Ok I got a few questions for ya. How long will it take to do a rebuild on internals for a 98rs with 29,000 miles on it. If i do it myself and probably 1 or two friends. ( all of us are good with tools and working with machines) 2. If i have a shop do it how much is the average for the rebuild. 3. What else will i need to do or check while changing out the rods and pistons(the rebuild kit from howell) 4. Saying i run 94 octane (not 93) all the time would i be better getting the 10.6:1 compression or staying with the stock compression ration. I am seriously considering doing internals before boosting. Figured i'll do the engine work in feb-mar time and then slap on the turbo kit after inspection in apr. That way i'm good for two years not having to worry if i'm gonna pass inspection (smog for you cali peeps)
Thanks for any and all information you guys can hook me up with
Gerard

2006 WW IX MR
2003 BBY EVO VIII (sold)
256.9WHP & 277.9torque
http://s90395832.onlinehome.us/forum//index.php?sid=a70942a7f65043e6c873e12dcd300692

1998 Eclipse RS --show car--

>Ok I got a few questions for ya. How long will it take to
>do a rebuild on internals for a 98rs with 29,000 miles on
>it. If i do it myself and probably 1 or two friends. ( all

Myself and my Uncle (a 30 yr master machinist who's done countless rebuilds) almost did it in a day, but then, "it ain't my first rodeo," as he'd put it.

>of us are good with tools and working with machines) 2. If
>i have a shop do it how much is the average for the rebuild.

If you take it to an engine shop and not a "performance" shop, could be $500-700, with your parts.

> 3. What else will i need to do or check while changing out
>the rods and pistons(the rebuild kit from howell) 4. Saying

The kit comes with bearings, or course. Polish the crank journals, oil pump just for that added assurance .. may as well do the timing belt since you're in there.

>i run 94 octane (not 93) all the time would i be better
>getting the 10.6:1 compression or staying with the stock
>compression ration. I am seriously considering doing

If you're buying from Howell, stock isn't an option. 8.6, 10.5, 12.5. I'd go 10.5, if you have 94 available and you feel comfortable running high compression with boost.

>internals before boosting. Figured i'll do the engine work
>in feb-mar time and then slap on the turbo kit after
>inspection in apr. That way i'm good for two years not
>having to worry if i'm gonna pass inspection (smog for you
>cali peeps)
>Thanks for any and all information you guys can hook me up
>with
>Gerard

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

I can bulid a domestic short block in about an afternoon. That is of course all machining is done and there's no blood on my knuckles. Unless you have built engines before, I would highly suggest not trying to get it done in a day or two. If you break a ring or knick a bearing, you have order a whole new set. Read a service manual about what tolerences and proceedures are required. Building an engine is a really great way of making sure everything is done properly. I've seen some serious f*ck-ups put together perfectly good running engines. If you go slow and stop if something isn't going your way, then you'll be fine. Just watch out for pistons facing the right direction, check ring clearences to insure that the rings will seat,Plastic-gauge EVERYTHING, and I recommend using a graphite lube when assembling shit b/c oil doesn't stay on bearings long and will winding up dripping off before start-up/break-in. A shop can put together an engine in a day if the person is really good or really sloppy. Expect a week or two. Hope this helps

Shit is all apart. Typical...

1)Does everyone here recommend balancing their engines when doing a rebuild with new internals? I called around to a few machine shops in town and brought that up, and they thought that sort of thing is only for race engines....sheesh!

2)Regarding the pistons...I notice most here go with the ole JE pistons? Does this piston have a high enough silicone content to avoid "piston slap" on a cold morning or do you just make sure and specify a close enough piston wall clearance per piston?

Thanks fellas!

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

>1)Does everyone here recommend balancing their engines when
>doing a rebuild with new internals? I called around to a
>few machine shops in town and brought that up, and they
>thought that sort of thing is only for race
>engines....sheesh!

I didn't. Vibrates at idle, but i think it's more due to the motor mounts. It never ran that smooth anyway, so it doesn't bother me. Why pay the extra $100 for the 2HP it could possibly give you, when you can just turn that little screw..

>
>2)Regarding the pistons...I notice most here go with the ole
>JE pistons? Does this piston have a high enough silicone
>content to avoid "piston slap" on a cold morning or do you
>just make sure and specify a close enough piston wall
>clearance per piston?

We just ran the clearance as tight as we could by JE's specs. On a cold morning, it slaps a little bit (that diesel sound), but i just drive it off. Most of the 4g63 guys don't like JEs because of that fact, but it doesn't bother me at all.. By the time i blow it up again, i hope to be able to pull it myself and drive my other car to work. I believe "they" mostly recommend Wiesco or Arias pistons.

>
>Thanks fellas!

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Here are some tips from myself. I've had my engine rebuilt twice...once from a crackhead shop, and second done by myself.

1) doing it yourself or by a shop depends if a) you got the time. Its NOT going to get done in a day or two. You want to get it done right, even if that means it takes a week. b) your money situation. Its going to cost between 500-1000 to be done RIGHT by a shop if you give them all the parts. c) how much downtime you can have. A shop may take anywhere from 2 days to a few weeks depending how busy they are or how good they are. Expect the GOOD shops to be the most busy ones but that can redo your engine in a few days. Stay away from shops that say they cant give you a good quote until they do the work. Stay away from shops that say it will take a month or two. Stay away from shops that are NOT familiar with your engine! Make sure you get a break down of price quotes for each specific job you are having a machine shop do on your engine. If you need some good references for machine shops in the PA/DE/MD area, let me know. If you are in an area you have no clue about good shops, call around. Call a few performance shops and ask what they recommend. Once you narrow down to a few good shops, call them and ask if they have experience with your specific engine. If they dont, ask if they have experience with 4 cylinder engines. Beware of shops that are strictly "V8" shops. A lot of the technology and techniques of rebuilding a V8 engine DOES NOT apply to our I4 engines. Boring/honing technique will vary.

2)I run 10:1 compression and love it. I'd recommend staying away from 8.6:1 pistons unless you can deal with bad low end power. stay with stock compression if you want an all-around good power-making car.

3)While you get your engine rebuilt...spend the extra 200 bucks and get a set of head and bottom end ARP studs. If you cant get the bottom end, at least get the head studs. Then make sure you use the MLS head gasket, and have the biatch torqued to ARP specs. You should never have to deal with head gasket problems again. Stay away from copper head gaskets. They are just trouble (trust me, and i'm sure others will agree)

4)ALWAYS HAVE YOUR SHORT BLOCK ASSEMBLY BALANCED!!! Aftermarket rods/pistons dont always have 100% perfect balances. Having your shortblock assembly blanced by a good shop will assure you of correct bearing wear. Dont do it, and expect to be rebuilding your engine within 50k miles again. I mean, a balance job should cost you less than $100 bucks!!!

5) Even though your engine has 29k on it, I would recommend having your cylinders bored .020" over with a diamond bit and polished. A good shop should know how to do it.

6) If you have trouble finding a piston/rod combination that is 9.6:1 with a overbore of .020", try Under Pressure Racing and Distribution (www.uprd.com). They have some guys that deal with the neon engine and were able to get me a set of pauter rods (REALLY nice rods by the way) and wiseco/je pistons within 1-2 weeks per your spec. I'd stay awy from CNNP (sorry but i've dealt with them way too many times with way too many unhappy friends of mine), HRC always is out of stock on parts (if you get them, you are lucky). If all else fails, call up crower and JE Pistons directly and place an order for your spec. It will take around 2-3 weeks for parts to arrive.

7) You can save some good cash by removing the engine/tranny yourself. All you need is some time, and engine hoist (you can rent t hese usually), and a service manual.

Hope this helps. I just hate when people get taken advantage by shops when they either dont know what they need or dont understand whats necessary to get things done correctly and speedy. These tips are also from doing engine work for friends. I hope i'm not just repeating things =)

Vinnie
aka Kiku
1997 Chrysler Sebring
HRC Stage 2.3156 and 1/3
kiku@asog.net

_________________
Vinnie Lima
vlima@csc.com
AIM: Kiku888
1997 Chrysler Sebring "Silver XTC"
I4 420a w/ HRC Stage 2.45 w/ FMIC
14.7@97 mph@6psi
Proud member of the
ASOG BoOsT JuNkIe Crew

Great advice Kiku.

Thanks!

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Something important that wasn't mentioned. A little known fact to many amateur engine builders, is that it's ESSENTIAL to thoroughly scrub/wash the cylinder walls AND pistons, with a mixture of dishwashing soap and water before assembling. During the honing process, an electrical charge is formed from the intense friction. This charge attracts particles(basically like a static charge) and they stick. The dishwashing soap will reverse the polarity of the charge, and release these abrasive particles(dirt). It only takes a very, very small amount of dirt to cause excessive piston skirt wear. It's one of the biggest causes of pistons failure, next to improper installation/measuring.

1999 GS

1991 Mustang GT

Gerard,

You can do it yourself. The quote "big time engine builders" don't do anything you can't do. Yes they have the machines in house to do a lot of the work, but you can send out for machine work, and if you take your time you can do anything that they do. If you get into trouble call myself or some one with knowledge to get you out of a jam. The factory service manuals tell you most everything you need. Take your time, double and triple check yourself and you can do it. Anybody can.

Gary

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

does everyone reccomend boring .020 over. I haven't heard too many peeps that are going turbo doing this or am i assuming this. And what is everyone opinion on rods and pistons. Which ones are the best to go with..
TIA
Gerard

2006 WW IX MR
2003 BBY EVO VIII (sold)
256.9WHP & 277.9torque
http://s90395832.onlinehome.us/forum//index.php?sid=a70942a7f65043e6c873e12dcd300692

1998 Eclipse RS --show car--

>does everyone reccomend boring .020 over. I haven't heard
>too many peeps that are going turbo doing this or am i
>assuming this. And what is everyone opinion on rods and
>pistons. Which ones are the best to go with..
>TIA
>Gerard

It depends. You bore when the engine needs it. The wear is usally not bad in the blocks we build. On turbo I always bore to .020 over size. I do this, because with the turbos I want to make sure the bore is straight.

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

Hey Gary,

One one question I had and was wondering, and haven't found any confirming information on, with your experience that you could answer.

Are the short blocks out of other 420a's in SOHC and DOHC Neons, the exact same as the short blocks in our own 420a's (save for those 95 differences that become all 420a's)? For these purposes 96+? Even the motor mounts?

Also, if you were to buy one of those short blocks for a rebuild (using your rebuild kit), besides the crankshaft, is there anything else you might need from the stock core?

Thanks again!
Jason

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

what about this overbore stuff(i need more info on it) and what are the better rods and pistons to go with. Thanks Again

2006 WW IX MR
2003 BBY EVO VIII (sold)
256.9WHP & 277.9torque
http://s90395832.onlinehome.us/forum//index.php?sid=a70942a7f65043e6c873e12dcd300692

1998 Eclipse RS --show car--

>what about this overbore stuff(i need more info on it) and
>what are the better rods and pistons to go with. Thanks
>Again

The JE Pistons and Eagle rods are nice peices that we sell. Over bore is done to true the cylinder walls, when they become out of shape from wear.

Gary

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

>Hey Gary,
>
>One one question I had and was wondering, and haven't found
>any confirming information on, with your experience that you
>could answer.
>
>Are the short blocks out of other 420a's in SOHC and DOHC
>Neons, the exact same as the short blocks in our own 420a's
>(save for those 95 differences that become all 420a's)? For
>these purposes 96+? Even the motor mounts?

95 Neon ECB, ECC, and 420 are the same.

96-99 are also the same. The difference between 95 and 96-99 is an extra fitting for a PVC system that doesn't work out of the valve covers. This can be blocked off, and only the valve cover system can be used. I preffer the 95 block, as they have different locating tangs for the main bearings. This allows us to install upper haves of the mains in both the top and bottom, thus creating full groove mains, which other wise are not availible for the blocks. It waste a second set of main bearings, but you gain oil to the rods, and the 2 and 3 rods are known to fail.



>
>Also, if you were to buy one of those short blocks for a
>rebuild (using your rebuild kit), besides the crankshaft, is
>there anything else you might need from the stock core?

Not really, any unique 420A parts you can take off your old engine.

Gary
>
>Thanks again!
>Jason

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

so is this ness. to do the .020 overbore. I haven't heard too many peeps talking about it before
TIA

2006 WW IX MR
2003 BBY EVO VIII (sold)
256.9WHP & 277.9torque
http://s90395832.onlinehome.us/forum//index.php?sid=a70942a7f65043e6c873e12dcd300692

1998 Eclipse RS --show car--

>so is this ness. to do the .020 overbore. I haven't heard
>too many peeps talking about it before
>TIA

If you want to make sure you true cylinders it is a good idea.

Gary

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

Unless you have low miles and can still see the original cross-hatching, I would bore it out. You could always have a shop mic it out for you. While the motor is out you could also have the block cleaned(acid dipped).

I would balance the motor on a rebuild. You already have it apart and have spent a lot of money on forged pistons and other parts why not do it right.

Aside for any machine work that needs to be done. The rebuilding process should be able to de done by the shade tree mechanic. With your own set of tools or renting whatever special toold you need. (I'm assuming you have a good selection of tools or wouldn't even be contemplating this)

"The fastest draw is when the sword never leaves the scabbard,
The strongest way to block, is never to provoke a blow,
And the cleanest cut is the one withheld."

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
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