if you guys havent read my other post, the auto in my i4 began slipping like crazy today. looks like i will have to either rebuild or replace.

since im paying this time around, im either going to da a 5 spd swap or a performance rebuild.

i was wondering if anyone had a complete list of parts needed to do the 5 spd swap.

anyone know the difference in cost between these two options? any benefits that arent obvious to one or the other?

thanks guys!



http://www.groundfloormotorsports.com

95 Avenger
ATX->MTX Swap
Holset HX40 @ 26 psi

a 5 speed swap if done by your self will run u anywhere from 1100 to 1500 bucks ... now if a shop does it ..your looking at 3000 with labor thats just insane ~!!~ the benefits are of course in the auto cross having the abiltiy to downshift helps alot ~!!~ where in an auto you would need to buy stock in aem big brakes !!~~!! a level 10 tuned auto basically kills a manual .. not badly but it is faster on the quater ... u figure a flywheel and clutch for a manual is around $800 ..the tq converter(3500 stall speed ...ours is 2200) and pts kit is around $1150.. u will shift faster and harder and have a new top speed ..but the reliablity is unknown. what is known is that the fastest quater racers use autos



oRACLe
nGk Plugs ( watch out now )
AeM ShoRt RaM
UnOrThAdOx RaCiNg PuLLeY
BrAnD SpAnKiNg NeW TrAnnY ( 405 miles )
MoDDed EUrO TaIlS
SToCk 14" Rims ( gotta have these )
StOck MuffLer ( rust included )

i am looking into doing the same thing
if i did level 10 tune mine i would need to know that if i pushed it like you can a manual how long is it gonna last me. also would it be worth the money. right now i have a friend (pro mechanic) that will do the whole thing for 2,000 parts included. should i do this or should i get some shit from level 10 and go that route?

Talon
97'Talon Esi
Smokin' Honduh's All Day Long!

i should also say that both are unreliable .. think about it ... u have no real assurance that the swap was done correctly .. but i think level 10 warranties it parts .. that the plus side .. i want an auto monster myself ... but hey do what u guys want !!@!! hands free ripping !! the auto way @@!~!@@


oRACLe
nGk Plugs ( watch out now )
AeM ShoRt RaM
UnOrThAdOx RaCiNg PuLLeY
BrAnD SpAnKiNg NeW TrAnnY ( 405 miles )
MoDDed EUrO TaIlS
SToCk 14" Rims ( gotta have these )
StOck MuffLer ( rust included )

...I REALLY need to make a few clarifications, such as an automatic being quicker than a manual - NO WAY - .

It is a sales pitch! The only autos that are faster are electrohydraulics, such as the 10,000 "F1" tranny option for Ferraris and they really are MANUALS that are CLUTCH operated with with circuitry and hydralics (about the only thing faster than your left foot). Taking the 2GNT Auto tranny and suping up the shifting qualities just aren't enough to make up for the TC fluidic powerloss when engaging a gear or the fact that the autos carry more weight (like 50-100 pounds more) or that their gears are taller. That is 3 things working against them and quicker shifting can't make up for that. Did you know that at speeds approaching 150mph a car requires 3 times the power it did to reach 100mph. 150mph is pretty fast but the autos can't even do that, they are stuck with 130. I would have to conclude that the auto - might - Beat/Tie with the stick to the quarter but terminal speed would come at the benifit to the stick in payment of 150mph, with better gas economy to boot, and engine control through the twisties.

With every car company in the world making their flagship sports cars mostly made in sticks the answer for ultimate performance should be simple. I know that MPG isn't important to wealthy people(Well maybe but I'm not 1) but I would prefer at least another 50 - 100 mile in my 5L+ gas guzzler's STICK!

Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology: The Only Replacement for Displacement"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

skrills .. with the addition of the tq converter they stated that the top speed would be increased .... i might as well just go ahead and do this and see .. its only 500 so with that in mind skrills do u think its safe just to upgrade the tq converter or do the pts kit as well? my new tranny only has 858 miles on it and its teeth are dying to clamp some gears lol

oRACLe
nGk Plugs ( watch out now )
AeM ShoRt RaM
UnOrThAdOx RaCiNg PuLLeY
BrAnD SpAnKiNg NeW TrAnnY ( 858 miles )
MoDDed EUrO TaIlS
SToCk 14" Rims ( gotta have these )
StOck MuffLer ( rust included )

They really said that?!?! Well top speed can only be changed in two ways: changing gears or giving more HP if you haven't run in the the gear limit. I think the guy doen't know that the 2GNT autos can hit the 4th gear speed limit of ~130mph. So he might have assumed that the TC would let you travel to the limit because of the smaller loss of power. Personally I think that you should get the whole package you are talking about. I prefer to be prepared for major power not suffer from it. Like a turbo with proper fuel pumping out more HP than the stick pistons and rods can handle. Same goes here. Your TC will burn out a little sooner with some real power at like 100,000? Instead of the typical 200,000 or so. So get the tranny upgrade then turbo it. Even if you don't get pressure I would do it. Your car will perform better and we all love that. Give us the results too, I'm VERY interested.

Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology: The Only Replacement for Displacement"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

I'm with Oracle ... I'm gonna stay with my auto (once I get it fixed). I'll eventually levelten it ... don't know how far i'm gonna go with it though ... i guess it depends how much power I'll be putting out at the time ... pts kit cost around $650 plus torque converter (must have) $450 ... plus the shiftronic $1100 ... maybe I should just get their pre-built one for $2800 ... got all the ideas ... now all I need is money.


-Avenger
99 Eclipse RS Paperwieght w/ busted tranny

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

they have a prebuilt ? is it a 5 speed ? or 6 ? that would rooooock


oRACLe
nGk Plugs ( watch out now )
AeM ShoRt RaM
UnOrThAdOx RaCiNg PuLLeY
BrAnD SpAnKiNg NeW TrAnnY ( 405 miles )
MoDDed EUrO TaIlS
SToCk 14" Rims ( gotta have these )
StOck MuffLer ( rust included )

http://www.levelten.com/store/import/items/trans/JA103_3000_misu_chry_import_trans.htm

That's the url off of level 10s site. It's a rebuilt tranny so I'm guessing we still will only have 4 gears but all nice and race ready. That's my guess anyway.


-Avenger
99 Eclipse RS

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

We had this topic a few weeks ago and "you know" where I stand on this topic.
If all goes well I plan on doing the level ten this summer. I'll keep you all posted on cost and effectiveness.
Till then, my tranny will just have to deal with the 18 psi I am running right now.
So far no prob, but then again when I nail it the tires spin. Who knows what will happen with the slicks mounted.
SNAP!!!!!
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!MWC





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<img src="





http://smkn95eclipsemwc.homestead.com/mainpage.html

LAST EDITED ON 08-May-01 AT 11:33 PM (PST)

I didn't think there were that many auto's on here. If any of you aren't in that much of a hurry maybe Dunrite would make upgrades for your auto trannys too and they are cheaper than level 10, can't be that much different from the mitsu auto's in the turbo cars. (they look almost the same anyway)
If someone has time, give them a call, I think they are in Calli.
Dunrite Converters 626-442-1404

Michelle
96 Eclipse Base Model
Best 14.6@93 w/60 shot

1997 Eclipse RS
1991 Eclipse GSX
1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
1989 Dodge Daytona 2.5 turbo
(tinker car)
1996 Eclipse base model RIP

Unfortunately it's not a mitsu tranny but it's a chrysler designed and built tranny kinda like the engine. That's why there's no drain plug on the tranny oil pan (was that a stupid thing not to put on).

I've got no problems with the tranny being that though ... it's got me 2 wins in official races and puts up with me street racing almost every week. I knew it would eventually fail because I drive it so hard so I'm not too suprised that it's busted now in the shop.

A tip for you auto guys out there ... when you get the tranny fluid changed the first time GET A SHOP TO PUT A DRAIN PLUG IN THE PAN!!! It will save you tons of trouble in the future plus clueless shops going "uh, how am I supposed to change the fluid". I think you can buy a plug from summitracing. I should have done this the first time I changed it but now I will wait till I have to change it again.


-Avenger
99 Eclipse RS

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

But unless I'm mistaken, to change the filter you have to drop the pan. So what's the advantage to the drain plug aside from some neatness in draining. Why change the fluid and not the filter?

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), TSW Blade 17x7.5 (need tires)

Firefly:
Mal: You don't know me, son, so let me put this to you plainly: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me. And you'll be armed.

As before you know where I stand. Do the conversion. I love manmual transmissions. Quarter mile yes you can build an auto to run with the manuals. But there is more power loss in an auto than a manual. Also I'm not all about going in a straight line. I want to carve up a curvy raod, and there is nothin bertter than a manual to do this.

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), TSW Blade 17x7.5 (need tires)

Firefly:
Mal: You don't know me, son, so let me put this to you plainly: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me. And you'll be armed.

Conversion conversion conversion conversion conversion conversion conversion

btw, I think you should swap to a 5-speed

MuRiX
97 Eclipse GS HRC Stage II
And a whole lot of other mods...
A.D.P.
http://murix.home.icq.com/index.html

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

I'm surprised that a guy with TWO front upper strut tower bars would even have to ponder over this question.

I'm sure a souped-up auto with all the tricks could pull out a better 1/4 time, but for complete and overall package (and the ability to make excuses like..."I missed 2nd gear!"), go with the manual. It's pretty damn obvious all of us here are biased and skewed with what we like the best, but c'mon.

Deep down all of us know, though (J/K). I used to drive autos, but after I bought my last manual car(honduh prelude), I swore to never go back to an auto "sports car" again. To ME, an auto "sports car" is sort of an oxy-moron. No offense to automatics here, it's nice to be able to reach over and rub your girls leg while you drive or eat a sandwich. It's all about priorities and preferences. But I take care of my eating in the kitchen and the girls in the bedroom, but when I'm in my car, half the fun is the furious shifting in a straightaway or the glorious downshifts (and the corresponding tire chirps) around corners.

In my book, I could really care less about which is "better." (God knows that I wouldn't know enough to make a firm argument to which may be the better choice in terms of performance and practicality) I really don't even care what anyone else thinks since we all have our own preconceived notions on what is better and what is worse. I know anyone here would argue like hell to what they think is "better" as well (defending whichever is their own)

But what do I like..... I love shifting my manual tranny! (I hate being bored to death in my wife's auto )

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)/Custom FMIC


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Not to try and turn this into a manual vs. auto war (which this isn't a declaration or anything) but this is the reason why I drive an auto.

First I live around entirely too many hills and have tons of people pulling right up to my rear bumper when I'm stopped on a uphill at a light. It's something I don't like worrying about.

They still handle pretty good around corners and such and the auto does do some of the shifting right. You can manually down shift as long as your not at WOT anyway.

There are plenty of upgrades to make your auto smarter and more racer friendly.

There is only one downside that I know of really (well acutally 2). First being 4 gears and 2nd being the way the gear ratio is set up because of it. And aside from getting a custom tranny that you can change the gear ratios I don't think that we can get around that.

As for manuals, I like them (I'm driving one now while my car is in the shop), but I'd rather have my auto and be more oblivious than I already am.


-Avenger
99 Eclipse RS

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

Well put Jason, Although the things you listed can still be done with a manual... just makes them a little more interesting...

Avenger... one more reason I like drivign a manual I don't like being oblivious... except at work... then I just want 8 hours to disappear.

I feel that drivign a manual gives me a more direct connection with my car. One more thing I can control. When in a car I like to be able to control as many thing as I can. God knows I can't control anybody else on the road, or the road conditions, or any woman in my car, but I want to be able to control as much of my car as possible. (Yes I'm preparing for the control freak comments)

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), TSW Blade 17x7.5 (need tires)

Firefly:
Mal: You don't know me, son, so let me put this to you plainly: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me. And you'll be armed.

controll freak!! jkn. alright i have to comment. i would absolutly love to have a manual. that way i wouldnt have to bother with a auto build up. but my favorite thing in the world is to take the back road to my girlfriends house with my auto. all i have to do is stick it in second and take off. from 40-70 my second gear will throw heads back. there arent too many curves that i have to go into 1st and if im goin over 70 on fun roads then i really dont want to think about shifting to the next gear. just my $.52

aem cai
pacesetter headers
gs-t exhaust
red altezzas
rims, tires, and a bunch of other little stuff....that list is way too short....more will come!

-jason

Wassup guys....

Ive been reading a lot about you guys that are thinkin about doin up your ATs.. just wanted to remind you the easiest thing to do to your AT to add reliabilty... especially if your gonna go the performance route.. get a $40-$60 in-line tranny cooler. Theyre cheap, easy to instal, and will save you in the long run. This is a great idea for those with a stock tranny runnin boost too.....

96 Dodge Avenger 2.5L V6 Auto.
13.7@102.269mph, 2.1 60'. On the bottle.

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<img src="





http://smkn95eclipsemwc.homestead.com/mainpage.html

The same place when down the road I plan to mount an Oil Cooler. Passenger side behind the opening. You can also mount it in front of the radiator if you like. But I prefer the side spot, I make some kind of bracket and mount it up.

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), TSW Blade 17x7.5 (need tires)

Firefly:
Mal: You don't know me, son, so let me put this to you plainly: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me. And you'll be armed.

well there are many reasons why i have an auto .. 1) i smoke !! if i was manual i would definalty burn something ... 2.) ever been in nyc traffic..? upshift downshift upshift down shift .. no i dont think so .. i dont want to be anymore annoyed than i am when im sitting in traffic. 3) i know myself i would go through a clutch a month .. lol .. who cares really why i have an auto !! im a dsm --- i pimp --- and i look damn good doing it .. and i will rip u .. lol


oRACLe
nGk Plugs ( watch out now )
AeM ShoRt RaM
UnOrThAdOx RaCiNg PuLLeY
BrAnD SpAnKiNg NeW TrAnnY ( 758 miles )
MoDDed EUrO TaIlS
SToCk 14" Rims ( gotta have these )
StOck MuffLer ( rust included )

The spot infront of my radiator is being used.
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!MWC









http://smkn95eclipsemwc.homestead.com/mainpage.html

As a general rule these are the two places I see to mount it. For those of you with the very large intercooler, you are left with one spot. Right side (Passenger) behind the opening in your bumper opening.

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, AFX UDP, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), Slver Cadmium Plated KVR Cross Drilled Rotors and KVR Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads (Well Almost)

Firefly:
Mal: You don't know me, son, so let me put this to you plainly: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me. And you'll be armed.

the modless and the beautyful>>dont hate me cause she's beautyful>LOL! Heres my .02$pennies i love my five speed i bought my car not knowing manual operations so i learned it the hard way but it was worth it.i always loved the idea of shifting gears it seems natural?? maybe its just me.kinda like rearwheel drive had to throw that in hehehe!also i have no problem doing regular things like drinking stuff no! not beer!!,kissing my wife its all in the leg baby!!BTW i live in Cali.talk about traffic! anyways hell i lost my train of thought later!y'all