I put the car back together this weekend.

Milled/ported and polished head (bought from kiku) Using a thinned copper headgasket, should have put the car in the 10.5:1+ range (probably around 11:1, but this is only a guse by my estimate of the milled, I should have cc'd the combustion chamber in the head)

She went back together without major incicent, I stopped work early on Saturday because the sawdust my Dad created by cutting plywood in the driveway kept blowing around and getting in my eyes.

So the moment of truth comes on Sunday. I start her up and she's running rough and smoking (no surprise, I spilled colant all over when filling the radiator). I shut it down and let the smoke clear, there was a lot. I start her up again and she's still running rough, doesn't want to idle, without being on the gas. I shut her down again.

Go to start her up a third time, and she just cranks... and cranking slower that she should, I know the increased compression will put extra load on the starter, but it seemed too slow.

So I put the battery charger on and battery starts to draw a full 10 amps from the charger. I swapped back to my stock TB, back to factory vaccum routing (no catch can). And have everythig set to go. I didn't have the heart to start her yesterday; and with my Dad milling about I didn't want to hear anything from him.

So I'll probably go home on my lunch hour and see what happens.

Here's my thoughts:.
Ideal situation: Battery was just too drained to hold enough current to keep the car running, explaingin rough running and idle.
Worst case: I have to tear the head off because the porting polic=shign and milling are too much and I won't be able to get a good idle out of it.
Middle ground: I've maxed out the fuel injectors and there's not enough fuel for her to run right. (310cc injects on backorder, I'm on will-call list)

Thought? ideas? Just want to tell me how dumb I am?... fire away.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

Well going that high on compression will yeild some wired things. Have you run the data logger on it yet? I wonder what you would see looking at the fuel trims. I doubt it's the batt. though as when it's running it should run on the ALT, but then again it is at idle so there will be some battery assist. I don't know man, what cams are you running in that monster?

I edited to the wiki!

Crower Stage 2, so there's some good overlap there.

I also have to look very closely at cam gears and maybe do some adjusting. I actually milled enough off with the thinner headgasket the timing basically came back because it was a full tooth difference in timing belt geometry. There may be a couple of degrees difference, if any.

I got the OBD-2 datalogger on Friday, but I need to get a male to female serial adapter before I can plug it in and see what she logged. in the maybe minute total she ran. If that doesn't work I'll need the adapter to USB.

And the battery idea is wishful thinking...



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

>Here's my thoughts:.
>Ideal situation: Battery was just too drained to hold enough
>current to keep the car running, explaingin rough running and
>idle.
>Worst case: I have to tear the head off because the porting
>polic=shign and milling are too much and I won't be able to
>get a good idle out of it.
>Middle ground: I've maxed out the fuel injectors and there's
>not enough fuel for her to run right. (310cc injects on
>backorder, I'm on will-call list)
>


My guess (and it's only a guess) is that it is either ideal or worst case. I don't hink at idle you'd max out the injectors, as at idle you don't need much fuel. The injectors can supply enough fuel (well, stock and a little more modded than stock) for 7000 rpm WOT operation, so at idle it should be an issue. I'd imagine even on a ported head with cams, it still wouldn't use that much fuel.

You have the adjustable cam gears, right? If your battery is at 100%, and the idle still sucks, try retarding the intake cam and advancing the exhaust cam just a degree or two. That should reduce overlap and help the idle.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

I was thinking about playing with the cam gears and seeing what I could do... once I've given her another start and seen what happens. Probably going to run home on lunch and see what happens when I turn the key, then decide on a course of action from there.

Any other ideas or thoughts?



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

done a compression test? Just to make sure everything is sealed up well. But I'm sure cam gear adjustments would do it a world of good.

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

I go home and build my nerve up, hehe.

Get in the car, turn the key, after a couple seconds of cranking, she turns over. Running rough and tries to die. I pull back the S-AFC until I'm around -12% at 1k. She idles and doesn't die. Still running rough... oh my the higher compression and porting really brings out the lope in the cams. So I go for a test run around the block (in case I need to push it back I want to be close). It wanted to pull off right away easier, could feel more power down low as I was releasing the clutch. Take her around, give a couple of good throttle runs. She felt stronger, but it's been a while since I drove her.

I come back in the driveway and let her idle some, then pul it back in. Once up to temp the coolant started to overflow. I had filled the overflow tank up more to accomodate air bubbles in the system. So hopefully it was just coolant coming up to temp and not the copper headgasket not sealing right.

Now I need to make sure the head gasket seals right (if not install an MLS gasket and go with slightly less compression). Figure out why my A/F Meter stopped working and get a new set of setting for my S-AFC. **edit* Also need to get the 55mm TB back on and get her to idle with that (always been harder)*

Once I get the adapter for the obd-2 datalogger cable I can see what the ECU is thinking and go from there. Yeah Thura, a compression test sounds like a wise idea. Overall I don't think that if there is a problem it will be a major one.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

Michael, I'm curious about how the HG seals. I decided to hold off on using the copper one I got from you because I barely want to change out the cams let alone the head and didn't want to run the risk of doing it more than once in case it didn't seal.

Glad she's running. Can't wait to see her tuned up and rearing to go. DYNO DYNO DYNO!!!

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

>Michael, I'm curious about how the HG seals. I decided to
>hold off on using the copper one I got from you because I
>barely want to change out the cams let alone the head and
>didn't want to run the risk of doing it more than once in case
>it didn't seal.
>
>Glad she's running. Can't wait to see her tuned up and
>rearing to go. DYNO DYNO DYNO!!!

lol, you paying for the dyno my friend :p

I'll keep you posted, I'll have more free time to deal with it this weekend and through out next week. I think sealing will be more a matter of preppi the gasket, head and block. Plus I think a healthy use of the copper gasket spray would help... I don't think I used enough. I had doubts once I plopped the head down, but it was too late then. I also put the head down with maybe 30 minutes of cure time on the spray, could have been better if sat overnight.

I did let the head sit on it at only 10 ft-lbs overnight before I did the final torqueing.

Either way I'll keep you all posted.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

Sounds good Mike. Keep us updated!

No problem with the timing belt, right? (just shooting some stuff out there);-)

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

sounds like a timing issue to me. Having the head milled, and using a thinner HG, will make the alignment of the cam timing marks difficult, or impossilbe, without using adj cam gears. So i suggest that you play around with the cam gears and see what happens..I doubt the HG isnt sealing right.. Good job though man!

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Actually the combination of milled head and thin gasket caused the timing belt to be almost exactly 1 tooth off. I may advance the cam gears a degree or two, maybe advance the intake a couple more and see how it effects the power band, take a little overlap out.

But overall my big concern here is that the head gasket sealed. The other stuff I can sort out and get tuned in. Especially now that my datalogger is here Going to get the adpater I need to plug the cable into the laptop, and I can see what she's doing.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

So your timing belt IS one tooth off?

I'd get that back in time.

And as for that copper gasket sealing. I know I mentioned it before, but you may really need to have your block O-ringed to make that HG work, if sealing becomes a problem. Either that, or take out a couple layers of the MLS Mopar HG.

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

I actually removed to o-ring from the head because I didn't have a receiver groove in the block.

What I'm saying about the timing belt is that there was enough milled off that it changed timing belt geometry by one tooth. So the motor can back to almost perfect timing. There may have been a degree or two, tops, difference. So the motor should be in time, with only a VERY minor difference, if any.

Had there been a great difference I would have adjusted the cam gears off the bat, but I put the motor in time and all the marks really lined up.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

Ahhh! I get ya now. I wonder how much it could throw it off. I mean, even with milling, I can't imagine that shaving would cause that significant of a difference. But ya never know...

Keep us updated!

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

I'm speaking from my expierences here, just suggestions and comments. I rebuilt my head using a similiar setup as yours; Crower 2s, new retainers and springs, oversized SS valves, 3 angle valve job, and had the head milled to .036" (I think, I'll have to look at the spec sheet), basically everything was replaced like you did. I'm running AEM gears btw. My car ran really rough for about the first week, we had a hard time getting the timing right and the ECU had a REALLY hard time attepting to adjust. After about a week of tuning and cussing, the car really started to run great. I don't know if it was because we finally found the timing, or because the ECU finally adjusted. I do know this, once the car was running good, the first few times I really got on it, it wanted to fall flat on it's face. After 4 or 5 tries it suddenly could handle it and pulled to redline. I don't know our ECU capabilities, but I swear this thing was just having a hard time learning new curves, it was like it needed to be in Special ED It'll work out soon, keep trying.

Custom Computers
http://www.virtual-octane.net

Did you ever get her to the track?

I'll know more, probably after the weekend. I'll feel better if a compression test give me steady consistant numbers, and no coolant overflows, no coolant in oil or vise versa. Then I'll work on my fuel trims.

I need to get a serial to USB adapter for the datalogger. I thought it just needed a female to female serial adapter... turns out my quick glance at the back of teh laptop, it was the monitor output (feel stupid? yes I do). So I'm running on lunch to see if I can pick one up locally or if I'll have to order one off the web.

Either way I'll keep you all posted I'm excited to get some road time on the built up top end.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

THe cams go on tomorrow. FInally I'll be able to take advantage of that built head of mine!!!!!!

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft