I figured i'd post this here since i also posted it on ASOG.
I have a spare 1996 Dodge avenger (http://www.asog.net/kiku/awdavenger) that is stripped and I plan on turning into a NASA road racing type of car. Its a project car, thus no emissions limits. Initial plans is to fully roll-cage it, remove the whole stock wiring harnesses, and run a standalone in it.
With that said, please dont post if you dont know anything about these kind of conversions. I would like to start a knowledgeable discussion about possible 4g63/AWD conversion into the FJ dodge/chrysler body (and possibly the 2gnt eclipses too). Suggestions that say "yeah it should fit" is of no interest to me. I want hard facts and knowledge.
My initial research yields that this is possible, but I am having a bitch of a time finding a spare 2g AWD crossmember (front and/or back) to do initial fitting and testing.
My measurements on the REAR crossmember on the Dodge Avenger comes out as follows:
1) The rear crossmember is bolted by 4 protruding studs coming out of the core body/chassis. Each side of the car has 2 studs that bolt onto the cross member. Each stud within the pair is exactly 8" apart from the other instance and the pair is longitudinal (sp?) comparing to the body (meaning the are positioned alongside to the car i.e. one stud is closer to the front of the car, the second is closer to the rear of the car).
2) The 2 stud pairs are opposite from eachother exactly 36" (end to end).
Now I need to find out if the 2nd Generation AWD cars have similar bolt patterns for the cross-member, and if not, i'll need to find out what kind of fabrication is needed.
I also just got off the phone from a DSMtrader guy who has the rear K-crossmember from a 95 AWD eclipse and I had him measure the bolt holes that mount to the body, the same holes i mentioned previously about the avenger.
Basically, its the same 4-bolt design, but unfortunately, each pair of bolts is 15" apart from eachother, and each pair is 40" apart for each - 7" longer and 4" wider than the avenger.
Now, that doesnt mean this conversion is not possible. I just need to go back tonite and measure the new bolt positions, and see where they would end up and what kind of fabrication is needed.
I also want to look at a 1997 eclipse AWD to see if the suspension mounting points changed (i dont know exactly when there were body changes between the 1st gen and 2nd gen)
I'll post the pictures comparing the two cross-member (its NOT to scale) so you can get the idea.
_________________ Vinnie Lima kiku@asog.net AIM: Kiku888 1997 Chrysler Sebring "Silver XTC" I4 420a w/ HRC Stage 2.45 w/ FMIC 14.7@97 mph@6psi Proud member of the ASOG BoOsT JuNkIe Crew
_________________ Vinnie Lima vlima@csc.com AIM: Kiku888 1997 Chrysler Sebring "Silver XTC" I4 420a w/ HRC Stage 2.45 w/ FMIC 14.7@97 mph@6psi Proud member of the ASOG BoOsT JuNkIe Crew
#26383, "RE: FWD to AWD conversion discussion" In response to Reply # 0
if you do it, do a write up so 2g eclipses can do it
turbo8u: "jiggle jiggle then vroom vroom pshhhh" -Mike Pruett 2gnt member# 976 MOPAR Stage 2 SRTForums.com member #37 (Yeah, I signed up when it first came out, and ended up getting one, cool huh?) "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." - General George Patton (1885-1945)
#26386, "RE: FWD to AWD conversion discussion" In response to Reply # 3
Road//Race did it to a FWD Spyder (www.stocksypder.com). Give them a call and ask them about it. I seem to remember something about having to relocate those studs you speak of, but on the DSM platform the holes were already in place, just hidden. I am not sure about your platform.
______________________________ If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.
'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco) '95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor) '97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control) '99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater) '13 Evo X (mostly stock) '17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)
#26387, "RE: FWD to AWD conversion discussion" In response to Reply # 4
haha.. i know someone that knows how and is seriously thinking about doing it.... i dont think he wants me to talk about it, so hopefully he will come in and discuss.
#26388, "RE: FWD to AWD conversion discussion" In response to Reply # 5
Well, I was talking to Josiah about this a few nights ago, only we were discussing the use of a 420a and a Lancer EVO transmission and driveline. With the use of a mating collar, the EVO transmission should be able to be bolted up. If so, the driveline is at least mostly compatable with a DSM, but I do not know a whole lot about the A/S platforms. Best of luck, and keep us informed! Thanks! -=B-=
Dude, Boeing called. They want their wing back.
Dark0ne95: There is a butthole on that girl that his going to feel the wrath of 23 yeras of worldwide hate. Me: Can I put that in my sig? Dark0ne95: GO right fucking ahead.
#26389, "RE: FWD to AWD conversion discussion" In response to Reply # 6
That is interesting...the bolts already being in place would make sense. I need to take the stock crossmember off as it would be covering up the non-used holes.
I'll give RRE a call..but I dont expect them to give me any kind of information....i know how those shops are =/
Here is a picture comparing the stock Avenger cross member with the AWD one. I assume its the same as the 2gnt's
_________________ Vinnie Lima kiku@asog.net AIM: Kiku888 1997 Chrysler Sebring "Silver XTC" I4 420a w/ HRC Stage 2.45 w/ FMIC 14.7@97 mph@6psi Proud member of the ASOG BoOsT JuNkIe Crew
_________________ Vinnie Lima vlima@csc.com AIM: Kiku888 1997 Chrysler Sebring "Silver XTC" I4 420a w/ HRC Stage 2.45 w/ FMIC 14.7@97 mph@6psi Proud member of the ASOG BoOsT JuNkIe Crew
#26390, "like The1Bill said..." In response to Reply # 7
...I also think this would be the best setup. Since you're deciding a lot about a partial fab on some of this somethings you would have to consider are a custom driveshaft leading to the rear incase the chassis is too long and an adapter plate for the trasnny to bolt to the 420a (unless you choose a 4G block), it's not too difficult to do either. I've had 4G-63T and a 420a. Personally I would go with the newer engine. In terms of maintanance several things are easier to do as well. We tossed around the idea of the Chrys AWD platform but they do not have the refinement to accept real HP, at least not like the Evo setup. We also chose the Evo because the timing belt and the trany mount to it on the same side as it does on the 420a block and tranny. All in all we were refering to the setup using the 420a of coarse. It would certainly be a nice idea. RRE can fad a lot so try not to underestimate them either if you need a source. I remeber seeing them bolt the 4G into a Hyundai Elentra (then I thought to myself why bastardize the DSMs that way).
*Skrilla "Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me" Talon: 1st 2.4L '97 Prelude '04 350Z
Originally posted by YourInMyMirror95GS dick teaser's should be rounded up and shot in the forehead
Originally posted by etx Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!
Originally posted by Dark0ne Thanks. Now excuse me while i fuck your sister.
#26391, "RE: like The1Bill said..." In response to Reply # 8
I really like the idea of the EVO driveline, as it has the active differentials... Wonder how to get them to work... Anyways, the Elantra has a Mitsu motor, or at least a Mitsu-based motor. A 4G63 is actually a pretty straightforward swap for the Hyundais. -=B-=
Dude, Boeing called. They want their wing back.
Dark0ne95: There is a butthole on that girl that his going to feel the wrath of 23 yeras of worldwide hate. Me: Can I put that in my sig? Dark0ne95: GO right fucking ahead.
#26392, "RE: FWD to AWD conversion discussion" In response to Reply # 7
Thats cool man. My brother-in-law is drawing a Craftsman series race truck, and I'm going to come up with the engine specs and all. I didn't know anyone was building this stuff. Sounds like an awesome project.
#26393, "RE: FWD to AWD conversion discussion" In response to Reply # 10
Seems like everything else is the same except if you notice, the 4 chassis mounting points for the crossmembers are different.
Check out ASOG under High Octane forum, we are discussing a way to fab an extension of the mounting point as the AWD crossmember mounting points are going to fall outside of the chassis channels so 2 additional channels will be needed to support the AWD crossmember on a dodge avenger.
The good news that I see on the picture above is that the strut hat and other suspension mounting points seem to be the same from eyeball.
_________________ Vinnie Lima kiku@asog.net AIM: Kiku888 1997 Chrysler Sebring "Silver XTC" I4 420a w/ HRC Stage 2.45 w/ FMIC 14.7@97 mph@6psi Proud member of the ASOG BoOsT JuNkIe Crew
_________________ Vinnie Lima vlima@csc.com AIM: Kiku888 1997 Chrysler Sebring "Silver XTC" I4 420a w/ HRC Stage 2.45 w/ FMIC 14.7@97 mph@6psi Proud member of the ASOG BoOsT JuNkIe Crew
#26394, "RE: FWD to AWD conversion discussion" In response to Reply # 11
ok, yeah they are a bit different. I think JaddedSilver has some good ideas about welding in some frame support to get it to work. Just make sure that weather you weld on more frame or rework the crossmember itself - everything's got to line up perfect or your going to be goin down the road sideways.
good luck
**edit oh yeah - you could try scouring Airport Road for a donor. just a thought.
#26395, "RE: FWD to AWD conversion discussion" In response to Reply # 10
Have you ever noticed that the AWD Eclipse has less trunk/hatch space than a FWD Eclipse? The floor of the hatch where the spare tire sits seems to be higher than the floor of a FWD. I was comparing my stereo system one night with one out of an AWD and the AWD guy's subs sat a lot higher even though his box was smaller in height. It seems like there is a difference in the chassis between both cars in the hatch. I also believe the gas tanks are different. This is all considering the Eclipse, I am not sure about the obstacles for an Avenger, but I assume they will be similar.
-Jared 96 GS Melbourne, FL
Iceman CAI | RS*R Cat-Back | AFX Pully | Milled Head 10:1 CR | MP 60mm TB
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Anyways, the Elantra has a Mitsu motor, or at least a Mitsu-based motor. A 4G63 is actually a pretty straightforward swap for the Hyundais.
