Well, my run of luck started to run out on me yesterday afternoon. I found out that I didn't get a class I wasn't supposed to be in in the first place dropped in time, so it's gonna cost me another $1200, only *half* my student loans are set up to auto-renew, so I'm $177 short on tuition this term, and then, the cherry on top, while I was inside for 15 minutes discussing all this with the FinAid guy, Sarah was sitting in the Talon with the A/C on in the parking lot. When I pull out onto the main road to leave school, I have a nice cloud of smoke following me. I pull over to check it out. Seems like maybe oil or coolant or both, but it really pissed me off.

Here's what's happening:
-if I sit and idle for any amount of time more than like 5 minutes, I get some smoke when I start going again. It seems the longer I sit and idle, the more smoke there is.
-after I get going, there is no smoke. Go figure. It only smokes for about 2 minutes or less.
-it is not RPM dependent. Whether I baby her or really kick her in the ass getting on the highway, once the smoke stops, it's gone.
-there is no noticeable performace change when smoking or not.
-oil level seems to be stable
-car does sound similar to a diesel, but not really. Definitely does not sound like it used to (before rebuild) Once it's warmed up, it's not as noticeable, but still, my buddy told me yesterday it sounds like a diesel airplane (with the exhaust)

So, I'm sure you know how embarrassing this is to come out here and post this since it's more than likely due to something I fucked up during rebuild, but I could sure use some advice. I have yet to retorque the head since we first started it and was planning on doing this next Sunday sometime. Any other ideas? TIA!

question 1 do u have a pcv valve on the car

question 2 what kind of head gasket did u use?

if MLS did u resurface the block and head?


question 3 what kind of oil are u running?

question 4 what color is the smoke

Question 5 is their liquid in the smoke if u hold up a paper towl will it darken? and get oily?

is there a loss of power?


how does it sound like a deisel is it knocking or ??

Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

>question 1 do u have a pcv valve on the car
yes, I can hear it working

>question 2 what kind of head gasket did u use?
MLS from Bob Kise

>if MLS did u resurface the block and head?
had the block decked, not the head

>question 3 what kind of oil are u running?
cheap ass Coastal 10w-30 from AutoZone for $1.19/qt

>question 4 what color is the smoke
light. I this is why I thought coolant

>Question 5 is their liquid in the smoke if u hold up a paper
>towl will it darken? and get oily?
I will have to test this out tonight sometime.

>is there a loss of power?
none. she runs great. very quick and smooth.


>how does it sound like a deisel is it knocking or ??
it doesn't sound like a diesel truck or a semi, but it sounds sort of hollow and weird. I can't really describe it too well. I have been running 91 octane since I started her back up and we put a half a bottle of octane booster in before that when she only had about 1/8 a tank. sounds the same the entire time.

If it was detonation, wouldn't the temp gauge be high? It's maintained normal op temp the whole time. Like I said, she's running great. I mean awesome, but the intermittent smoke is cause for concern and the noise as well, but the smoke is what really worries me.

>Bill

Thanks Bill!

>had the block decked, not the head

Jeez. ALWAYS deck the head. The block is cast iron, it is much less liekly to deform than the soft aluminum head. I doubt you've got a HG issue, but still - of the two, its more important to make sure the head is flat, because its more likely to NOT be flat.

You've probably got leaking valvestem seals, or a bad PCV valve that is slowly sucking oil into your intake.

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I'd like to first say thank you to you guys for the input.
Second, I'd like to say DON'T YOU SAY A WORD RUN4CVR!
(He was after me to get the head resurfaced, but I just plain ran out of money - what are you gonna do, eh?)

Irregardless, the other head we had was warped .002" and all the intake valves were either fucked or failing, so I figured I'd rather put a head on that I knew was working fine and take this risk, than to put one I knew was bad on the car.

If the head wasn't sealing right, wouldn't I still be getting the cursed oil drip of death down the block somewhere?

I will test the PCV per the Chiltons tonight after class when it's cooled off to 100* or so, but I doubt it's the problem. (I hope it's the problem, but I doubt it.)

I will also pull the VC this weekend and check torque on the head bolts. I will be checking this thread throughout the day in case I missed something, and I will post an update when I have tried the suggested remedies.

Thanks as always...


Brian

I just have to say... Irregardless is not a word.

John 96 GS

>I just have to say... Irregardless is not a word.

pwn3d

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

>I just have to say... Irregardless is not a word.
>

Oh but it is a word. Just a word used in an informal setting, such as 2gnt. To use that word in a formal writing style, an essay, would be wrong. It is a word used to mean "in spite of everything; without regard to drawbacks". (just messin' with ya by the wa )

But yea I hope you get that smoke fixed

Formerly Joe B Slow
Hi.
AIM: brohymn411
Email: brohymn411@hotmail.com

ph33r me im l33t: I'm like
ph33r me im l33t: petting the tranny cooler
ph33r me im l33t: it looks like a baby intercooler
ph33r me im l33t: it's so cute
ph33r me im l33t: seriously man
ph33r me im l33t: it's like
ph33r me im l33t: I flow shit
ph33r me im l33t: what now
ph33r me im l33t: I cool that bitch down

I'll say it for run4cvr..."I told you, you son of a bitch!"...just joking Brian...

1995 Eagle Talon Esi
14.4 @ 102MPH
Speedworld Motorplex
Phoenix, Arizona

with valve stems seals or guides being worn it would only leak into the cylidners not on the outside of the block that would be a head gasket or valve cover gasket problem....

check your compression, do a leak down test that will tell u the rings are in good shape and the head gasket also...


if its valve seals pull your plugs see if any of them are darker then the rest...

post pics of your spark plugs...


Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

WOW... my car is doing the same exact thing. I still have the stock motor and the car is NA, but its exactly the same as you described. When you start the car it will smoke badly at idle, but once you start driving it goes away. When it idles for prolonged time after driving, the smoke will slowly reappear. Plus my car sounds like a v8/diesel, kinda like a hollow sound... Its exactly as youre describing it.

I was afraid that it was the rings in my car. The smoke was always much more dense when the engine was cold then when it was warm, but it was always there. If you figure out what it is on your car, let me know cause its probably the same problem on mine.

NeoVB
2005 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS
1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS TURBO
1995 Mitsubishi Galant ES DOHC TURBO
1991 Eagle Talon TSI AWD

If a cloud of smoke is following you, *usually* that is burning oil smoke. If it is oil, then you should be able to smell it pretty easily. Burning oil just flat out stinks..If its a really whitish color, then its coolant..but that type of smoke wont leave a big trail behind you..its just water vapor basically..Does this only happen when the motor is cold and warming up, or just when it idles? If its only when it idles, then i would guess valve stem seals, because thats when the motor is at is most vacuum..does it smoke when you let off the gas while you are in the higher rpm's? Usually most oil burning either comes from the piston rings, or the valve train..

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
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-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

UPDATE:
I had no smoke whatsoever yesterday and last night after class I went out to try and simulate the conditions last time it did. I was also going to put a piece of paper up to the exhaust when it smoked to check for residue, but fortunately had no luck there. Here's what happened.

1st - Engine warmed up from drive after class. Idled for >10min, NO A/C - no smoke, temp stable, idle normal

2nd - turned on A/C. Idled for >10min - no smoke, temp stable, idle normal

3rd - Left A/C on and drove around in commercial area reving to <4k between shifts. - no smoke, temp stable.

4th - Got tired of sitting in commercial park like a freak after dark and raced down the road, shifting at 5k. - no smoke, temp stable, then idled fine at intersection.


* I will see if run4cvr is feeling generous enough to let me borrow hiw torque wrench this Saturday sometime, so I can check torque on the head bolts. I still need to check the PCV and maybe I can talk John into letting me borrow his compression tester too. I will also pull and post pics of the plugs this weekend sometime.

Question: What kind of results should I see doing a comp test and leak down with <600 mi on new bottom end?


Thanks everyone!

id bet it was just your rings seating especialy right after startup...


see if it continues ill bet it wont id look at valve train if it does reeappear...

im not sure what #'s ud have at 600 miles depends if the rings seated yet or not..

just replace the 3$ pcv valve

Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

Do the rings "wiggle" around (lack of a better word) from time to time while they're getting seated? I had no smoke for over a week.

Maybe we'll have all the baby stuff purchased (received as gifts at Christmas) and I can use my tax return to get some mild headwork done.

I will still check the above items and post pics.

I'm also curious about when I can switch to the synthetic oil. I started with regular, changed after 1 week with regular, going to change in 2 weeks with regular, then change a month from then with regular. I can go 3000 until the next change after that and use the Mobil 1, right? TIA!

id recomend 3-5k on the motor before u change to synthetic

mobil 1
amsoil

are the brands i would use...

Bill

yes rings move in the cylinder bore they will spin on the pistons

Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

Cool.

Thanks for the input. I'll be retorquing the head and header in the morning. At that time, I will pull the plugs and post pics just in case. Still no smoke returning, but I haven't really let it sit and idle in the last couple days for very long...