Hello, I've been searching this site, since I got my GS about three months ago, and have yet to have a question that hasn't been answered already by searching so I guess that means you guys, and girls really know about all there is to know about these cars. Unfortunally I really don't have time to do a really detailed search on my problem, so I hope you guys can help. I bought the car three months ago like I said (this one makes 26 Cars since I was 16) and over the past couple of days I started replacing the sound system in it and decided to put these guages in it that I've had for a while, just never installed them in anything, so there brand new. The cars ran fine until today, actually, it started after I installed the guages, I haven't even finished installing them just put them in the pillar and hooked up power and ground and drilled the #4 header tube for the EGT guage, I started the car and imeditly it sounded like te intake was sucking through a straw, and the header almost started glowing red. and the metal tube that wraps around the right side of the engine that goes to the intake manifold also got really really hot, I talking about a matter of less than 30 seconds! i need to have this fixed by tomorrow, so please help. any thoughts, any at all..

Is this a turbo'ed car?

If so, did you remove the turbo when you drilled and tapped the mani?

If you didnt you could have ruined the turbo with metal shavings from drilling and tapping.

More info on the motor.

98 RS 5spd.

It sounds like you have a vacuum leak.

Joe
MFG Racing

95 GS
MSnS
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The car doesn't have a turbo, just a header. I can't find a leak anywhere. when I pulled the wires down from the a pillar it was a little tight but I don't think anything pulled loose. Is there anything under the dash that could cause it to run really rough and to heat up the header and that tube that goes to the intake manifold that fast. The motors still cold but the pipes almost glow after 20 seconds.

the tube is the EGR tube and i think something else might be fucked up more than a vacuum leak.

is the CEL on or anything?

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

yeah thats the tube I'm talking about, I've checked the vaccum lines and nothing seems to be wrong with them. I took the EGT probe out thinking it might some how be blocking the flow out of the head, but that didn't help. when I drilled the header for the probe I did it in stages first a small hole and let it cool alittle and so on till I got it to the right size, everytime I drilled I had the engine running so as to not let anything fall into the engine. Is there anything under the dash, under the a pillar that could have been pulled loose that would have caused this? The air sucking sound from the mouth of the intake/thtottle body, is very loud almost like the flap isn't opening. This could cause the car to run lean couldn't it? Theres no CEL on but I have Actron OBDII Auto Scanner Model#CP9175, that I think also runs a system check, as well as a check for touble codes. At least I think thats what it does. If its not a vaccum leak what else can it be? Before I drilled the hole in the header the car ran great, I drill the hole and install the guages and now this problem. I need the car fixed by monday morning so that I can get to work. Any ideas. Thanks for your help.

I had this same problem with my 95RS about a year ago. The issue i had was with the EGR valve getting stuck open dumping very hot air into the Intake. The increases hot air into the intake will cause the exhause gas to soar higher than normal. What i did was remove the EGR and sprayed it down with Carb Cleaner and gave it a good scrubing with various little brushs. I had a ton of carbon build up that caused the EGR to hang open. After i got it all cleaned, i checked to see if the diaphram would move smoothly. I think i just used my fingers to check to check for smoothness if i remember correctly. I put vacume on it and checked for movement and reinstalled. It worked like top until i removed it last week. Give this a shot and see what you get. Hope this helps you.

removed and cleaned the EGR valve didn't really help, could the metal shavings for the hole in the manifold be doing this? I mean unless thats it or when I pulled the wires down the side of the dash, the car should be fine. I just don't get it the car was fine until I pulled the wires, and drilled the header, are the factory wires in the a pillar important, I mean do they go to anything that would control the engine? thanks again for all your help guys, back to under the hood.

You said you drilled out the hole for the egt probe with the header on the car and the car running right? Maybe the shavings clogged up your cat or messed up your O2 sensor. IDK if either of those would cause your header to glow red hot though.

Project 2.4/Big ass turbo now underway....

Yeah on the car and it running, thats what alot of the threads here said to do, I searched alot first. I'm not sure if there would be enough shavings to clog the cat. but could the O2 sensor be screwed up and not throw a code for the CEL to come on? I scanned the comp. and no codes. when I bought the car the end of the O2 sensor was broken completely off and the CEL was on. I'm going to disconnect the exhaust from the header to check and see if its clogged. But would that cause the air intake sound like it was sucking the air through a straw?

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

I dont know why you guys are having this poor guy run all over the place. TPS, 02, MAP sensor, shoulda bought a turbo (lol) plugs, power steering? yadda yadda

anyway here, this may help

take off your EGR valve and clean it, the valve has a heavy restriction (ie METAL SHAVINGS). its stuck open, and your computer wins with the P code.

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Did you check to make sure the EGR was working? Not stuck in the open position?

The reason I did it with the motor running is most of the threads I found on here and a couple of others said that was the way to do it, and as much stuff other people get for asking the same questions I wasn't about to set myself up for that. Anyway the EGR appears to be working fine moves freely, and I got most of everything out. Its not the whole motor thats heating up, it doesn't even get warm. Its just the header, and EGR tube. I disconected the batt. to reset the computer, and cleaned the EGR, and disconected the down pipe off the header, removed the driver seat to allow me to get under the dash and checked everything I could get to and see, moved the fuse box to see behind it, everything looks ok, (not that I have a super idea as to what I was looking at), but no chaffed wires, all the harnesses connected. I got completely pissed and had to work on something else so I installed my Energy Suspension motor mount inserts(that I've had for about as long as I've own the car) since I had the car torn apart anyway. Put the batt. and everything back together, except the header, seat, dashthat kinda stuff and now the car wont start unless I push the gas pedal, and even then it just chugs and dies. Its kinda like its not getting enough gas, but I can't seem to find the fuse or relay for the fuel pump. Which would go with the guy at the parts store saying that it sounded like the car was running lean. I did the spraying the carb cleaner thing checking for vacuum leaks and didn't find any. I did a tune up about 2 months ago including a new fuel filter so I don't think thats clogged, I don't know anymore I'm just losing my mind. Thanks for any ideas you guys have, somethings got to work.

The fuel pump relay is on the driver side firewall.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Does it sound like it could a pump problem, wouldn't it just go out or would it cause thes problems?
Also wheres the Mas Air Flow sensor? I found the MAP?(what the haynes manual called it) sensor, on the top, right side of the intake, but the book didn't say anything about the Mas Air, and the car came with a short ram intake and theres no hole for anything but the breather hose. I know my truck runs like shit, or doesn't run with it loose or disonected, but I don't know where it is. Sorry to be a pain in the ass, its just really important that I get this thing running good soon, I have to drive up to Atlantic city next week, and I don't want to get stuck riding with my boss and his family again(god that sucked). Considering this is the best place on earth to get information on these cars, I know most of you guys could figure this out if it was in front of you, but I'm trying to explain things as best I can. Again thank you very much guys.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Its getting red because of the heat, which I was told that was because the car was running real lean. I forgot to say that when I tried to start it after I checked everything and got it chugging(running if thats what you want to call it) the "cruise" light came on and then went off, and did it again, not blinking but every couple of seconds and then the batt. light flashed with it.

Try running it without the header connected to the cat if you haven't already.

*Edit* As for the motor chugging, you might check the coolant temp sensor or the intake air temp sensor. When my coolant temp sensor went out the car wouldn't start unless i put the gas pedal to the floor, and then would run crappy and die. This would probably not cause your header to get red hot though.

Project 2.4/Big ass turbo now underway....

Which sensor is the mas air? in the morning I'm problably going to take the throttle body off and clean it and try to clean the intake out. I'd like to clean the mas air sensor. and will clean the IAC. hopefully this does it, or I'll be towing it to the garage. I just don't get how it runs fine turn it off mount some gauges not even wire them up and now the cars screwed. What about the cruise light, why would that come on? Could that mean that the cruise system is screwed up? Is there a vacuum diagram maybe I missed one, I can't see how I traced everything off of the intake. I'm probably going to take the intake off and clean it, can I use this rubber gasket making stuff I have for new gaskets or do I have to buy each gasket seperately?

Well I got it running, and the header and EGR tube still got real hot but not as hot as before. I took off the throttle body and cleaned it and man was is filty, there had to be 1/8" of carbon on the flap. the intake was about the same, I used a shop vac. to suck out the stuff as I used various brushes to clean it up, not prefect but alot better than it was, when money gets better I'm going to have it ported and polished anyway. When money gets better alot of stuff is going to change. But anyway back to the problem, I cleaned just about everything I could, reasonably anyway, and I hooked up the gauges and the A/F gauge says its running really rich, and when I took the plugs out that confirmed it they where pretty black, and not that old, I don't remember when I did them but its only been a few weeks. I notice the cruise light comes on but only flashes every once and awhile. tomorrow I'm going to pick up a new PVC valve and a section of hose from it to the valve cover, as it is rock hard a chipped at the end, and doesn't seem like it is on the nipple enough for me. So instead of running really lean like I and others I've talked to thought, its running really rich. It still has that sucking sound from the short ram and K&N filter. But atleast it ran long enough to take it to a buddys garage, (I was working on it at my jobs warehouse, his shop is about 200 yards away) hes going to look at it in the morning ( I hope, I havent talked to him yet) the problem didn't come up until friday night. The car still has a hard time idling, I'm not sure if its from the header to down pipe leak, I didn't see a gasket there when I took it apart but it seems there should be one shouldn't it? the header goes inside the down pipe about 3 to 4" and is beveled at the end, ( I don't know what brand it is, it came on the car when I got it) it has 4 pipes into one, and O2 sensor is on the left side angled towards the fans which when I got the car caused it to break off and I had to modify the metal on the fan to clear it so it wouldn't happen again, and it has this male threaded thing on the right side that has a cap on it, anyone know what thats for? When I first tried to start it after checking the coil, fuel pump relay, fuel pump, plugs(they where black and wet), plug wires, injectors, IAC, looked at the MAP sensor for junk,(I've heard bad things about people trying to clean these so I waited to clean it, probably tomorrow), whats the best way to do it? Checked all the wire harnesses for anything that didn't look normal, and good connections, didn't see anything out of the ordinary. It wouldn't start up and i had to give it alot of gas, pumping and continually turning the key, and eventually started and died, again and again, and a shit load of white smoke and black shit, and some kind of black fluid( don't think it was water, or gas,defenatlly wasn't oil so I don't know what it is) But when it did fianally start it rev'ed seemingly fine and wasn't chugging as much, not idiling smooth but running none the less. When I let off the gas it ran for like 10 seconds, just long enough for me to get over to the throttle body to give it more gas by hand so that I could try and shake some of the harnesses, and spray some more carb cleaner on the vac. hoses. Didn't get any type of response to thatbut it did idle, shit but idling then it died, started back up,ran and died.I backed out of the`warehouse and let off the gas and it died, started t and drove forward and it died at the stop sign, so everytime I pushed in the clutch and let off the gas to stop it died unless I gave it some gas. So what do you guys think I could be??? Sorry my post are so long but I want you guys to know everything I know so that I can get the best ideas out of you guys, and not like some things I've heard before like "Car won't start., reply: Did you check the tire preasure?". Thank you guys very much for all your help, I live in Reisterstown MD, and if you guys need any help with something let me know. I do window tint, and systems, and Tv's and some other car stuff like that, give me shout, I'm willing to help anyone here that I can. You guys a great, again thanks very much!!!

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yeah sorryabout that I just want to explain EVERYTHING so that you guys Know what I know about it. One more thing, when I let off the gas the car goes all the way lean, on the gauge and the car dies.

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I replaced the O2 sensor today, just because it was under warrarty, its 2 moths old and din't cost me anything. This is day 3 1/2 that the cars running like shit, its dumping to much gas in the motor. I have to search and find out what the regular fuel pressure is, so we can check that. When I disconected the O2 sensor the check engine light never came on, so I'm wondering if the ecu isn't screwed up. and the problem started before I wired up anything, I just mounted the gauges to the pillar, and call it a night, started the car and it ran fine until I went to back out of the warehouse and then it went crazy and its been this way since. As for the EGT's I don't know I haven't hooked that up yet, been busy trying to get it to run right.

its not your cat, drilling the header will not clog the cat, i mean come on, some of you guys claim to be a mechanic?

The EGR opens only during cruise situations. If you start the car and the EGR tube glows red, then it is safe to assume the EGR is WIDE open. During idle the EGR should not be open at all. The EGR open will cause you to run extremely lean, or will it? Try rich, it makes it run rich in many situations.

Since the EGR is completely open and exhaust is moving through the egr tube enough to make it glow then the EGR flow is throwing the Manifold pressure way off. The MAP value will be in the 10's range making the ECU think that the engine is under load. The ECU will add fuel, advance timing and in turn breath fire out of the head causing the unburnt fuel to continue to burn in the manifold. You get glowing manifold.

Block the EGR and try that.

Leakign exhaust has nothing to do with any of your problems. Actually might have something to do with your way of thinking.

Terry

The dealer told me that it was the bosch O2 sensor. sending 700millivolts and that the egt pro had a leak and that it was telling the comp tp dump fuel into the engine. Doe that sound right? It sounds like a bunch of shit to me, but what do I know. They also said that when they unplug it, the computer sets itself in a sfe mode at 500millivolts, and that it changed the idle but me and the mechanic tryied that about 4 times yesterday and that never happened I think there just feeding me a line of shit.

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well I took off the EGR and put a block off plate kit thing. I have and no luck. I blocked off the vac. tube to it, and the hole in the intake, but still runs like shit, anything else, I'm going to use this wrap stuff made for patching cracks in manifolds to patch the header, and a new set of NGK plugs, since they said something about the Bosh Platium plugs in there now. I have to figure out what to do about the O2 sensor, I'm not spending $200.00 for one. I just don't see how a brand new sensor is bad. Sure it happens but to be wrong and give the same problems as the old one..

The car sounds like its got a cam in it, and sometimes actually runs right at idle, for about 3 seconds. Changed plugs fixed PVC hose, fixed leak around the probe, could this be a dirty,faulty injector? wouldn't they be able to tell that on a diagnostic at the dealer? The only thing I can think of is maybe it jumped timing? The fuel pressure at the rail is 52 1/2 pounds thats with the motor running. does that sound right? The header still gets hot but not nearly as hot as before.

ok so you solved the red hot header but it still runs poorly. You can test for a leakign injector if you have the right tools. Pressure gauge is just one of them. the concept of the test is you pressurize the rail and clamp off the return line. Shut the pump off and watch the pressure in the rail. If it drops rapidly, the pump is allowing bleedback or an injector is stuck open.

What color do the plugs look like?

O2 sensor bad? sure its possible, unlikely yes. A new one is only 50.00 where are you spending 200.00. I have a used one if you want to try it. Its good, i replaced it on a periodic changeout.

Timing? okay thats a possability, check it.

Once the motor is warm, does the idle change at all?

What is the vacuum reading at idle?

Well its been a couple of weeks, and I've taken the car to a couple other mechanics and still no knows whats wrong with it. Everything seems ok and nothing seems to be out of place. I even drove up to Atlantic city and back and the car ran fine except at idle. The A/F gauge goes back and forth, and the car seems to run right when the gauge goes up to the middle of the rich side, and stays there for a second or 2 and then starts running like shit and wildly back and forth again. Staying more to the exteme lean side. The other day the CEL came on and it was a P0401 code, saying "EGR flow insufficient" after I got the code I cleared it to see if it came back but it still hasn't. My EGT's are between 1000 normally and 1200 max. it usually is around 1200 but doesn't go above that. Sorry to be a bother but this crap is really frustrating, I mean I actually got excited when the CEL came on thinking it would be the majical cure to the problem. Thanks for all your help.

Well when you are ready to answer questions posted above, we will be ready to help you.

Sorry about that, ok, the plugs looked fine, alittle black but not completely black and the white electrode was still noticabley white, and they where dry, not wet at all. the O2 sensor tested out fine, The idle doesn't change wheather its warm or cold, the sucking noise (from the short ram) does quiet down when its warm sometimes. The mechanic I took it to has this computer scanner thing that looks like my cars on life support, and he said idle vacuum was well within spec, as well as all the injectors, and the timming was dead on. I'm not real sure about the specific numbers though. I found a post about how to test for leaking injectors and fuel pump and FPR, by presurizing the system and using pliers to clamp off the lines under the back seat, and everything seemed fine. it held constant pressure. And the dealer wanted $200.00 for the O2 sensor. which is why I bought one from advance auto. I also replaced the ECT sensor just to check it. Does the metal thing sticking out of the IAC move by push it in and out? When I was cleaning it the sleeve moved freely but I didn't really try to push the metal piece because I didn't want to break it.

Ok the post your referring to about checking for a leaking injector is my post. If you followed that and all seems ok them great, injectors should be fine.

Black plugs? Should be brown or tan def not black. Your rich.

Runs great except at idle, thats leading us somewhere.

Vacuum is normal.....what was the exact reading. spec varies.

Your mechanic is a choad, dont go to him anymore. The scanner doesnt tell you what timing is within spec and trust me he doesnt know exact numbers for our motor. Same goes for much of the other data.

1. I want you to check the timing. The short ram's sucking sound i dont think thats normal. I have never seen one do that, granted i have not seen all of them.

2. Also check your throttleplates are completely closed at idle. To adjust the plate there are 2 bolts on top the manifold that hold the cable adjustment.

3. Have you tried a TPS sensor? With the scanner you can read the TPS sensor in step position (or % if you will). Some sensors, when they go bad will twitch. At idle with plates fully closed, the % is say 1%. But sporatically the % will jump to 12% causing the idle mixture to react.

4. Good job cleaning the IAC, very common issue. If you know someone with a spare, try it. If not, leave it till last.

5. Go over your vac lines again, especially the brake booster one. a leak that large will cause an Idle surge condition. Get a can of carb cleaner and spot spray the vac lines at idle. If you spray a spot in the line and the idle reacts more than it is right now, you have a bad line.

6. The EGR code will poss come back but i doubt its the true source of your issue. That particular code wont cause idle searching.

7. Unplug the sensor on the power steering pump. If this sensor is bad or shorting, the ecu might think you keep touching the steering wheel to turn.

Terry