If you have seen them in nopi then you are aware. If not there is now a throttle body spacer for our cars, and it is sprled on the inside. I have one on my car as a prototype in a 55mm bore when they did my throttle body. It is inexpensive and a very easy install. The kit comes with everything you need to do the job, minus your tolls of course, but you may need a tourqe wrench if you don't have one. I was suprised at the effect it gave my car. I gained about 12 hp at the wheels from the bore and the spacer. Mine was free, but for about $150.00 ,maybe cheeper. The spacer is a good bolt on for the price. Beaware though, it does make a slight whisling noise, but if you work your foot right on the gas, people mistake it for a turbo. Also beware that it does make air intakes a little tricky to get in, best to pull battery all the way and shave a little off the intake just get your messurements right. They are working on a new intake for my car that has the right bends for the helix coil, so the intake is in the right spot and does not rub the battery.
Anyone else have one or what does everyone think.

I just looked out on Nopi and can't find anything about a TB spacer. If you have a part number or can attach a link, it would be good for everyone.

97 Eclipse GS-15.463@88.57MPH - RIP
92 Talon TSi AWD-12.927@105.47MPH

When you go to nopi type (20045) in the search and that should come up. Talked to the maker after I got your message, it is for the neon but fits our cars of course, but may need to double check the bolt lengths and throttle cable spacer, had to shave a very little amount off the throttle adjuster to get it to sit right on my car. And its a lot cheeper than I thought they were going to be, only $81.00. Hows that sound.

That sounds great, but where exactly did you get the 12hp value for a gain? Is that the advertised gain? Or did you actually get that from the dyno?

97 Eclipse GS-15.463@88.57MPH - RIP
92 Talon TSi AWD-12.927@105.47MPH

A 12hp gain?? I realize this is with the spacer and the bore together but that is hard to take seriously. I mean just browse through ebay, you have timing advance kits that give "20 hp" and those damn intake inserts that spiral the air. I need to see hard evidence before I would invest in something like this. Like a dyno sheet

...because all I smell is Bullshit, unless I see proof. I've seen this posted before and 12HP at the wheels is equivelant to 15-17 additional crank HP at 15-21% drivetrain loss. That is just BULLSHIT. 12WHP from 1 modifcation is only accomplishable through a cheater kit of NOS 1lb of boost or the AFX UDP. So again I say this is bullshit. Someone please post the flag. This is an old trick muscle cars use when their mass amounts of cubic inches help produce the extra power from stronger breathing from lengthening their intake track. But you're talking about 9% more power from a 2L using this method and it just won't happen unless you're using a rediculous amount of spacer, and we're talking in feet.

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

I was extremely skeptical when I read this. I would expect very minimal Hp gains on a dyno. The power "feel" may be great with the larger TB, but I wouldn't expect much real power gain. And I would expect next to nothing resulting from this spiraling spacer.


Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Corbin
'97 GSX dressed like a '95 ESi

Im not going to said your lying, becuase I never have try the product.
But, i think, with the spacer and 55 TB, maybe about 5-7 hp at the engine. What do you guys think?

------------------------------

i dont think the gains would even be that high... to create 5-7hp on our cars is very hard to do with two products, let alone one... maybe with boost, but still.....

^^what once was^^


^^what is now.. and permanently^^

I called Mike Esch this morning and asked the same questions all of you did again this morning. He stated again that it provides anywhere from 10-12 hp and 12-14 lbs on the dyno in back of there shop. Then he said that if you have a $40,000.00 dyno in back of your place put it on it. But he also stated that if you don't like it send it back for a full refund, no BS. Even if the color is not right or for any reason. They do dyno everything, even my car and that is how I knew. All the people in Little Rock, AR are using them because we prototyped them for these cars. You name the car they have one for it. They also just cut a deal to have their product in the new Fast and Ferious, like it makes a hill of beans, and yes my spelling sucks. But the point is They where put on the dyno and it helps out in the 3000-6500 rpm range, but if you don't think its worth it send the damn thing back and get your money back. You have nothing to lose, but maybe a little time. We all love ours here and it runs great. If you have questions e-mail and I will try to help futher. Hell if you have a friend who has a different car, talk them into and play with theres then get your own. And NO I do not work for this company I just thought some of you may like to know of a good thing.

If you would, ask them for the dyno sheet and post that bad-boy on here. Or email it to me and I will post it. I don't buy into the he said/she said stuff until I see hard evidence. Hey, if this product is proven to work then I will gladly put it on my car, but until then I will have to pass.

"...when they did my throttle body...I gained about 12 hp at the wheels from the bore and the spacer..."

Thats great, and I agree with most of the BS flaggers - all(or 99%) of your new power is from the bored TB. Ask them to dyno with the spacer and then again without it. Make sure to use the same 55mm TB on both tests. Otherwise it's simply not what we want to know, which is: How much gain from JUST the spacer?


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Gude cams : test pipe : AFX UDP : ram air : Thrush glasspack : Dual air horns : Kenwood KDC 5000 : AutoCommand remote start
incomming - lower strut bars

95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
14.76 @ 94.72mph
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

Mike is going to e-mail the dyno results, and hopfuly I will have them up soon. Not the best computer wiz in the world, so give me a break. About the spacer, I hope he does not turn mw into a layer cause I have just relayed what they told me. And the 10-12hp gain was on a none bored throttle body. Mike told me some saw as much as a 15hp gain, but the turbos showed less in the 6-8hp range. It functions in two ways. 1, it lets the fuel and air mix better before it is burned and 2, it does creat a vortex effect sucking in more air. But on a turbo it is weakened dur to the push of the turbo. On an LT-1 Vet they saw 20+hp gains, but just started the euro about 6 months ago. Im not sure if they used a neon or an eclipse for the dyno but it is the same motor so I hope you all are not pissed. But on the other hand Someone please read my other entry "header noise" and offer any advice, Its driving me mental.

Since you're new, I don't want you to get the wrong impression. We're not trying to be hard on you or anything, just skeptical of these gains. After we see a dyno sheet, we'll be less skeptical. This is a contraversial topic that we've seen before.


Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Corbin
'97 GSX dressed like a '95 ESi

Mike told me this would happen cause of the other crap people have tryed, should have listened. As soon as I get the results I'll send them, but they test everything they make pretty well. He is a stright shooter and I told they for the work they have done on my car I would try to give them some credit. I can tell you that they do a lot, but they said the tonnado is bull ship and so is the Jet chip.

I’m just very skeptical of these things.

In all of my fluids and thermodynamics courses I was always told that when moving a fluid through a pipe you want a laminar (smooth and straight) flow for the best flow. How is a small piece of tubing (the inside of the spacer is the tube I’m referring to) with helical grooves supposed to improve flow? If does anything it’s going to introduce turbulence into the airflow. In carbureted cars introducing turbulence can increase performance because the turbulence helps mix the air and fuel as it makes it’s way through the manifold. But our cars are fuel injected. The fuel is introduced immediately before the valves.

To me this just sounds like another one of those products that relies on the lack of knowledge of other people.

Unless I saw the Dyno test personally I wouldn’t trust this thing.

I’m sure all of the new peppiness you’re feeling is coming from the bored throttle body (better flow).

-J

>It functions in two
>ways. 1, it lets the fuel and air mix better before it is
>burned and 2, it does creat a vortex effect sucking in more
>air.

How does it let the air and fuel mix better?? I would assume you would mean because there is more air that the air/fuel ratio would be better so we don't run as rich. And like corbin said, we are not trying to bust your chops here. Just trying to get everything straight.

the air/fuel mixing better is crap. that would only apply to throttle body injection engines, not standard multiport injection engines, being that the the fuel doesn't even get added to the air stream until right before it enters the cylinder. these products have been talked about before and have been shown by MANY magazines to be false gains.

P.S. I think you guys are going a little easy on this person just cause their screen name is 'angel' hahaha..

in response to squid:

correct me if im wrong but i think the helix groove is kind of like the twist tube piping done on some custom turbo setups. it is supposed to work like a vaccum and helps with the turbo. although its pretty useless on the throttle body spacer because you do not need a turbo to spool up. i think the helix groove is made to make people think it will help you out

i work with alot of people who are into customizing trucks and some of them have a throttle body spacer on their trucks. but then again their engines are throttle body injected. also they get more torque gains out of it as opposed to horsepower gains.

in my opinion i dont think the throttle body spacer will do much for our cars, but then again thats just my opinion

Yeah, people used a product called poweraid on their trucks. But, i think the MOST they gain is about 3 hp, with just the spacer.

------------------------------

HybridAutoX I'm not sure what twist tube piping you're referring to is. I'm never seen it. It’s probably just for show. But in general when dealing with piping you want to keep the tubing as straight as possible and with the same cross-sectional area. And if you're going to have a bend you want to make the radius as large as possible. The smaller the turn radius the more of a pressure drop you're going to have.

You also want to keep the cross-section constant. It’s fairly obvious that a smaller cross-section will result in a pressure drop but going to a bigger cross-section will also result in a pressure drop.

-J

its not actually the piping that is twisted, thats just what i have heard it called. and yes with the tube it is kept as straight as possible. its the inside of the tube that i'm talking about. it has those helix grooves going around on the outer wall of the inside of the piping. ( its kind of hard to explain )and it just spirals the air through the piping and instead of going to the spool of the turbo head on and spinning it, it comes on a bit of an angle and helps it spin better.

here is a link to show you kind of what i'm talking about
http://www.morriscoupling.com/productinfo/heligroove.html

Quote:
"Internal spiral grooved straight tube and pipe bends increase turbulence of materials passing through the system to reduce clogging due to angel hair or stringers. "

The air wants to go straight and the spiral grooves will not induce the air to spin. What will happen is something like hitting a speed bump at and angle. Turbulence is bad in a piping system unless you're trying to mix the fluid that is running through the pipes or you're trying to keep something that is suspended in the fluid (fuel) from sticking to the walls.

-J

Unless you are trying to move the air in a sertain direction for an diseried effect. I the groves guid the air in the manifold like a bowling ball shoot. This way when the valve opens it is forced in a little faster. The helix coil does this, and was orginaly designed by chevy, and is based on the same principal. We know it as the Votec engine.

So were are these dyno #'s?

Well, ther is no dyno for our cars, and they did not print out mine on my car. There is for the neon, but I cross bread the neon spacer and the mitsu throttle cable adjuster. There still working on the exact kit for our car I just found this out yesterday. BUT, I do have one better. Being the honest person I am, and wanting to solve this problem I talked to Skrilla via e-mail. I am sending my old one to him with Street and Performances permission to run it on his car. Since his is beefed up he may see more than stock gains. So, don't get excited if he shows a gain of more than 10-12hp, I know I'll be shock but who knows. If he shows none I'm jumping from the TCBY tower here in the rock (just kidding). The people at Street and Performance told me not to worry, they think everyone will be inpressed with the cost vs. hp out put. So, we'll see what Skrilla has to say. And I want to thank him for doing this reguardless of the out come. I know I can feel a difference before and after the spacer. By the way, I had the spacer before I bored the throttle body. I still adds quite a bit. I would say that no one needs to get it right know because ,like i said, they don't have the kit ready for our cars, but it should be ready soon. Skrilla sould recive the box by friday, I hope, and we should know something by the end of next week, If he has time. I'm sure he does have other things to do than save my butt. Anyway, there are very confident in there product and they dyno everything they make so I think everyone will be happy. And for as far as dyno results go they said we could put a 17" tire for a baseline then put my 14" tires back on and really get great results. What I'm trying to say is that dyno results over the internet are bull shit. You were not there, so how do you know there not false. Your taking the persons word, just as I have done about the spacer. I asked ya'll to take my word, but sence I'm new no one will give it a shot, so I'm calling my own bluff you could say. Everyone trust Skrilla, so I'm sending it to him, and he has access to a dyno. Maybe after this, there will be a little more trust in me. I know you have to earn it, so I'm going to do everything I can to prove this product. There will still be some that are not happy, but they can go *@#& them selfs as far as I'm conserned. If you like it keep it, and if you don't send the dame thing back. So, till I here from Skrilla end of debt, because no one is going to give it a try and dynos from me can be forged, so lets here from someone ya'll trust. Its the most honest and farest way and that is what I want. No bull shit here, just though some may have been interested. Did not know I was going to stur up a shit storm, ooops.

well... at least you are letting someone from the board dyno it.. and skirlla is a good guy and will give his results honestly.. however, he is a 2.4 and the gains WILL be more significant than the 2.0.. wouldnt it make sense to give it to someone that is closest to stock as possible? that would show the true gains from just the spacer... just my 2

^^what once was^^


^^what is now.. and permanently^^

Skrilla vol. and had a dyno close. At least this will prove it works. Everyones results will be different. Stock is 10-12 hps, but at Street and Perfoemance they say as much as 18hp gain on one ,1, car. So, there will be exceptions. Skrilla may see a 13-15hp gain, will see what happens. My point is to prove it works at this point. Plus we will get to see what it does on a 2.4L and maybe everyone else can talk to him and try to get him to try it on another car that is stock, I not going to ask to much, plus if he likes it he can keep it.

...My friend has a bolted black 2L so I'll see about his as well.

Can't wait!!

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

Thanks to the us postal service your test subject sould be there Friday or no later than Saturday. Have fun this weekend and send me an e-mail with the results before you post them so I'll know if I should be prepared to get beat down. And before everyone see them I want to be sure that Street and Performance has an exact kit for our cars ready, so I can post the exact Part #. The neon kit is missing the Throttle Adj. plate. I put my phone number in the box, so if you need something give me a call. I'll get your number and call you right back with free nation wide calling so it does not cost you anything.

...I'll email you the results 1st. I'm genuinly interested in some REAL numbers.

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

Any new updates?!!!

...I haven't sent Angel an email yet.

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!