I have a few unanswered questions about relocating the AIT. When i bought my mother a 95 eagle talon it was in need of some major help, i pulled the motor and tranny and through a 2 day-no sleep benge, built her a mild modded fresh motor. I noticed that the AIT was located on the backside of the intake and thought that is a stupid location due to it is used to measure the air temp comming into the motor, if the sensor is heated up the sensor is getting a false reading of actual air temp. I moved the sensor to half way between the air filter and the TB on the CAI, where it wouldnt be exposed to engine heat. Now i know, metering a cooler intake temp will yeald a timing advance and a increase in fuel, it DID help on the low to midrange pull. After that long explanation... sorry, my question if anyone can tell me, will moving it to rite behind the air filter on the CAI, will that give anymore advance in timing to the point that 93 octain WILL be needed? Also, will the ohm rating change the overall reading that the ECU sees if the AIT wires are lengthened... aka, trick the ecu into seeing a false (bad) reading causing the ECU to lean or richen TOO FAR to the point of detonation or fouling. Sorry for the long explanation, just want to get all info out to get a good usable responce

i wouldn't try it, but that's me. the engineers programmed/tuned the ecu a certain way through thousands of hours of engine operation. do as you will, post your results

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http://www.2gnt.com/quote_db.php?id=278

Outside of Corona: "That sucks, peace out..." (jamie walks away)... "Sweeet, what we doin?" -Zac
Tim's garage (prior to motor install): "Im gonna smoke real quick, that way if you fuck up I am already nicotined up" -Tim

I made the wires longer to reach mid way down the CAI by taking apart the wire loom to pull as much of the tucked wire out, so at this point i havent lengthened the wires, i made the mistake of changing the ohm reading by extending wires on a nissan sentra and it had some seriously ill effects and took 2 weeks to pinpoint the problem, but moving the AIT did improve performance so to that part i am convinced is a useable mod, havnt had moms on a dyno to log actual changes in AFR and Timing, but as soon as i do i will post a pic of dyno printout

this post is very interesting because my buddy at wyotech just sent me a resistor mod that you can do to the IAT. It increases power but decreases gas milage. I will try and post pics later after work

Be careful with the resistor mod, i bought my wife a 2000 grand prix GTP, at ZZP.com they sell many mods for grand prix's and one is a AIT resistor mod, its called the race pellet, but it jacks timing so far that you HAVE to run no less than 105 racegas, i bought it for playing at the track, but normal daily driving even on racegas, the laptop shows it to be way too much timing and the fuel curve is spikeing lean after about 14psi of boost, im sure it would be much worse on a NA car n cause a bad surge of power loss depending on your mods and tuning software

the next person that decides that the @!#% Resistor "Race Pellet" is a viable mod, I'm gonna come beat your and your ride with a 3" box wrench.

and you should beat your Wyotech buddy for suggesting that utter nonsense.


anyway

yes, even though the IAT is located in a metal housing in a metal manifold the resulting thermal influence on the airflow temp is negligible. Once you are at even half of WOT, the temp of that airflow is going to be fractions of a degree difference from the beginning of the intake and the spot in the manifold. add to this that even if you do trick the computer into thinking you are colder, the heat-soak of the plenum is gonna come into play and mess with your performance. this may not be a big deal when dealing with a NA powerplant, but the precision tuning required for Forced Induction can be effected by trying cheap tricks with the computer and usually results in bad performance if not damage.

to relocate the IAT you do have to watch your resistances over length and make sure they don't drop much at all or you defeat the purpose of moving it in the first place.

its better to keep the IAT there and use TRUE physical means of thermal control / reduction, because if you have to "trick" your computer then there is most likely something you can be doing to fix the problem
i.e. Functional hood vents that actually remove heat from the bay, oil coolers, Phenolic / Teflon spacers to reduce manifold and plenum heat soak, thermal wraps, ceramic coating, gold foil etc

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"Don't fear the weapon, fear the soul of the warrior using it."
"My CEL only goes off when i remove my battery."

Best sum up of working on a 2GNT
DR1665- "#5. Spike that motherfucker on the garage floor and grab a beer. You deserve it."


Ahhhh Priceless . . .
eclipse982nrRST "its actually lightish red"
RoninEclipse2G "yeah, they already have a color for that... it's called PINK"

I agree with you on about 95% of what you said. With the laptop hooked up to view realtime data in the GTP, the "race pellet" actually advances the timing to a point that thermal coatings of every flavor wont even come close to. I have the headers, cross over pipe and 2 feet of the down pipe wraped 2 times with DEI 2" header wrap, i have all the metal coolant lines wraped in DEI chrome reflective covering, it has a BeCool 4core aluminum rad, 1 1/2" liquid to air intercooler "postcooler", Snow performance meth injection, 1/4" PX3 compressed nylon throttle body spacer, fenderwell fed 3 1/2" CAI wraped in DEI intake sleave, all done one at a time, and every other time i did something it went to the dyno to see if it actually provided any power, and of course because it did, even if it were only 2-3whp we would have to retune it because it changed the AFR and timing.
Now i know we are dealing with a compleatly different animal, but even with all of that done, when i put the race pellet in, it gave it 13whp more than with every mod (which is alot) and running racegas.
I know your asking how is that relavent, the point im trying to make is that even though all of those things did contribute to a cooler intake charge, so yes you are 100% correct about the thermal coatings, but by "tricking" the ECU into thinking its actually getting alot cooler intake charge even on NA cars, the timing is advanced to a point that thermal coatings wont go, and with our stock system not allowing us to advance base timing, that is what we are left with unless you opt for a stand alone ECU that you can controle base timing, thats the only point i was trying to make, and that advancing timing too far can be dangerous because of the octain isnt there to accompany the added timing you will detonate and cause damage.

Now dont get me wrong im not trying to argue with you about the laws of thermal dynamics, i was meerly trying to state how it advances timeing but possibly to a not so desireable point. I do agree with you on how the sensor "should" respond at WOT, but that still does not explain the actual difference it made, i took my mother and told her to drive the car earlier tonight and to give it hell, she came back and said...ok? so i moved the IAT back to its stock location and had her drive it again, she came back saying that it didnt feel like it had alot of "grunt" when you first get on it and from accelerating in the next gear. Now keep in mind she had no idea that any changes were made. So that leads me to believe that the overall timing in the low RPM range was effected. Now yes i will believe it is not so noticeable in the upper RPM due to the fact that after the speed of the air increases it will cool the sensor off when mounted to the IM, but at a lower RPM even at WOT the sensor hasnt had the chance to cool enough, because of heat soak, to advance timing at the lower RPM. Either way, i am going to my buddy on thursday and we are going to put moms car on the dyno and see if it indeed has an overall effect on timing and power.

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Built. That's All...
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www.monkeybuttpirate.com
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2 Fingers of Scotch with a milk back... Stat!

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______________________________________
"Don't fear the weapon, fear the soul of the warrior using it."
"My CEL only goes off when i remove my battery."

Best sum up of working on a 2GNT
DR1665- "#5. Spike that motherfucker on the garage floor and grab a beer. You deserve it."


Ahhhh Priceless . . .
eclipse982nrRST "its actually lightish red"
RoninEclipse2G "yeah, they already have a color for that... it's called PINK"

OMG... thats too funny... dont ya think thats alil bigger than a 3" box wrench??? lol