Posting this because I am dying of anticipation. After waiting for about a month in line, finally got my dyno tune date for July 10th. Beware Colby! I plan on shattering your dyno numbers by at least a solid 3hp!!

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Good luck dude! Nothing beats a little friendly competition.

1999 Eclipse GS
Built motor
Hahn 16G Turbo w/ FMIC
Hahn Stage 5 Portfueler (270's & 500's)
Zeitronix Zt-2 wideband w/ 3.5bar MAP
3" SS Turbo Back
CM Stage 4 Clutch and Fidanza Flywheel
Baer Big Brake Kit

Cant wait to see the numbers! If you break my dyno numbers Ill just have to go back to mine lol.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Heres some motivation for you.

With correction, 167.4. We'll see what the difference between an AFX ecu and Megasquirt is.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Lol, this is fun.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

It will be AFX ECU + "SAFC2" vs MSnS. And please don't go back to your car after! I'm low on funds :p. I know it will be close. Are mods are about identical, except for a few small things.

For those who don't know, beyond the tuning devices(obviously we already mentioned that) Colby has the advantage of the 60mm TB, where I am running the 55-57mm tb. I have the extra mods of the crank scrapper and have my cam gears tuned via Fidanza cam gears. Beyond that everything is about the same I believe. A lot is going to come down to shop vs shop of which shop ports and tunes better.

Fun little fact, we are both going to be using a mustang dyno!

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

6 Days away and already a problem, tranny problems. My TOB has been rattling for awhile, but had 2 instances of the car pulling out of 3rd gear during this week (happened around the 5.5-7k range). Think that means I'll be needing a new transmission before I can go to the drag strip *sigh* hopefully having them tune my car in 2nd or 4th gear wont throw things off.

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

leh sigh, and the bad news keeps on coming, 3 days away and my fiances digital camera breaks, now I'm gonna be forced to call around to find a way to record the event for you all, would hate to have this done off my cell phone. On the bright side 3 DAYS

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Soooooooooooo.... Dropped my car off last night to get the cam gears installed (i hate messing with timing). Then the guy told me that they double booked the dyno for Saturday, and that there is a DSM club coming in that has it reserved all day ><. Damn dsms err i mean...
Anyways He told me he is going to try and get things installed and it tuned in today or if he has any time to do it on Saturday, if not it should get done Monday.

What this all means is I wont have any idea when my car is getting dyno tuned till I get a phone call. Once more, there is a good chance I will miss watching it get tuned because of having to secure a ride 45 mins away at a phone calls notice.. Well hoping for the best I will keep you all updated.

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Cant wait to hear the results. I have yet to install cam gears, thats what I should be saving up for next. So AFX ECU + SAFC and adj cam gears vs. Megasquirt n Spark and stock cam gears.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

sigh... damn DSMers took up the dyno all day today.. I don't get it when there is a awd dyno challenge in wakeman.. the aye holes. I'm told me car will maybe be done monday, tuesday at the very latest.

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

So they got my car on the dyno yesterday while i was out of town doing family stuff so missed everything, another ><... On the bright side going to pick it up early today, kind of scared this whole experience has been filled with bad omens.

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Sadly my scanner is down, so I will work on posting the report later. Overall I was disappointed, I think I am getting parasitic loss form my transmission which 3rd gear is starting to go out, that and I feel I could make some really good numbers if I got some higher compression and a rebuild.

Anyways I my baseline was 144hp/135 TQ, after tuning the safc and cam gears we only picked up a measly 4hp (least I know the AFX ECU is doing its job) bringing the total to 148hp@6300/136TQ@4350

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Thanks for the words, and yes i know they are decent numbers, but for having almost the same mods as Colby i expected better.
Here is my mod list

Bolt-on Modifications:
AEM SRI w/heat shield, DC Headers, Apexi Catback, Odessy Optimum Battery, High Flow Catalytic Converter, Polyurethane Motor Mounts, Carbon Fiber Hood, Fiberglass Fenders, Ported TB to 55mm, P&P Intake Manifold, Unorthadox Racing UDP, Aluminum Radiator w/ OBX radiator hoses, Ishihara-Johnson Crank Scraper

Engine Management:
AFX ECU + Apexi SAFC2

Engine Internals:
Cylinder Head P&P, Crower Stage 2 Cams, Fidanza Adjustable Cam Gears, Crower Springs and Retainer Set

Suspension Modifications:
ADR rims, Eibach Sportline Springs, Falken Azenis RT-615's (front only)

Wish List: 60mm TB, AMM IM, possibly a rebuild with higher comp pistons

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Not bad at all my man. You must have a HUGE weight advantage over me if were running the same times with a 20 WHP difference. Either that or I just cant drive lol. From that list the only mod I have above you is a 60 MM TB, which will help you a lot, and an AEM V2. I also had to put my stock pulley back on, but I will be getting an unorthodox soon. How are those BTW?

Id say your biggest difference comes from tunability. Just with MS I have like a 15hp advantage. As far as I know AFXs arent balls to the wall aggressive, just aggressive, lol.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Actually if you are comparing time vs time, then you had close to a 30whp advantage =P. My time was put up before the crank-scrapper, cylinder head port and cam gears.

As for the udp, I personally see a huge difference in rpm climbing in the power-band range, but not sure how big of a difference you will see if comparing ebay udp to the UR udp.

Like I said I am seriously considering the 60mm, and I just PMed AMM about an IM. Also considering getting an AEM V2 for the track, but right now biggest thing holding me back is $$$.. so accepting all sponsors!!

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Where were you guys five years ago when I was playing this game?

It was Kaluga and Todd and then this a-hole from Connecticut showed up and started schooling everyone with his demonic, chainsaw-sounding RS.

Real wheelmen take all the fun out of being a hack.

I know I'm almost completely ghost these days, but I think this thread is more 2GNT than just about anything posted to this forum in the last six years.

When you guys get down on yourselves because you don't make Bullett numbers or get rolled by a GST or something, let this thought get you back in the saddle...

Your cars are not what they were when you bought them. They are your own. They may not be the fastest in the world, but someone is always faster no matter what you drive. You are putting serious thought into your mods and testing them to share the results with the community.

You are more 2GNT than 99% of the people on this board. Ten years ago, before Juan drove an Evo, before Avenger drove an RX8, before Murix drove an Elise, before Dino knew what he was talking about, before Kulaga drove a child-molester's Corvette, before so many sycophants ran out and bought Evos, 2GNT was people with 2GNTs talking about NT mods, comparing NT results, and working on lower NT times.

The brotherhood that is 2GNT, that makes this place more like a family and less like a forum or internet hellaflush frat-house considers the path YOU are taking as its foundation.

Don't let the bastards grind you down. Go fast with class.

Thanks for the kind words, and I wish you were in the game still. Its almost like its an exclusive club =P. I gotta say that I love when I get a new pm asking about my opinion on which part over another on the 420a. (although I completely hate when there is a new thread on dsmtuners saying "bought a 420a what do I do to make hp!?!??!" for the millionth time..)

Colby, I was looking at are stuff, and I am surprised at the fact that while you have a 20whp lead, I am only 3lbs of TQ back, funny how even the same engines are different. Cant wait to see you at the track so we can help each-other with driving and lowering those times! Btw after the udp, I think its time for you to start investing in weight reduction.

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

finally got the scanner to somewhat work

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

WOW, you have quite a different graph than me.




Your HP seems to be pretty steep, mine is a lot slower building.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

BTW, what are you taking your car up to RPM wise?

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

The more I compare the graphs, the more it seems like I am pulling more hp than you until about the 5800+ range then I about level out, while you keep climbing, makes me wonder if I am somewhat capping because of only an SRI as well, because you said your V2 really opened you up... I wish I had a data logger. I also have a higher TQ Starting off,(which is probably helping me get off the line a tad quicker) but beyond that our TQ lines are about even, and we both have a peak close to where the next gear would begin during a shift(if that makes sense).

As for shifting, I normally shift around 7k-7400, according to the dyno graph I'm not making that much extra hp (if any) but at least that way I know when I shift I will be closer into shifting into my power-band for the next gear. I wish the chart showed closer to the 7k-7400 range so I know how bad if any it is tapering off. I'm going to edit my chart so its easier to see the numbers, because that scan is rather crappy.

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

hopefully this makes it easier to read

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Interesting graphs. Too bad they're not on the same scale. If you could pull some shared data point out of both of them and then plot them in an Excel graph, you could get a little better idea how things compare on the same scale. A bit tricky to do that, though.

I see how variations in intake diameter plays a role in the torque curves. One car has the 60mm TB and AEM V2, while the other has 55-57mm TB and SRI. The V2 is supposed to apply Hemholtz resonance, but I don't know that I see that. Maybe it's shifted the torque ramp up towards the left on the plot, but without a normal CAI on there to compare, who knows.

The TB and larger intake diameter certainly make for more throttle response and a couple more ponies top end, but on a car that's mostly driven on the street, I think I'd rather keep the lb-ft down low.

Maybe find a stock exhaust header and downpipe, ship THOSE to AMM and have him build you a real LTH. Nobody's done that yet. (Had AMM build one.) I have the factory cat-back up in my garage rafters, but no header/downpipe. AMM and I have talked about this many times over the years, but never moved on it.

I think the plots above demonstrate intake charge velocity variations and how they affect the torque curve. Mark can correct me if I'm wrong, but torque is your 60ft time, while HP is your MPH. Torque is acceleration power.

Tried my hand at excel to make some comparison graphs, if i get more time I'll add mark in to for fun =P (yes i know comparison is spelled wrong in the charts, not going back to fix it) Anyways, these aren't 100% accurate, but basically what I could try to interpret out of these graphs

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Nice comparison. You can see Im making more power, but your power comes in sooner than mine. And your torque also seems to be stronger down low. Most likely because you have more velocity in your intake with a smaller TB and manifold, and possibly some of the Ign. timing down low, mines not spot on for sure.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

While, as I stated before, I was originally disappointed with my dyno numbers, after seeing this comparison and comparing our times I am happy for a few reasons.

For one it just makes me think differently about a few things. Before I was all Jeremy Clarkson "POWER!!!!!!!!!" but now I am thinking of going a different route. My first gut instinct was "I need a 60mm and an AMM IM for more HP" But now I am leaning more towards keeping as much low end as I can with improving the overall curve.

I think in the end (after we both get some really good runs) it will help other 420a's consider different routes, and almost be a nice experiment. Mass top end vs. Even overall. Granted it wont be the most accurate, after all their is the weight difference in the cars, and of course different drivers etc. but it could serve for some nice information on hitting the 14's for futures 2GNTers(I hope this makes sense).

I think for my next mods I'm saving up for what I'd imagine would be a much needed rebuild, with a possibility of high compression pistons (this will take much research of course), but overall just mods that can increase the overall curve instead of the sacrificing low end for high HP.

*edit*
MARK! When the hell are you going to chime in on all this?

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Lot of Variables you are not considering.

1. Colby and your dyno's. Not on the same dyno and not on the same day with same weather conditions. Every single dyno will read different, doesnt matter if they are both Mustang or not.

2. Weather condition play a huge role turbocharged or not. Barometric pressure is a huge factor on airflow in heads. Head will flow the most right before a storm where the barometric is at its lowest. Its a fact ask anyone with a flowbench.

3. Humidity and ambiant temp play a huge role in the quality of air and therefore output.

I have personally seen as much as 22% difference when comparings different dyno's and different weather conditions combined just on a flow bench alone! That data can be directly transferred to output on a dyno.

Your not comparing apples to apples here. In fact you can prolly go back on a different day and get numbers that are 5-10% different.

If you want an accurate challenge then get colby to meet you at the shop on the same day and dyno both of them then.

Terry