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Subject: "Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"

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Midniteblack	Nov-12-10 02:35 AM
Member since Nov 12th 2010 10 posts,

#132362, "Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
Nov-12-10 02:39 AM by Midniteblack

Great site you guys have here, I have found a ton of helpful info so far. Anyways, I am going to be replacing my head gasket,timing belt and water pump on my 95' GS here in a couple days. I have a few questions before I begin this task. Also, let me know if it looks like I have everything I need for the job.

things I have purchased for the job.

1. Head Gasket kit and head bolts from Partsdinosaur.com
2. Timing belt with bearings from Partsdinosaur.com
3. Water pump, again from partsdinosaur.com
4. New drive belts
5. Chrysler harmonic balancer puller from Autozone as well as the tool to install the pully.
6. Thermostat, spark plugs, wires, coolant and oil/filter.

I will be having a machine shop check and re-surface my head and install the new valve seals as well.

As for gasket sealants, which ones do I need? Should I spray the HG with copper spray and if so, will the stuff from Autozone be fine? Do i need sealant on the intake gaskets? i know i'll need it on the thermostat housing and valve cover. Water pump doesn't need a sealant, correct?

Also, with the head bolts I bought from partsdinosaur, will I need to cut a few threads off of them or does the MLS gasket take care of the bottoming out/leaking issue. I was looking at the head bolt torque specs on the FSM and some of the torque specs listed in NM don't match up to what they would be in LBS. Should I just torque the bolts by what my Chilton manual says?

I'm a little intimidated with the project, as I have never done a head gasket or timing belt before, just trying to research it to hell so I know i'm ready and I do it right! Let me know if I am missing anything or if you have any other pointers. Thanks everyone!

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RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Administrator

CODE4, Nov-12-10 07:48 AM, #1

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Moderator

bullettdsm, Nov-12-10 01:16 PM, #2

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Midniteblack, Nov-12-10 02:16 PM, #3

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Moderator

bullettdsm, Nov-12-10 08:05 PM, #4

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Midniteblack, Nov-12-10 02:24 PM, #5

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, 420agreenvilleSC, Nov-12-10 04:45 PM, #6

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Midniteblack, Nov-13-10 12:49 AM, #7

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Administrator

CODE4, Nov-13-10 09:04 AM, #8

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Midniteblack, Nov-13-10 02:49 PM, #9

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Moderator

teklein, Nov-14-10 08:22 PM, #10

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Midniteblack, Nov-14-10 11:29 PM, #11

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Moderator

bullettdsm, Nov-15-10 02:20 AM, #12

RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!, Moderator

teklein, Nov-15-10 06:36 AM, #13

CODE4	Nov-12-10 07:48 AM
Member since Nov 23rd 2003 2552 posts,

#132365, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 0
Nov-12-10 07:48 AM by CODE4

Welcome to the site, and it looks like you are on the right track.

Regarding the spray, I personally use the OEM gasket spray, part number 4318035 (avail at dealer ~$10), on my headgasket and intake gaskets. The permatex brand copper spray work as well and many have used it.

The waterpump uses an o-ring to seal against the block - I typically get it slightly wet prior to torquing the waterpump.

You will need a silicone sealant on the valve cover where the gasket crosses over the cam caps (as seen in the FSM).

Regarding the hole depth for head bolts, check with a depth gauge if possible (or use a pencil, and mark a line where the deck is). Those that have had to remove material from the rear driver side bolt had to take a couple threads off. Verify against other bolt holes to ensure it is of the same depth. The MLS gasket will have little affect on the issue.

Torque specs:

Short bolts are 28 + 1/4 turn (NM) / 20 + 1/4 turn (lbs/ft).

Long bolts - you are correct, the FSM states:
87 + 1/4 turn (NM) and 48 + 1/4 turn (lbs/ft).

87 NM actually equals about 64 lbs/ft. Beats me. I have always used head studs so I have not run into this problem.

---

2012 2500HD LML

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bullettdsm	Nov-12-10 01:16 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2676 posts,

#132366, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 1

Originally posted by CODE4
Torque specs: Short bolts are 28 + 1/4 turn (NM) / 20 + 1/4 turn (lbs/ft). Long bolts - you are correct, the FSM states: 87 + 1/4 turn (NM) and 48 + 1/4 turn (lbs/ft). 87 NM actually equals about 64 lbs/ft. Beats me. I have always used head studs so I have not run into this problem.

Yeah, I don't believe those specs (I mean I believe you looked them up etc., but I believe they are wrong).

Long bolts should be 50 (lbs/ft)+ 1/4 turn (obviously in steps) and the short bolts should be 35 (lbs/ft)+ 1/4 turn (in steps) when using a MLS gasket.

These are specs I have used many times. They are a 1998 revision from AERA for MLS headgaskets for our cars.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

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Midniteblack	Nov-12-10 02:16 PM
Member since Nov 12th 2010 10 posts,

#132367, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 2

Thanks for the info guys! Yeah, I have been reading different torque specs all over the place. My Chilton says one thing, the FSM says different but very similar to the Chilton and then the DIY engine rebuilt on this site says something totally different. I'm still not very confident on which one is correct.

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bullettdsm	Nov-12-10 08:05 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2676 posts,

#132370, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 3

Originally posted by Midniteblack
Thanks for the info guys! Yeah, I have been reading different torque specs all over the place. My Chilton says one thing, the FSM says different but very similar to the Chilton and then the DIY engine rebuilt on this site says something totally different. I'm still not very confident on which one is correct.

I am

Here's the gig; the Chilton's and the FSM were based on a composite headgasket, not the MLS which we use for replacement now. Now that we use the MLS, AERA (http://www.aera.org/) came up with new specs (which, as I stated) I have used many times.

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Midniteblack	Nov-12-10 02:24 PM
Member since Nov 12th 2010 10 posts,

#132368, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 1

Originally posted by CODE4
You will need a silicone sealant on the valve cover where the gasket crosses over the cam caps (as seen in the FSM).

I'm going to need to put that silicone sealant underneath the cam caps before I install them to the head too, right?

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420agreenvilleSC	Nov-12-10 04:45 PM
Donating 2GNT member 1527 posts,

#132369, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 5

am i missing this or do i not see a mechanical or hydraulic tensioner...

if not, plz go mechanical!

___________________________________________

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Outside of Corona: "That sucks, peace out..." (jamie walks away)... "Sweeet, what we doin?" -Zac
Tim's garage (prior to motor install): "Im gonna smoke real quick, that way if you fuck up I am already nicotined up" -Tim

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Midniteblack	Nov-13-10 12:49 AM
Member since Nov 12th 2010 10 posts,

#132371, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 6
Nov-13-10 03:45 AM by Midniteblack

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC
am i missing this or do i not see a mechanical or hydraulic tensioner... if not, plz go mechanical!

I was hoping to use the hydraulic tensioner the car already has on it? Is that not a wise choice?

Are there any other torque specs I need to know about that are different than what my Chilton book says besides the new head bolt specs for the MLS? Also, I will measure the head bolt holes to see if the rear driver side one is the same depth as the others, but should I just cut a few threads off the bolt anyways for safety's sake?

Thanks again for your comments so far guys, you're a big help!

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CODE4	Nov-13-10 09:04 AM
Member since Nov 23rd 2003 2552 posts,

#132374, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 7

Originally posted by Midniteblack
I was hoping to use the hydraulic tensioner the car already has on it? Is that not a wise choice? Are there any other torque specs I need to know about that are different than what my Chilton book says besides the new head bolt specs for the MLS? Also, I will measure the head bolt holes to see if the rear driver side one is the same depth as the others, but should I just cut a few threads off the bolt anyways for safety's sake? Thanks again for your comments so far guys, you're a big help!

Hydraulics work fine, but if you have some miles accumulated on it, making the switch to a mechanical tensioner is an easy & reliable swap.

Regarding the torque specs, Bullett already told you which ones to go with. Trust his word on it.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Long bolts should be 50 (lbs/ft)+ 1/4 turn (obviously in steps) and the short bolts should be 35 (lbs/ft)+ 1/4 turn (in steps) when using a MLS gasket. These are specs I have used many times. They are a 1998 revision from AERA for MLS headgaskets for our cars.

---

2012 2500HD LML

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Midniteblack	Nov-13-10 02:49 PM
Member since Nov 12th 2010 10 posts,

#132375, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 8
Nov-13-10 02:51 PM by Midniteblack

Oh no, I trust him, i'm going with what he said. I was asking if there were any other revisions to anything else that this damn Chilton book is hiding from me.

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teklein	Nov-14-10 08:22 PM
Member since Nov 04th 2007 1699 posts,

#132376, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 9

Originally posted by Midniteblack
Oh no, I trust him, i'm going with what he said. I was asking if there were any other revisions to anything else that this damn Chilton book is hiding from me.

I use the Permatex copper spray-a-gasket, which according to a reliable Neons.org poster its the same as the dealer.

Also, if you are planning on keeping this car for a while I highly recommend ARP headstuds.

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Midniteblack	Nov-14-10 11:29 PM
Member since Nov 12th 2010 10 posts,

#132377, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 10
Nov-15-10 06:36 AM by teklein

Well, got my head and all of the other crap off that comes along with it. Took longer than I expected, what a pain. Had a hard time with the motor mount bracket like I knew I would. Then i decided to take off the rear motor mount to jack the motor up and the bracket came right out.

Just to verify. Are the black pieces circled in red the rubber grommets for the valve cover bolts? They don't really look like the ones that are already on there but I don't know what else they could be. Also, what about the thin green gasket circled in blue, cam sensor gasket? It kind of looks like it but it has little ribs on it.

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bullettdsm	Nov-15-10 02:20 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2676 posts,

#132378, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 11

Yes and yes.

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teklein	Nov-15-10 06:36 AM
Member since Nov 04th 2007 1699 posts,

#132379, "RE: Head Gasket/Timing Belt install. Some questions!"
In response to Reply # 11

Originally posted by Midniteblack
Well, got my head and all of the other crap off that comes along with it. Took longer than I expected, what a pain. Had a hard time with the motor mount bracket like I knew I would. Then i decided to take off the rear motor mount to jack the motor up and the bracket came right out. Just to verify. Are the black pieces circled in red the rubber grommets for the valve cover bolts? They don't really look like the ones that are already on there but I don't know what else they could be. Also, what about the thin green gasket circled in blue, cam sensor gasket? It kind of looks like it but it has little ribs on it. http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2111/gasket.jp g

I fixed your picture. You only need to put in the web address to the picture on 2gnt. It will automatically make it a image.

You put the washers that are on top of your current VC grommets onto the new ones.

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