So I'm thinking this is better;




Compared to this;





Did some machining work with my buddy Steve and came up with 5 1/2" runners for higher power range. Haven't dyno'ed it or anything, just showing the work.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Effing awesome Mark! Can't wait to see the dyno results.

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

so sexy

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

I would imagine that taking that bend out will DRASTICALLY help the top end! Awesome Mark, ready to see some numbers!

___________________________________________



http://www.2gnt.com/quote_db.php?id=278

Outside of Corona: "That sucks, peace out..." (jamie walks away)... "Sweeet, what we doin?" -Zac
Tim's garage (prior to motor install): "Im gonna smoke real quick, that way if you fuck up I am already nicotined up" -Tim

Thanks guys.

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G
Effing awesome Mark! Can't wait to see the dyno results.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Awesome

http://www.2gnt.com/quote_db.php?id=287

Yeah, that is close to the firewall, hopefully it doesn't choke the air from the horns and create dead spots in your power band.

Time to cut holes in the firewall...

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

very interesting, so when are you swapping out the TB's on the ITB for bigger ones? =P

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Do you think the lack of airflow at the upper rpm from being behind the motor has anything to do with it? I think a subaru style hood with the vent being further back would benefit this a lot. This is an awesome gain over the plenum though for sure. Another question that comes to my mind, what are you doing with the original intake manifold? I know a few people on here would LOVE to get their hands on something like that, of course if you are through with it. I also think its funny how the normal NA "dip" moved lower in the power band vs a conventional plenum intake. Anywho, like always I'm super stoked on seeing what else you have in mind/store for the next thing.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

I think having a box around these things that feed into a velocity stack like you had on the single 65mm set up would give you great wtq and allow it to breath up top and POSSIBLY give you the "forced induction" you get from the ram air effect. Having a box around the itb's is always a hit or miss kind of thing, too big and its doing no good, too small and your choking the itb's. Meh, anywho, I know you'll continue on the path and have even more amazing things in store for us...

If you were to build a plenum around the stacks, you'd then also have the option of being able to apply some resonance tuning.

http://www.2gnt.com/quote_db.php?id=287

Now what could this stuff be?









For starters;



Four stocker 52mm's. How am I gonna do the throttle linkage? Got no fucking idea right now, lol. Bolt them on? Haven't the foggiest yet.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

LOL, awesome, nice case of the F-its and lets start cutting stuff up to make it fit! Do keep us posted!

this is my mood 90% of the time. Wish I was there with ya Mark, I'm a problem solver. I'm sure that the Morpheus build can help you a lot in your goal as well.

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Custom throttle plate rod? If you could run one rod through all 4 throttle bodies that would make things simpler.

Would it be possible to make the outlet sides work with V band clamps? Then you wouldn't need to bolt them on.

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

96 RS
95 Toyota pickup - 8" lift, 33's (sold)
07 Toyota tacoma - TRD Sport
13 Ford Fusion

I like logic more when it travels in circles.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

96 RS
95 Toyota pickup - 8" lift, 33's (sold)
07 Toyota tacoma - TRD Sport
13 Ford Fusion

I like logic more when it travels in circles.

Here's an idea. Two linkages attached to the factory bufferfly levers. One above and the other below, so that as one lever pulls (and attempts to cant off) the other would push. The two linakges would not be able to cant toward each other. Since the levers can only move 90*, you can mount the linkages so that they have maximum distance between the two at 45* (one on "top", one on "bottom"), they will not collide with each other and should hopefully still be able to provide enough angular force at 90* to fully open the last butterfly.


Or, alternatively, turn the TB's so that they all share the same pivotal line and attach the shafts. Then either use the lever on one TB and a different AoA for your TB cable, or use the lever/linkage assembly from the other ITB setup.


A rack and pinions would be ideal for the pictured orientation - if not clunky, difficult to implement, and expensive.

Just throwing it out there.

edit: when I say lever, I'm talking circular.

http://www.2gnt.com/quote_db.php?id=287

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Pics

Tore them down and, of course, cut them down;


Then bored them out;



and then cut down the throat and smoothed out the exterior (just in case we need to attched to it.


We also addressed vac leak issues for the IAC that was cut off and the small evap breather that comes out of the top.

So steps of progress. As always I like to show you as I go so that you can see it takes some time and figuring to do modifications like this. And sometimes you can change your direction midstream because of obstacles that you don't forsee. In addition, you may go through ALL this work only to find that it either doesn't work/fit, or works poorly(as in the previous foray into the 42mm throttle bodies; great for the street, but can't help me in my race car).

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

LOL, thats the spirit. Youre MB, youll figure it out.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Been following this thread, AWESOME! You might end up possibly mounting something off of the valve cover to connect to the tb's? Keep up the great work!

Looking at the throttle linkage design, my thought would be to perhaps combine two ideas into one. Instead of using levers, just make swivel extensions and mount them where the throttle cables normally go. Instead of having to be stuck with trying to run a rod or cable in the original manner, you'd be able to run a threaded rod right on the side of the throttle arm though all TBs. Plus, using two lock nuts on either side of the extensions would give you a great degree of fine tuning each ITB. The only part of this idea that might require some extra work is the throttle arm you need to hook the actual cable to. You might need to machine an aluminum one with provisions for both the threaded rod and cable end. Just throwing my idea out there.

Damn, MB. You never cease to amaze.

This is something I always wanted to do, and here you've done it, have the DSG paper to prove it, and have figured out a better solution.

You, sir, are a Gearhead God.

Just saying.

Looking forward to seeing you and the beast in Norwalk this summer.

Originally posted by DR1665
Damn, MB. You never cease to amaze. This is something I always wanted to do, and here you've done it, have the DSG paper to prove it, and have figured out a better solution. You, sir, are a Gearhead God. Just saying. Looking forward to seeing you and the beast in Norwalk this summer.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Sarcasm or not, you just made my day, Mark.

You've got me thinking, 97 ESi 5-spd, your rev. A ITB setup (on the curves), very mild head work, Crower 2s, LTH, MSnS would make for a fantastic hedge against $4/gal.

Inspiration comes full circle.

Hey kids and squids, Bullett asked me to chime in. I think that was only to post the pics. Unfortunately I was out all day but it looks like he figured out photobucket.
We keep kicking ourselves to bring a real camera with us to the shop.

We had a couple ideas:
a long bar with some chain links or shoulder bolts/ball and sockets
4 disks like stock throttlebody cable adapters
some wagonwheels or train wheels
finally settled on rotating them 90 degrees and trying to finagle some couplers in between them

Solving for the throw of the arm isn't bad on a TB. The plate closes and 90 degrees later there is a stop for the arm. We can put the stop anywhere so it opens worlds of possibilities. When I did a boost actuated cutout I had to solve for the chord. I had x amount of throw from the actuator and had to translate that into 90 degree movement. That sucked.

I tried selling him on one solid rod. There were a lot of pros to this like the shaft being 3/8" diameter. We have tons of 3/8 stock laying around. They would all be synchronized if the shaft was one piece also. But the cons started to quickly outweigh the pros. Because the throttle bodies are all cast garbage made of old beer cans and door knobs they're drastically different. Just between two throttle bodies I measured ~.060" difference. The height from the base of the TB to the center line of the shaft would have to be perfect or it'd bind or bend or the plates wouldn't close all the way.

I brought a block of 2x3 aluminum out of the stock room and said "Why don't I just bore this out for you?"
That would've been easy to get all the holes in line, mounting flanges all the same, I could've done all 4 in no time and there wouldn't be any leaks because of ISC or what have you.
Bullett replied "Because I get a hard on using stock parts"

I put the original ITB setup in my machine but because the stock manifold is cast the dimensions were all over the place. I had all the dimensions for the hole pattern on the 42mm but when I indicated each velocity stack and put a dimple where the holes were they didn't line up. Whoever did the original ITB setup with the 42mm's might not have had access to equipment like this. In the end we had to just eyeball where the holes were. Even then we still encountered binding because the 42mm's were welded together.
This would've made the one long shaft more of a pain to line up.

So we settled on the stock TB's, bored out, and a coupler in between. The coupler will just be a sleeve with 2 set screws in each side. This will let us swing the TB's around to get them over the velocity stacks and because we can make them any length necessary we can suck them in or move them out accordingly. The coupler will also let us set each TB in a closed position. Another problem with one solid shaft and the dimensional inconsistancies would be, as an example, that 1, 2, and 4 might've been fully closed but 3 would be partially open. The #1 TB will retain the cable attachment and the #4 will retain the TPS.

And it was me that dropped the ball on the original ITB setup pics but I put them all on photobucket now. Sorry for any repeats.

This is the original 42MM ITB setup on my machine with the "velocity stacks" I made. It's only a 3.5 degree angle into the runner.

We gave up trying to do things by the book and just eyeballed the holes. That's Bullett opening up the holes.

Trying to get the linkage working.

Linkage all set up

Bolting them in.

42MM set up finally done.

The cable attachment on the back.


The stock TB's. Already "contoured" by Bullett with a band saw.

Locked and loaded.

We shortened the TB's by almost half an inch to match the height of the 42MM's.

I turned the outside to clean it up a bit. It's also now a standard dimension. In the future we'll try to find some 52mm velocity stacks. This will let us do almost anything to attach them. It also provides me with a concentric diameter and square shoulder if I needed to flip it around for any reason.

Painted up, boring out.

2.047" ID
When we made it a straight 52mm bore all the way through it almost entirely cleaned up at the inlet. You can see there's just a tiny ring of red paint left over on the very edge. Almost like the half inch we took off was planned. I mean, we did plan it that way. From the start.

Hand polished to finish it off. Then do it 3 more times.

And that's where we're at now. I've never had any real formal training so I'm not really sure what's going to happen. We're kind of barreling headfirst into this so it's gonna be interesting. As Bullett mentioned if you have an idea you wanna brainstorm then toss it out there. Next time he sees me he'll take full credit for your idea.


--Steve

Originally posted by DR1665
You've got me thinking, 97 ESi 5-spd, your rev. A ITB setup (on the curves), very mild head work, Crower 2s, LTH, MSnS would make for a fantastic hedge against $4/gal. Inspiration comes full circle.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

You know, the only reason I have a Dremel tool is because, way back in the day, I decided to open up my TB. Fortunately, I wasn't very aggressive. (Didn't want to junk my ONLY TB.) Fierro was able to clean it up on the lathe.

Here's an idea, though, we've all seen those spacers with the corkscrews in them which are supposed to accelerate the intake charge. Sound theory, but I've never seen such a spacer offer that looked like anything more than a turbulence-inducing gimmick.

Suppose you were to do some rifling pre-/post-throttle plate. I'm thinking something with a lower twist rate. Could be gentle, curving grooves carved into the throat, or something more polygonal (a la Glock, and inspired by those waves pictured above).

Taking this idea a step further, picture this tool in your mind's eye...

Something like a short flex hone designed to be pulled through intake plumbing (CAI, IC, intake runners). Each pad has a carbide cutter bit on it fixed in such a position that pulling the device will result in a fairly uniform rifling within whatever tube it is pulled. The leading side could have some kind of universal joint before a ring where a length of wire is attached, ensuring the tool can freely rotate as it moves forward.

The flex-hone format would allow for fitting in various diameters of tubing, and I suspect tension could be adjusted as desired for depth of rifling. You could even do multiple passes through the same tube to increase the bite, as the tool would trace it's own tracks.

Line up the grooves on either side of the TB with those on the outlet of the intake and I suspect you might have a truly rifled intake for that last 3ft before the IM (generally speaking, since you don't have an IM anymore, MB).

Just a thought.

Beyond that, someone ought to make something like the Cyclone intake for the 420A. I can't wait to try out this dual runner business on my Galant this summer.

Go fast.

Holy crap, this is epic. I want a video to hear this bad boy once finished!

I'm glad there's some interest in this huge waste of time and money . One day I'm going to remember to bring the camera to the dyno with me. And that one day I remember to bring it, I will hopefully remember to take a vid of her on the dyno, lol.

Got the 52's pretty much done. Stevie took some pics, but they are on his phone and his computer is on the fritz. All we have left to make is the velocity stacks. Steve's in the process of spinning them now (couldn't find any reasonably priced stacks, so he said he could spin some).

So if these bolt on the car and run (I still need to set-up a throttle cable), I should be back at the dyno relatively soon.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

well to re compensate you, if they don't net you the best hp as the 65mm, then I will gladly take them off your hands =P

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Sick.

Lookin good Mark, I think you will need a bigger gas pedal

96 RS
95 Toyota pickup - 8" lift, 33's (sold)
07 Toyota tacoma - TRD Sport
13 Ford Fusion

I like logic more when it travels in circles.

You are so badass that I am almost incline to believe that the red splatter is actually the sacrificial blood of several virgins. lol Can't wait till it's done.

That looks really nice. Kinda puts it close to the firewall tho.

Finish? What is this "finish" you speak of sir? Dsm's are never complete just temporarily put together.

97 eclipse gone but never forgotten Ill miss you money pit.

First of all, I truly am envious of this setup. Like Brian I always wanted to do this. Great work Bullet.

Looking at your latest design I would be a little concerned about your shaft torquing (or twisting) by the time you get to #4 the butterfly wouldn't be as "open" as the first. Is this something you considered and investigated?

*Edit*

Upon taking a second look I see that there is no return spring on each TB, so I doubt my previous concern has any merit. Again good work, and I'm glad that this tread was "alerted" for some reason. Or else I may have never seen it.

getty up

-kent-




'98 Talon...gone, but not forgotten

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Score, paitiently awaiting more dyno numbers

Looking good!

_____________________________________________
95TalonOwner on DSMTuners.com
Wes Tank on WiDSM.org

Thanks guys.

Originally posted by Slo2g
Score, paitiently awaiting more dyno numbers

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

When is the scheduled date? Also hows the rebuild coming along?

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Jesus! Finally!

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to request a bit more information than that, Mr. Bullett.

http://www.2gnt.com/quote_db.php?id=287

agreed!

Taken from a very reliable source :p
MB: FINALLY got to dyno the 52mm ITB's with good injectors. 210whp with the same curve as the 65mm Mustang TB. ITB's for the loss (in drag racing anyway). But interesting stuff anyway.

Me:glad they are finished... wonder wtf the problem is though. cant believe you are losing power with them. have you tried to consult a velocity expert on the situation only thing i can think of is that you are not running the right size tb's for your application

Someone::( The cylindrical area between the firewall and the edge of the stacks, is this area greater than the area of the TB? It probably is, but all those guys worried about proximity might have something going on, especially between each other where they are combating each other for air.

^this makes a lot of sense^

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

All is not lost. We have a couple ideas but I don't know how much he wants to say.
It's close to the firewall but it's not that tight. It's his fault for wanting a straight shot into the cylinders instead of a curve in the runners.

Edit: I see you sniped those comments from FB. Yes, the injectors were suspect. That was the big great idea.


--Steve

First the 42's;


Then the 52's;


then the comparison:



You can see the drop off's with torque and power in the low range with the 52mm ITB's. By the same token, you can see the extensions in power and torque (as well as the shift in peak power) with the 52mm ITB's

I don't believe that firewall space is an issue, got more than enough room. Cowl induction with a box MAY help at speed, but not sure. My current suspicion is either the ITB's are too small (doubtful) or we have a resonance conflict.

As for torque; the torque numbers fell back to, basically, the same as the 65mm single throttle body. I still like the 42mm ITB's for the street.

Geez it took a long time and lots of effort to get to.....um, pretty much nowhere, lol. But I do have to post up a vid of her running on the ITB's. Just so its out there.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Nice MB.

Now sell me one of the setups.

You can hand deliver in two weeks

Originally posted by teklein
Nice MB. Now sell me one of the setups. You can hand deliver in two weeks

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Wouldn't you be able to gain some low and mid end with slightly longer runners? Reading all this makes me think (and I could be wrong) that the main issue could be runner length. Everything else seems to have been tried, so that would be where I would look. I understand about having short runners to help with top end, but is it possible to have the runners too short? When referring to a resonance issue, could the firewall affect that in any way? Just asking that more for my education, but in my mind it seems like it could have an adverse effect. It would be a shame if you gave up on the ITBs.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Oh yeah, because I may or may not keep this 52mm ITB set-up on, I did make a vid of her reving a few times with the 52mm ITB's. Just for posterity;

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Another thing I was thinking might work (but only if you use longer runners) would be an enclosed ITB setup, like the RB26 engines have. That way, you can still use intake piping to feed the engine while moving and keep velocity stacks on each ITB. Best of both worlds in theory, but it should (again, in theory) be close with resonance to a stock intake manifold. I think with that kind of setup, you will still be able to tune and improve airflow using different size and length velocity stacks and utilize the ram air effect from your bumper mounted intake pipe. I know this could open up a world of new obstacles to overcome, but I know that a setup like that can net more power than a regular styled manifold. If it works for Nissans, I don't see why it wouldn't work on our cars. Peak power may be sacrificed (if at all), but the powerband may be broadened and allow the car to pull harder through more of the rev range. Again, this is just my theory. Yeah, my work day is going good enough today to allow me to think about this...

I've been wanting to do this for years but for a boost box and not intake pipe!

Talk about trailer queen, the thing gets worked on on the trailer!

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm