Heres the deal. I got a 3 angle valve job when I got my rebuild done. I have 100 miles on the engine and I am getting a bad idle. It is as if I have cams. It almost wants to die when I let off the gas and put it in neutral. I had 2 diffffferent people working on ym engine. The machine shop and the mechanic shop. The mechanic pulled the engine and the machine shop did the 3 angle valve job and assembled the head to the block. The mechanic put the timing belt on for me and put the engine back in. Heres the timing situation...

The machine shop guy put 2 little scratches on the cam gears where they are supposed to line up. I dont know why he just didnt use the notches that are already there. But anyway the mechanic put the timing belt on and I just took a look at the cam gears through the little window thing and I dont see scrathes on any of the gears and the stock notches are not lined up at all. But I dont think they are supposed to be becuase the machine shop guy made the notches for where it is supposed to line up. I am going to take it back to the mechanic to see what he says about it. Is it possible to set the timing without taking off the head if you have no idea where the cam gears are supposed to go? Do you just take the valve cover off and set it? I hope they can do this for me becuase my car sounds like shit right now at idle. I would like to learn more about this whole timing thing.

Dave
05 Ford F150 SuperCrew FX4

yea you can remove the gears and timing belt with the head still on, i did.
but it could also be your new engine breaking in thats causeing the crappy idel. mine got noticably better after about 600 miles (when i think the rings seated)

MIne has improved a little since I first got it back. I hope its just that. But I dont think it is cuz the gears are off.

Dave
05 Ford F150 SuperCrew FX4

I don't know jack about timeing, but I have oposit problem, but there is a small leak around my butter-fly in my throttle body. A few quick thoughts. Idel set to low, may be bugging out. Fule curve correct. And is Idol sensor in good condition and have good seal. And are injectors matched to engine mods, but I could be way off, just a few to check.

they are stupid for making marks on your gears since they should know there are marks already! if the STOCK notchs are Not lined up then your car will idle like shit. mine was not lined up and my idle was a bit weird but not to the extent of it sounding like cams... ask them or someone else who knows about cars...




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Michael
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I have no idea why they made their own marks,they must have not know that there were some already..Bottom line, if the stock marks aren't lining up, then your timing is off. You will need to take off the timing belt, or at least loosen the tensioner, and when the belt is loose enough to turn the cam gear by itslef, and not hanging up on the belt, is all you need to do to set the timing. In order to get at the tensioner to loosen/take off the belt, you will need to take off the crank pulley, the timing belt front cover, the motor mount bracket, and acc drive belts. Basically everything needs to be taken off as when doing a timing belt change. Once the tensioner is loosened, the timing belt can come off, and the cam gears can be rotated to line up the marks on them. Then install the timing belt, set the proper tension on the tensioner, then check to be sure the stock timing marks still line up after at least 2 full revolutions of the crank. A lot of work for not lining up the marks right the first time. Take it back to whoever did it, they should take care of it.

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Actually, the AEM Cam Gears are off. They are not correct, and are about a 1/2 tooth off. If you have stock gears, though, this does not apply. The best way to re-index the AEM gears is to put and line up the AEM on top of the stock gear, and mark on the AEM where the timing marks are on the stocker.
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They should definately NOT be marking up the stockers and they should take care of it for you.

The marks should line up exactly. It sounds like you can see the original marks. You need to turn on the crankshaft nut clockwise until they are as close together as possible. Then look for the marks again. Your mechanic may have put them in the groove area, or maybe the were in pen?

Thats all there is to set the timing on our cars. The crank angle sensor and camshaft position sensors are used to calculate the static timing. The computer advances the timing based on input from alot of other sensors. I think the manual is the best read for the ignition system on our cars.

Good luck


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They DO in fact have to remark the gears. I had to have mine realigned. The AEM are setup for Neons which are not the same as ours.

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

^^ Thats for Adjustable cam gears, it sounds like he is still using the stock ones. Did you maybe get the head milled a bit?? Then they would have to adjust the marks

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Mods are:
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I got the head resurfaced. Does that make a difference? I talked to my mechanic today and he said to drive it untill about 400 miles then if it still has a problem then bring it to him and he could adjust the timing and check it out.

Dave
05 Ford F150 SuperCrew FX4

ask him to check it now...it takes less then 15mins to see if its align or not...



Michael 99gs
HRC Stage 2
http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

Michael
99gs hrc stage 5000 SOLD...
2004 Honda Accord V6 (240 hp)stock
what other car should i buy?? hmmm
Car info & pictures at http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/520269

The AEM gears need to have new marks put on them. I had to do the install TWICE because of that.

Also, the 3 angle valve job, did they open up the ports on the head alot? IF they did alot of porting I'd expect the idle to be shitty from that alone.

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Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

That might be so. I am going to call the machine shop up and see what they say. But I still have the 43 CEL which has to be the timing. I already checked out the ignition and it is fine.

Dave
05 Ford F150 SuperCrew FX4

The 43 may also be from rough idle due to porting? That's what mine is (or maybe because the head is milled). Either way, if I drive and leave the AC on to smooth out the idle, I almost never get the CEL, but I get the 43 whenever the idle gets really rough (like every other day).

________________________________________

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I'd definitly bring it back to the mechanic to check it out. The problem probably lies with the crankshaft though, it the cams were that far out of alignment with the marks you'd be bending the valves. I found out the hard way and most mechanics i asked didn't know either that when you make sure the cam marks are together the crankshaft mark has to be about a 1/2 tooth back from the mark so when you apply the tension to the tensioner it will align the crankshaft to the mark on the block. That way when you rotate the engine around the crank should be pointing at the upper mark on the block and the cam marks should be pointing at each other. Mine was a half tooth off on the crankshaft when we did the timing belt and even though it ran, it sounded like it had cams in it and idled like crap. If you get the crankshaft too far out of alignment it will light the check engine light also and it confuses the computer so bad that it can't even be scanned. I tried autozone and the dealership before they told me it was because the timing was off. Hope this helps.

Yes the timing on the crank should be 1/2 a tooth off before applying the tensioner. as far as needing adjustment for a milled head. no the tensioner will take up for that. if you have a 3 angle valve job that will flow more air but prolly not enough to give you a light. we didnt even get a light after a ported mani and head with a new valve job. the timing is most likely off form when you had it done by joe shmo. Hell i dont even trust the local dealer to touch my car. you cant just go by the marks on your cams either. they can be aligned fine but if the crank is off a tooth you will never know it unless you remove your pully and cover (again)...it sucks ...but that IMO is where your problem is