this is going to be kind of long. my car stalled on me coming into the parking lot at work and would crank normally but not start. i got it in the shop and found it had no spark but was getting power to the coil but no signal on either circuit. i traced it back to a faulty crank sensor. put the new crank sensor and connector in and it started up, ran for 3 seconds and stalled. after that it started cranking over differently. it sounds almost like it's cranking over weak and the motor isn't spinning over very fast. i test the battery - it passed. i tested the starter, it failed electrically. i put the starter from my other car in, that tested good electrically and it's still doing the same thing. the timing is still good. i tested the spark again and it's getting 1 spark for every like 5 seconds of cranking. the starter from the other car has been sitting a while. is it possible that starter is mechanically bad or should i look elsewhere? please help. this problem is kicking my ass.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

Check your grounds. It is possible that the starter is bad, but the starter does not control spark.

Also, check your coil and the wire harness by your EGR tube, if you still have it.

yes but is it possible if the engine is not cranking over fast enough the crank sensor won't read the reluctor wheel right? i checked the harness to the coil. i don't have the egr system.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

The starter is cranking the engine right? If so it's not your starter.

If you're getting intermittant spark then there's some other issue

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

it's cranking but it sounds strange. it's not turning over like it did before it stalled the 2nd time after the crank sensor replacement.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

i tried it with the battery charged hooked directly to the starter and it was still the same.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

i've done it with our battery charger hooked up to the battery in jumpstart mode too. makes no difference.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

Your battery cables may be taking a dump. try connecting the jump box to the starter directly where the battery cables connect to it.

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

i did that already. see 2 posts up.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

Pull the starter and take it to get it bench tested? If the starter is spinning slowly it's a 99% chance that it's just not getting enough juice. Maybe your jump box isn't strong enough?

Your ignition issue still isn't due to a weak starter. Have you checked the cam sensor?

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

yeah i took the starter i put in and had it bench tested at Autozone yesterday. it passed. the battery charger should be plenty strong. it's my shops Midtronics GM battery charger that we use. I swapped in the the Cam sensor from the other car a couple days ago. same result. I'm honestly stumped on this. I'm wondering if i may have something else locked up like an accessory pulley.

what else can cause a spark signal issue besides crank and cam signals? i have checked power, ground and 5v signal to both. from what I've read in the schematics the ASD relay only controls power supply to the coil i believe.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

check connection going to your connectors, and the connect to the terminals on the battery.

also, check your crank sensor plug. Make sure pins contact, and also make sure wiring going to the plug is secure and not coming out.

check that method with not only your crank sensor, but your coil, and cam sensor, etc.

something's making intermittant contact. you need to source it. it's either a plug going to a sensor, or a pin in a sensor itsself

___________________________________________



http://www.2gnt.com/quote_db.php?id=278

Outside of Corona: "That sucks, peace out..." (jamie walks away)... "Sweeet, what we doin?" -Zac
Tim's garage (prior to motor install): "Im gonna smoke real quick, that way if you fuck up I am already nicotined up" -Tim

yeah, I've done that already. I put a new connector in with the Crank sensor because it was full of oil and i double checked my work to make sure it was right. I checked the connectors at the Cam sensor and coil too. I even went the through the PCM connector and made sure it was good. at this point I'm almost thinking that i may have a failed PCM. I've checked continuity to both crank and cam sensors. I'll do some more testing when i get back to the shop on Monday.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

you have signal at all sensors at the plug & at the ecu? If so, you may have a failed/failing ECU then. have a spare you can try?

___________________________________________



http://www.2gnt.com/quote_db.php?id=278

Outside of Corona: "That sucks, peace out..." (jamie walks away)... "Sweeet, what we doin?" -Zac
Tim's garage (prior to motor install): "Im gonna smoke real quick, that way if you fuck up I am already nicotined up" -Tim

It's been a while, so I'm a bit rusty, but I can't recall.

I thought the ASD cut signal to the coil and not power.

Have you tested/swapped out the ASD relay?

If you have, then I guess it's time to try swapping ECUs, although those never seem to be the problem unless the car is a 95.

I swapped in the ASD relay i had laying around the other day but I'm not sure it's good because I replaced it before because the fuel pump relay attached to it went bad.

The car is a 99. I actually did swap in my other ECU. it didn't change but I have a question. the other ECU was out of my 98. that car was built in May of 98 and the ECU case has the same numbers on it as the 99 ECU. this should be the same part number and work right?

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

A friend of mine just picked up a 95 RS for his GF and it had a slow spinning starter and no start issue. Turns out it was the timing it jumped 4 teeth. Now we did get it started before it jumped teeth (There was a shop rag int he belt) and when we did get it started it was spinning slow, turns out the oil was overfilled, we drained it a bit and it turned over fine after that.
Are you 100% positive the timing is right?

yeah, I've checked the timing twice. My cam gears are exposed so it's real easy to check it lol. i know the oil isn't over filled either.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

can someone tell me what the voltage range should be while cranking for the crank sensor 5v reference wire. I'm only seeing from 0 - 2.93v while cranking at the PCM connector. getting 1 spark when cranking and maybe 3 pulses at the injectors and then both stop. have power from the ASD relay. I'm leaning towards PCM here.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

okay here's an update on the problem. tested the voltage drop at the starter today. with the battery charger hooked to the battery, had around 15 volts at the starter. cranking it drops down to around 9 volts at first then goes back up to around 10 volts. I'm guessing i either have a starter problem or battery cable problem. any other ideas?

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

Maybe the jump box is dying?

You did say that the starter tested good, and that you've tried the jump box connected right at the starter. Bad cables can usually be tested by looking for a voltage drop between the battery and the starter. If the voltage drops suddenly during cranking I'm not sure what would cause that.

Perhaps something else is pulling a huge draw under cranking? That could possibly lead to the spark issue as well. If the coil isn't getting enough power it won't be able to build a good spark.

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

yeah, that's true. but I'm not sure what could be causing the draw though. I read somewhere that if the voltage at the starter drops below 10 volts that the starter is drawing excessive amperage. but when they bench tested it, it wasn't under load. I'm still very skeptical that i have 2 bad starters though. i think i do need to look for a draw under cranking elsewhere.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

okay here's another update on this issue. I put a new starter in because that was the most logical conclusion. it's still doing the exact same thing. turning over slowly and sounds like it has no compression. I believe I have something pulling down the entire power circuit. i found the power wire from the battery (which was relocated to the rear of the vehicle) to the junction block in the engine bay looks melted and burnt at the junction block. I'm working on getting some better battery cables but for the time being I'm going to move the battery back up front and see if it'll fire up. if not I'm gonna start going through the power wires to the fuse block to see where the short is.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

can someone tell me what the voltage range should be while cranking for the crank sensor 5v reference wire. I'm only seeing from 0 - 2.93v while cranking at the PCM connector. getting 1 spark when cranking and maybe 3 pulses at the injectors and then both stop. have power from the ASD relay. I'm leaning towards PCM here.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig

If your coil has 12V+ then the ASD is fine.

Check the Cam sensor harness for power (8v/GrD/Third is ECU signal wire) if your not getting the 8v+ thenthe ECU took a shit. Common and that will affect your spark.

The Cam and Crank sensors get 8v from the same wire of the ECU. So if the Cam sensor si getting power then you should be getting power at the Crank sensor unless the harness is damaged.

Verify the harness plug under the intake is not loose. This will result in a loss of Crank signal.

well the thing is I'm getting everything i need at the connectors. I'm getting 8v, ground and 5v on the signal wires at the connectors. with the sensors plugged in I'm only getting 0 - 2.93v while cranking on the signal wire from the crank sensor. I'm getting very intermittent spark signal and injector pulse.

wiki homepage: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Hazard_Eclipse

19:22:36 ‹hazard_eclipse› btw disclaimer: I am NOT hazardeclipse
19:23:10 ‹ez› 19:14:00 ‹hazard_eclipse› i honestly hate yellow.
19:23:25 ‹hazard_eclipse› lol good you saw that
19:23:55 ‹ez› you should put that in your sig