Welcome to the 2GNT Forum!
Home Site Background Info & Specs Mods & Tech Info CAPS Part Reviews Donate 2GNT Stickers
Search Printer-friendly copy 3 Users in Chat
Top 2GNT Technical Performance/Engine topic #135290
View in linear mode

Subject: "Coil on Plug Help!?" Previous topic | Next topic
Gruff511Oct-18-11 02:30 AM
Member since Aug 06th 2011
203 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135290, "Coil on Plug Help!?"


          

okay so i can't find anything about people running coil on plug on the 420a. I've heard people using the 2.7l coils but they don't fit all too well on the 420a.

Is there anyone running coil on plug setup? if so, what kind of coils are you using?

I will be powering them using MS3X with the 5v logic level signal unless i can find suitable coils with built in ignitors. Im choosing this route so i can go Full sequential



  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, VelocitaPaola, Oct-18-11 02:56 AM, #1
RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, Gruff511, Oct-18-11 03:41 AM, #2
      RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, VelocitaPaola, Oct-18-11 03:45 AM, #3
           RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, Gruff511, Oct-18-11 04:10 AM, #4
                RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, VelocitaPaola, Oct-18-11 04:19 AM, #5
                     RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, Gruff511, Oct-18-11 03:17 PM, #6
                          RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, VelocitaPaola, Oct-20-11 03:52 PM, #7
                               RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, Gruff511, Oct-20-11 04:33 PM, #8
                                    RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, Black Cotton, Oct-20-11 07:54 PM, #9
                                         RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, Gruff511, Oct-20-11 08:15 PM, #10
                                              RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, VelocitaPaola, Oct-20-11 08:44 PM, #11
                                                   RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, Gruff511, Nov-12-11 06:21 PM, #12
                                                        RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, Gruff511, Dec-01-11 04:14 AM, #13
                                                             RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, chinexican, Dec-01-11 08:36 AM, #14
                                                                  RE: Coil on Plug Help!?, Moderatorbullettdsm, Dec-02-11 02:28 AM, #15

VelocitaPaolaOct-18-11 02:56 AM
Member since Jun 13th 2005
626 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135291, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 0

          

Originally posted by Gruff511Im choosing this route so i can go Full sequential
What do you mean? COP isn't a prerequisite for sequential fuel injection...

-----------------------------------------

-Paul

Service Manuals and Guides

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Gruff511Oct-18-11 03:41 AM
Member since Aug 06th 2011
203 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135292, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 1

          

Sorry i meant to just state i want to go sequential, i heard coil on plug is a better route. Or is that wrong?

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
VelocitaPaolaOct-18-11 03:45 AM
Member since Jun 13th 2005
626 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135293, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 2

          

Originally posted by Gruff511
Sorry i meant to just state i want to go sequential, i heard coil on plug is a better route. Or is that wrong?

"Better" is a subjective term. I don't see any real benefits to it over wasted spark. Some of the turbocharged Neon guys choose COP because it gets the coil away from the hot turbocharger. The 2GNT doesn't really have that problem, though.

-----------------------------------------

-Paul

Service Manuals and Guides

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Gruff511Oct-18-11 04:10 AM
Member since Aug 06th 2011
203 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135294, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 3

          

Ok well i just got a ms3x board and im trying to use the 5v logic level signals it provides, would i just use 2 ignition wires from the ms3x board to run wasted spark on them? And would it be better to get a coil with a built-in ignitor or it doesn't matter?

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
VelocitaPaolaOct-18-11 04:19 AM
Member since Jun 13th 2005
626 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135295, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 4

          

Originally posted by Gruff511
Ok well i just got a ms3x board and im trying to use the 5v logic level signals it provides, would i just use 2 ignition wires from the ms3x board to run wasted spark on them? And would it be better to get a coil with a built-in ignitor or it doesn't matter?

You could use spark outputs A and B with a 4G63 ignitor and your stock coil. If you're set on using COP coils, you can wire them to spark outputs A, B, C, and D. If the ECU has a camshaft position sensor signal it can do true COP. Otherwise you will have to use "wasted COP" mode, which controls the coils individually but in a wasted spark fashion.

If you're using the MS3X's 5V logic level spark outputs, you have to use coils with integrated ignitors, unless you're using some sort of buffer in between the MS3X and coils (e.g. 4G63 ignitor, CDI, etc.).

-----------------------------------------

-Paul

Service Manuals and Guides

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Gruff511Oct-18-11 03:17 PM
Member since Aug 06th 2011
203 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135296, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 5

          

Originally posted by VelocitaPaola
You could use spark outputs A and B with a 4G63 ignitor and your stock coil. If you're set on using COP coils, you can wire them to spark outputs A, B, C, and D. If the ECU has a camshaft position sensor signal it can do true COP. Otherwise you will have to use "wasted COP" mode, which controls the coils individually but in a wasted spark fashion. If you're using the MS3X's 5V logic level spark outputs, you have to use coils with integrated ignitors, unless you're using some sort of buffer in between the MS3X and coils (e.g. 4G63 ignitor, CDI, etc.).


Yes i have the cam input to go sequential. I really like the coil on plug setup and that is the route i want to go.
So as from my first post, the question now is, 'what coil can i use that will work ON the 420a?'

I heard of some one using the coils from the 2.7l but they cant bolt down and pop off sometimes. Im looking for a coil that will sit down on the plug and still have enough room above the valve cover to fabricate a mounting bracket. Unless there are some coils that dont need to be bolted down?

I guess this post would be directed to the guys that have done a 'coil on plug' setup already on their 420a.

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
VelocitaPaolaOct-20-11 03:52 PM
Member since Jun 13th 2005
626 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135319, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 6

          

Originally posted by Gruff511Yes i have the cam input to go sequential. I really like the coil on plug setup and that is the route i want to go. So as from my first post, the question now is, 'what coil can i use that will work ON the 420a?' I heard of some one using the coils from the 2.7l but they cant bolt down and pop off sometimes. Im looking for a coil that will sit down on the plug and still have enough room above the valve cover to fabricate a mounting bracket. Unless there are some coils that dont need to be bolted down? I guess this post would be directed to the guys that have done a 'coil on plug' setup already on their 420a.

You've indicated that you don't want to hear from me anymore, but just so your question doesn't go completely unanswered, the 2.7L coils are not compatible with the MS3X spark outputs. These coils do not have integrated ignitors.

LS1 and LS2 coils are popular choices that work well with the MS3X, however.

-----------------------------------------

-Paul

Service Manuals and Guides

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Gruff511Oct-20-11 04:33 PM
Member since Aug 06th 2011
203 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135320, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 7

          

Ok i will check out those ls coils then. thanks for all the help

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
Black CottonOct-20-11 07:54 PM
Member since Oct 20th 2006
114 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135321, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 8

          

LS1 coils are not TRUE C.O.P. however, all (early) LS motors mount their coils on the valve cover and run short wires to the spark plugs.

I have owned and built several LS1, LS6 motors and that is their design.

Similar 4.6, 5.3 and 6.0 Silverado's and such utilize that same design I described above also.

I am not sure of the LS2, LS3, L99, LS7 ect design.

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Gruff511Oct-20-11 08:15 PM
Member since Aug 06th 2011
203 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135322, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 9

          

Originally posted by Black Cotton
LS1 coils are not TRUE C.O.P. however, all (early) LS motors mount their coils on the valve cover and run short wires to the spark plugs. I have owned and built several LS1, LS6 motors and that is their design. Similar 4.6, 5.3 and 6.0 Silverado's and such utilize that same design I described above also. I am not sure of the LS2, LS3, L99, LS7 ect design.


Yeah thanks for that update. I just saw that they aren't actual coil on plug. If i can't find c.o.p coils that fit on the 420a i will just run coil near plug as the way you described

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
VelocitaPaolaOct-20-11 08:44 PM
Member since Jun 13th 2005
626 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135323, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 10

          

As far as I know, the LS2 coils are the same way.

-----------------------------------------

-Paul

Service Manuals and Guides

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
Gruff511Nov-12-11 06:21 PM
Member since Aug 06th 2011
203 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135464, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 11

          

{SOLUTION]
Just to Update the thread on solution and what route i went...

I went with the LS2 Truck coils and bought 4 of them and attached spark plug boots from the 2.7l coils.I will post pics soon to show exactly how i did it...

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
Gruff511Dec-01-11 04:14 AM
Member since Aug 06th 2011
203 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135592, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 12

          









  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
chinexicanDec-01-11 08:36 AM
Member since Oct 18th 2011
3 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135593, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 13



          

That looks beautiful. I can't wait to get home next year.

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                        
ModeratorbullettdsmDec-02-11 02:28 AM
Donating 2GNT member
2676 posts, 		Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#135597, "RE: Coil on Plug Help!?"
In response to Reply # 14

          

Thanks for posting up the the pics of your progress for future searchers. I hate when people start a thread and discuss options etc., and then never post up their process/results.

Now I personally have no love for the coil on plug set-up. But for those who do, they can at least see an option. I know you'll keep us posted on your results.

If you come up with positive results, I would sugggest that you put this info in the wiki.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

  
Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Top 2GNT Technical Performance/Engine topic #135290 Previous topic | Next topic
   

Powered by DCForum+ Version 2.2
Copyright 1997-2005 DCScripts.com, Copyright 2005-2026 2gnt.com
Generated in 0.073 seconds, executing 44 queries.