.vtengines.com (they rock). I personally am working for www.fasterthanyou.com now and we are directly affiliated with VT. We can get you any parts that you need (although they may not be listed on the website yet).

Matt
1995 Eclipse GS
2.0L, S16g Turbo, 8 Injectors, 26psi

1998 Eclipse GSX
2.3L Stroker, AEM EMS Converted to Speed Density, FP3065 Turbo, 35psi , and so on...

Ok, Thanks for all the inputs.
I guess I will give bill and www.fasterthanyou.com a call on Monday to get my rebuild kit.

Does any body know Bill's business (Motofool) phone#?

I can't wait to rebuild my ca

Thank you very much!

509-879-2568
i answer on weekends sometimes too =)

Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

>I would not go with a long rod kit if I were you. Bill is
>right, the excessive rod angle can cause the engine to wear
>excessively and want to pull itself apart at high rpms. It
>might be just fine if you want to reduce your redline, but I
>still wouldn't recommend it. My suggestion to you is to go
>with a standard 2.0, a stroker 2.2, or swap in a 2.4 (if you
>have the money and patience).


You'll have to excuse me, I had a brain fart posting this. A long rod kit will reduce the rod angle and piston speed and increase the dwell time at TDC and BDC. It increases power because less power is used up in the form of piston speed. It will not be pulling the motor apart like I said (thats what an excessive stroker motor will do), but I would be surprised if it produced as much power as the 2.2 stroker does. I apologise for misinforming you. I would like to see a dyno comparison between a stroker and a long rod motor though...

A stroker kit increases the piston speed and the rod:stroke ratio but also increases displacement which a long rod kit will not. A stroker is generally worth it if you only lose a few hundred rpms (which is the case with a 2.2). The reason that you can't stroke the 420a much is because of what I posted above. The 2.2 stroker that FTY sells gets the extra displacement by both boring out the cylinders .040" over and modifying the stock crank to get a bit more stroke. With the 420A, if you tried to stroke it to say a 2.3, you would run into problems with excessive rod angles.

Matt
1995 Eclipse GS
2.0L, S16g Turbo, 8 Injectors, 26psi

1998 Eclipse GSX
2.3L Stroker, AEM EMS Converted to Speed Density, FP3065 Turbo, 35psi , and so on...

saw a couple say the long rod kit will increase compression and may cause valve-train clearance issues...dont think the long rod kit increases compression at all, as the piston is modified and the wrist pin is moved up higher in the piston.

the point of the lond rod kit is to increase piston dwell time at TDC. Thats where the increase in power comes from.

dont know the rod angle on howells kit, so side-load and cylinder wall wear may be an issue w/ the long rod kit, as others already said.

95 Avenger
ATX->MTX Swap
Holset HX40 @ 26 psi