#136540, "Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" Apr-21-12 03:54 PM by Red90Sev
I just got done putting my motor back in my car after installing a gates timing belt and a Parts dino mechanical tensioner. I was wondering if anyone who has these has experienced a whining sound coming from the timing belt area? It's not really loud, but it caught my attention. The whine follows the rpm as you rev it. I was just wondering if the belt makes a different noise than oem ones possibly? Idk, the pulleys have very low mileage and I checked them before installing and they looked and acted fine... The mechanical tensioner was kind of a bitch to install since it was a different tension every time after rotating it. If anything, I set it to be slightly more tensioned because when I would turn the motor over, the tension would not be enough, so I set it slightly higher tension so when I rotated it over, it was exactly where it was supposed to be. I do have the timing cover on... But when I put a hose up to my ear and search around for the sound, it seems to be coming from either the mech tensioner area, or the idle bearing. Any ideas? Edit: I'm going to make a video tonight so ya'll can hear it.
#136541, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 0
Ive heard others say something along those lines, so it must be normal. I have one on my car, and being as loud as it is its hard to hear other noises, but I do hear a whining noise climbing with RPM from time to time. Sounds almost like a supercharger whine but not as pronounced. Ive had my timing belt off 4 times since installing it 300 miles ago and it still looks and feels fine. My theory is it will make the noise until the bearing breaks in.
95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII 186 WHP - 150 WTQ 14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten 99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister 99 GS OZ: Sold 03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls
Edit: the timing belt kind of wobbles back and forth on the cam gears a little, is that normal? I can't remember and think I'm being really paranoid now.
#136546, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 5
Did you properly cut your inner timing belt cover? Everything flush with the mechanical tensioner? The slightest bit off would make a squeal id imagine.
#136548, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 6 Apr-22-12 03:08 AM by Red90Sev
Originally posted by Babbz413 Did you properly cut your inner timing belt cover? Everything flush with the mechanical tensioner? The slightest bit off would make a squeal id imagine.
Yeah, made sure it sat flush, did all the proper trimming to the cover prior to installing. Also, I'm running Crower 2 n/a cams if that matters.
#136554, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 7
Mechanical is better then hydro.. sad to see u switched back. The whine is typical when the tension is set wrong...
you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest, honestly, its the honest ones you need to look out for. you never know when they will do something..stupid
#136555, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 8
Originally posted by streetlightning Mechanical is better then hydro.. sad to see u switched back. The whine is typical when the tension is set wrong...
How so? Too tight? Or too loose? I rotated the motor over about six times and the tension landed right where it needed to be.... So idk how it could have been set wrong....
#136557, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 10
How so.. is a litens.. same place that makes ur hydro? The srt guys runt them just fine at high hp and its more stable for those with larger cams. Typivally the whine is to tight. Did u replace the idler as well? Im wondering if its not a bad bearing if youve rotated and it lines up.
you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest, honestly, its the honest ones you need to look out for. you never know when they will do something..stupid
#136564, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 14 Apr-23-12 05:57 PM by Red90Sev
Originally posted by Dstach No thats not normal. It shouldn't move side to side any. It will more to find where it wants to ride but that's it. No movement after that.
So which bearing usually goes bad first? I have less than 10k on the idler and the tensioner bearing is brand new..... This sux, time to do the timing belt..... And I was all happy I got away with this one with the motor out of the car lol......
Edit: So am I looking at two different problems here? Would the belt wobble also be a symptom of over tension? Or is the wobble only due to a bad bearing? Or is the whine and the wobble due to a bad bearing lol. Once I have the bearings out, how do I check them out, because when I installed them, they both were smooth and had no play in them...
#136572, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 16
somethings deff not right. Id would replace the idler. something is wobbly.
you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest, honestly, its the honest ones you need to look out for. you never know when they will do something..stupid
#136575, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 17 Apr-24-12 12:21 AM by Red90Sev
Okay, I'm back down to the timing belt. First question, how in the hell are you supposed to set the mechanical tensioner with the motor in the car? I can't see the alignment notch at all. Guess I'll buy a mirror. Also, I was rotating the motor by hand and was hearing the whining sound basically at every pulley and bearing, so I think it's the belt.... Not sure, but I could not pinpoint it at all, even with a hose to my ear trying specific locations.... Here's a pic of how far the tensioner sits, when I got my motor mount off, it looked like the nut on the tensioner was sitting against the timing cover, anyone else notice that?
#136576, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 18
Its not too too bad to get to it. I did it with a 2.4 in. Just have to cover off and if you lift the motor up a hair it helps alot!!! I had to cover still on just unbolted and it just BARELY fits but can be done.
#136577, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 19 Apr-24-12 01:06 AM by Red90Sev
I think I know why my belt was wobbling......wtf? I torqued the nut on the mech tensioner and this is how much movement still comes from it.... http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb423/Red90Sev/?action=view¤t=3bc88219.mp4 Did I get one of the bad ones? That's the same movement my belt had...and btw, all the bearings checked out.. It's def the tensioner causing the belt movement... EDIT: Here's another video so you can see the side to side movement.... http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb423/Red90Sev/?action=view¤t=acc136e3.mp4 Note, all trimming of the timing belt were done properly and the tensioner was seated flush. I installed this with the motor out of the car so it was very straight forward. All bearings have checked out good. The movement on the mech tensioner isn't the bearing itself, but the piece the bearing is attached to. Tensioner was brand new and had only maybe 5-15 minutes of idle time.
#136580, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 20 Apr-24-12 08:13 AM by streetlightning
I used my camera phone to light it and see what i was doing. its deff best to do outside of the car, but its still easier then the dam hydro. Do you have adjustable gears? If so, use the DCR method, it works pretty slick.
you have gotten a bad one, what did you TQ to? I did the 10mm bolt mod to mine. but i dodnt think you can do it to yours at this point.
you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest, honestly, its the honest ones you need to look out for. you never know when they will do something..stupid
#136585, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 21 Apr-24-12 01:31 PM by Red90Sev
I torqued the nut to what the instructions stated, so there couldn't have been a problem there. I believe it was faulty from the get go, I don't even see how over tension would have even caused what it's doing. I do have adjustable cam gears, don't I need a cam setting fixture to do it the dcr way? Or can you do it differently? Because it's hell trying to get it all to line up with my gears...
#136587, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 22 Apr-24-12 02:44 PM by Red90Sev
Just for reference sake, I took a few more pictures and another vid of where the movement is coming from. I'm talking with Bruce from Parts Dino and he's helping me figure out what's up. Very fast responses I must say... http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb423/Red90Sev/?action=view¤t=22320d75.mp4 So, the video shows that there is movement regardless of the nut being on it or not, because the inner black piece is one piece. So, regardless of how tight the nut is/was, there would still be movement.
#136588, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 23
Unless you overtorqued the tension nut, that bolt is too long. You said it was hitting the timing cover? On mine the threads of the bolt can barely be seen with the nut at proper tension. My belt rides dead center of my cam gears, and I no longer have any noise, not that mine was loud in the first place though.
95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII 186 WHP - 150 WTQ 14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten 99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister 99 GS OZ: Sold 03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls
#136589, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 24
Originally posted by 740 turbo brick Unless you overtorqued the tension nut, that bolt is too long. You said it was hitting the timing cover? On mine the threads of the bolt can barely be seen with the nut at proper tension. My belt rides dead center of my cam gears, and I no longer have any noise, not that mine was loud in the first place though.
The nut wasn't over torqued, the threads stuck out that far before I installed it. The bolt might be too long, even if it was over torqued, that's a high grade bolt and the way it is on back side, it would have to have been seriously stretched lol.... Also, in case anyone is wondering, the length of the bolt wouldn't have anything to do with the movement that I'm having on it.
#136590, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 25
Idk.. as you tq it down, the load changes and tou have to play against the tab that your tighening. I put a hex hey in, tqed, as i tqd, adjusted the tab with the hex key to.keep the tang.centered, otherwise it will move on you and be off.
you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest, honestly, its the honest ones you need to look out for. you never know when they will do something..stupid
#136591, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 26 Apr-24-12 09:04 PM by Red90Sev
Originally posted by streetlightning Idk.. as you tq it down, the load changes and tou have to play against the tab that your tighening. I put a hex hey in, tqed, as i tqd, adjusted the tab with the hex key to.keep the tang.centered, otherwise it will move on you and be off.
Not sure what you're saying here. If you mean I could have over tensioned the belt while torquing the nut, then I see what you mean. Yes, as you torque the nut, the load on the drive that is tensioning the belt needs to be watched. I did that. I was saying that over torquing the nut shouldn't stretch the bolt unless you really went crazy with tightening it (that was mentioned by someone earlier)... But like I said, when I tensioned the belt, the tab was dead on, every time I rotated the motor over. So there's def no way the belt was over tensioned. My main problem right now is the play that the tensioner has. It's identical to the amount of movement my belt had on my cam gears and everything else checked out. So, the only thing that could have been causing the belt to move is the mechanical tensioner. I had a hydraulic one on it previously and did not have that problem. The black center piece is one solid piece, so I don't know if it was machined wrong, because it needs to be slightly bigger to take up the slack that's causing it to move in and out...
#136596, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 27
Just received an email from PD and he sent out a new one for me today and should be here about Friday or Saturday so I can get my car back on the road. Looks like it is defective. He said he couldn't mimic the movement that mine had on another tensioner. I'm mailing this one back to him so he can send it to the manufacturer. Excellent customer service imo. Too bad the part was bad.
#136619, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 28 Apr-29-12 04:58 AM by Red90Sev
So I got the new one in the mail...... It has the exact same "play" in it as the one I took off my car that's was suspected to be defective.... Anyone else want to chime in on this? I don't understand how something like a tensioner can have so much movement in the timing components... So, is this just how they are? Or did I somehow end up with two defective tensioners?? Bad batch of tensioners from the manufacturer? wtf? I installed my old hydraulic one and the belt wobble went away, reinstalled the mechanical one, the belt wobble came back... So I know it's the mechanical tensioner causing it for sure now. Are these things just made that way or am I missing something??
#136722, "RE: Gates timing belt and mechanical tensioner" In response to Reply # 29
Just to update this. I put the new tensioner on and the whining went away completely. The wobble however is still there, but not as bad. I am certain that the wobble is due to the play that I show in the video. The only piece of the timing components that have any play is the mechanical tensioner. So, I am assuming it's normal.... I checked and rechecked every bolt in the timing components, checked the idle bearing, and made sure the tension was perfect. SO, that's my experience with this particular tensioner.
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