I recently bought Manley Springs and Ti retainers Has anyone used these ones I bought them from DSM GY and, on the box it says for SRT 4 Neon... They Seem to be a PITA after I bought the Snap on GA-317 Valve Keeper tool... the retainers don't wanna fit. Is it me I am a #### to this.. but, I am in need of some advice..

97 GS build in progress

I am sure you will have plenty of feedback regarding DSM graveyard and its stellar business practices but SRT retainers and keepers are not compatible with 2.0 components due to seat angle and number of lock/keeper grooves. So using 420a keepers and SRT retainers is not likely going to work.

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2012 2500HD LML

I believe the SRT4s have a different valve keeper (top of the valve is rounded to a different degree/angle, thus different keeper and retainer).. so the retainers wont work.. some one else had this problem too.. Im not sure why you guys run stuff from the srt4, when they offer crower valve springs and TI retainers for our cars..

I have a set my self and love them.. id suggest you send them back and get the right part.

Dam.. CODE got to it first..lol.

Side note. What Cams are you running that you think you need this kind of hardware?

you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest, honestly, its the honest ones you need to look out for. you never know when they will do something..stupid

I bought the Manley's Blindly I was not looking at anything else but the price.. I am assuming that the springs will not work as well?

97 GS build in progress

Just buy the parts specified for the vehicle.

If you really want to keep the ones that are not made for the application, use Manley's catalog to compare free/compressed height of the springs, coil diameter, etc, etc.

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2012 2500HD LML

I was starting to regret buying from DSM GY. after getting Irritated the owner from DSM GY called me after hours and spoke with me for over an hour I explained to him my issues.. All (John) wanted was to make things right and, explained to why things went wrong and why the Springs are on the site (a guy was using them on his motor some way or another and told john that these springs and retainers work) they went by that trustworthy statement. DSM GY is paying for shipping, of the part back and, total original cost. I'd say he treated me with respect and took his time to make sure I was satisfied. I always appreciate good customer service.

97 GS build in progress

Jon is fucking LIAR! He does not know of anybody who somehow used these parts. He makes shit up as he goes. I have discussed this quality with him multiple times. He kinda hears something from somebody who's cousin's friend said that their uncle once heard about somebody who thought about doing that.......and it becomes fact to him. He is the king of hack and should be treated as such.

Good customer service for selling something that is not possible to do? Yeah, where have we heard of that before gents? This goddamn lowlife just continues to be a piece of shit. I just hate people that take advantage of unsuspecting innocents. He's s fucking con man liar - get my drift?!

Help yourself to buying his parts again. But when you get that "rebuilt head" full of media that ruins your engine (Yeah, I've personally seen it with two locals who accidentally bought his crap before I could talk to them), then you will absolutely hear laughter from me.......and nothing else.

Here's another example of this cocksucker;

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-bolt-tech/351211-420a-cams-what-do-you-recommend-3.html

Let's be clear here; I do not like him Sam I am.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

I am not sure that I will continue to shop there but, I did appreciate his apology and, initiative to make things right about the part.

97 GS build in progress

I bought the spring and ti brian crower kit from modern performance they said it works and had the same problem so people really need to get their stuff in line. I contacted them and told them my problem and they said I was in the wrong. If you want something that fits and works great pick up the supertech duel valve spring kit. I bought it and installed could not be happier.

Finish? What is this "finish" you speak of sir? Dsm's are never complete just temporarily put together.

97 eclipse gone but never forgotten Ill miss you money pit.

Crower makes springs and Ti retainers.. get those. Idk bout supertech...

you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest, honestly, its the honest ones you need to look out for. you never know when they will do something..stupid

Measure the diameter of the springs and the recommended installed height. The springs may be useable if close to the 420A specs.

No such thing as seat angle.....no idea what anyone is referring to there. Problem is the valve stem grooves are different. What you might be able to do is to find a set of aftermarket keepers for the 420A, check the degree of the keepers and see what degree the SRT4 are. Many aftermarkets use 10* locks. As long as the diameter of the keepers and degree are the same you can interchange them.

You also need to check the diameter of the Ti retainers and make sure they will fit. After that there si one last thing you need to check......retainer hieght. you want to make sure the retainer doesnt sit much lower or much higher that the 420A retainers.

These measurements need to be done with any retainers/springs you buy. just slapping a spring set in a head is takign a risk and halfassing it.

Valve height Micrometer is only 55.00. Shim kits are pennies. You want to make sure the spring install height is at the recommended manufacturer height when installed in your head. Not every valve will take the same shims due to casting variances and casting warpage of the head. Dont forget to verify the coil bind height and the actual calculated lift at the valve (not the advertised lift of lobe).

Another thing you can do but its more work is look into the SRT4 valves. If the valves are larger than the 420A you can take advantage of a larger margin valve by having them machined smaller to the 420A specs. You will get less turbulance when using a larger margin. If you want proof....put the head on a flow bench and you will see it clear as day. Old mopar trick and the reason mopar guys avoid ferrea valves! If the valve is longer.....thats not a big deal since its not hard to shorten and remaching the grooves in the stems. You will have to weigh out the cost of machining VS buying all new shit. The only thing you cant do is make the valve stem longer, or the valve larger....

Cleaning the airflow up around the valve margin and the neck will really improve the head's ability to flow. Find a shop with a flow bench and spend a little money.....you will be happy you did and then I suggest you keep some of the secrets to yourself! Dont give them ALL away.

Good luck

Terry

Post the P/N of what you have........I will look at the specs on everything and see what you will need to do to make them work. I need to see what specs these are to say for sure but I am willing to be you can use them.

Ordering parts by vehicle make is easier but it also cost more becuase the part manufacturers do all the detail work for you. If you know exactly what you need and what options you have....its usually cheaper.

The SRT 1mm oversize Valves are the same size as the stock 2.0L neon valves. Still looking for stem height. Stem diameter is the same which means the Retainer locks are the same diameter. Did the retainers come with new locks? If not, your stock locks will work. Looking at Manley, they are designed to work with factory SRT 4 retainers which are 7* locks.

The springs are the same for SRT4 and Neon 2.0L

The difference is the height of the retainers.

BC1100 Seat: 1.500" @ 92 lbs / Open: 1.100" @ 210 lbs / Coil Bind: 0.920" w/BC2160
BC1100 Seat: 1.550" @ 84 lbs / Open: 1.100" @ 204 lbs / Coil Bind: 0.970" w/BC2159

You can use the kit you have. Contact me and I will explain how you do it, then you can have everyone trying to guess how. Wont cost you anything except for proper spring setup.

Really? You're fully aware that he has single groove keepers and the SRT-4's come with triple groove keepers. As well as the interior angle of the keeper is different. The problem is in the keepers.

And why would you make an attempt to use these if you can simply order the correct ones? (and OP, I'm sure you have already sent them back. What's going on now is an exercise in adaptation of parts).

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Fully aware they can be used if you know what your doing. Here is a hint......you dont use the keepers and both retainers are 7*. I would spell it out but frankly I dont feel like the debate today. As usualy Mark, you will argue based on a listing of a part rather than what is different and what is not.

Why use them? Because he has them and there is no need to buy another set. If all you can understand are parts listed specifically for the 420a then you shouldnt waste your time building a car.

Mark did you bother to research and find out the same aftermarket springs are used in the SRT4 and 420A? That the retainers themself are basically the same with the same degree lock? That the only difference is the locks grooving and the the locks are not stronger than the 420A locks?

I have yet to see a crew chief order a set of retainers for a specific model nascar or a midget.

If setup properly these are useable, for once DSM graveyard is actually right and 2GNT is incorrect.

I guess the springs/retainers in my 420A should have been removed 4 years ago seeing as how they are not for a 420A either.

Sometimes Mark I dont understand you, this concept is something I am sure you have used back in your hayday yet today you limit yourself based on ordering parts by vehicle.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Ah, by no means do I endorse DSM Graveyard......I understand your level of aggravation there. Not trying to say they are trustworth by any means. You know me better than that.

The Keepers are different I agree. However the keepers are both 7*. We both agree on that. What is different with the Keepers as you states is the fact that SRT has a 3 groove stem, I understand that. With a 7* matching outer angle the keepers are going to be comparable outer diameter, its not like trying to use a 7* keeper in a 10* hole. The inner diameter is really irrelevant unless you trying to convert the valves as well.

I am not telling anyone to just throw something in, I have never done that in the 6 years you have known me at ther same time just claiming something wont work becuase its listed for another car isnt always accurate either.

Of course you would need to verify the Keepers sit in the retainers with proper depth and you will need to verify the closed seat height and coil bind height/lift. 90% of the guys here just slap the springs in......do you endorse doing just that? I know you enough to know you prolly dont. Do people get away with doing sure, considering the off the shelf cams for the 420A are kind of mild compared to other designs such as the 4G63. With a custom grind hi lift cam i would count on that "slap it in method: to not always work.

I know very well you know all of this, i just dont understand your view or your hostility towards me on this given your experience.

If the OP can return them and doesnt care about waiting....who cares but if DSm graveyard is goign to refuse a refund becuase they say they will work then this info will help the OP from paying for another set of over priced retainers.

I still dont understand why people insist on Ti Retainers on a street car anyway. Your not trying to produce every tiny HP out of the motor to justify the lighter valve train. A good set of springs are really all you need. Comp Cams camshafts werent recommending springs at all last time I looked; if they did i didnt see it but I was looking at a different aspect of the cam so i could have missed it.