Hi guys,

I finished after waiting more then 3 months I finished with overhaulin all the gaskets and changing piston rings. After that I took it to a guy to put the body kit (blitz ) on it and giv it a paint job..
Tomorrow im gonna post a few pictures of it..

But I'm having a problem with the engine at first when firing it up.. the engine sounded heavy kinda of a 6cyl motor. thought maybe the idle was at a higher rpm but wasn't the case..
Well I took it out for a drive to see if everything was ok and it happened.. I was approaching the end of the street so I pressed the clutch put the car in neutral and began braking to come to an stop and while doing that the car began to idle very bad it stuttered to 200rpm and almost died so i revved it up a bit and it felt like the car was drowning and had no power so it revved and revved and it stuttered a bit but came to it's normal idle again but after a while it did it again..
Till now.. and I got like 1 week riding with the problem and it's making me mad..
It uses up a lot of gasoline a LOTTT and I noticed that when I'm on a descending position it does it a bit more extreme
idle drops almost to 0rpm goes up a bit and drops again

So my question is has anyone of you an idea of what it could be and is there any way I could check where the problem is.??

Thx in advance

your CEL light come on?
if you can make it to an advanceed auto or autozone they can pull the codes for free and let ya know where to start.

could be an injector stuck open, vacuum leak, IAT sensor failure, or O2 sensor.
or could be as simple as needing new spark plugs or wires.

oh
i would double check your timing just to make sure it didnt shift

______________________________________
______________________________________
"Don't fear the weapon, fear the soul of the warrior using it."
"My CEL only goes off when i remove my battery."

Best sum up of working on a 2GNT
DR1665- "#5. Spike that motherfucker on the garage floor and grab a beer. You deserve it."


Ahhhh Priceless . . .
eclipse982nrRST "its actually lightish red"
RoninEclipse2G "yeah, they already have a color for that... it's called PINK"

engine was just put back together right? I'd def check what foggy mentioned, but check the coolant level and coolant temp sensor as well. air bubbles and bad sensors can cause some of the same systems.

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

agree with ronin
double check your sensor conections

______________________________________
______________________________________
"Don't fear the weapon, fear the soul of the warrior using it."
"My CEL only goes off when i remove my battery."

Best sum up of working on a 2GNT
DR1665- "#5. Spike that motherfucker on the garage floor and grab a beer. You deserve it."


Ahhhh Priceless . . .
eclipse982nrRST "its actually lightish red"
RoninEclipse2G "yeah, they already have a color for that... it's called PINK"

I'm getting very irritated with it.. working very bad and it's making me very poor...
I'm gonna let them clean the fuel injectors to see if that is the problem there is also a lot of black smoke coming out and it smells like gasoline so it's like the gasoline isn't being burned/ processed right
will let them clean it tomorrow I think and will post what happened

test your IAT sensor. once that goes bad it will idle like ass

______________________________________
______________________________________
"Don't fear the weapon, fear the soul of the warrior using it."
"My CEL only goes off when i remove my battery."

Best sum up of working on a 2GNT
DR1665- "#5. Spike that motherfucker on the garage floor and grab a beer. You deserve it."


Ahhhh Priceless . . .
eclipse982nrRST "its actually lightish red"
RoninEclipse2G "yeah, they already have a color for that... it's called PINK"

If it is the IAT sensor could it also be causing the rich fuel consumption? gonna let them clean my injectors tomorrow to see if that solves the problem..

Could it be the fuel rail that is passing on too much fuel? or something to do with it?
Cause a friend mine told me to check the fuel rail first because if I clean the injectors the fuel pressure is going to be stronger wich could affect the fuel rail then

NOOOOOOOOO, i had the same problem try changing your coil pack before you do anything else. if you can smell gas like its not burning but the car is at the right idle and the car feels like it bogs, try the ignition coil. i thought it was the o2 and bad fuel filter or cloged injecters.

Well I had a friend of mine cleaning my injectors but hey it didn't help so I heard a lot of strange propositions from friends and my dad who is a mechanic.. but he never has time to help me out always working on other things.. He told me my fuel pressure regulator isn't working well
and yesterday some guy told me that the car doesn't have a regulator because it's a 95.
Well when I was done overhauling changing gaskets and such I changed the coil with one my dad had which he wasn't using because it seemed newer well started the car but it was working the same so I changed it with the one I had already because before working on the car it was working fine but the problem still remained.

I did notice something yesterday a ticking sound near my fuel rail but don't know what it is or was. could it be something related with oil? because when the car is on a \ position facing down it does is a bit more noticeable.. and when in neutral and slowing down about 10 miles then it suddenly drops more

I'm gonna try to get another coil to test it with and if it where the coil that is giving me the trouble which one would be better to buy?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MSD-8239&N=700+4294839065+4294890813+115&autoview=sku
can be used on 420a engines and or srt-4 engines
or should I buy the stock coil pack the one that comes with the car??

well, i would go for the msd coil and if you have the cash get the whole set up. but if your on a budget go to auto zone and buy a new one. when this happen to me i just went to the junk yard and stole three of them to make sure one of them worked. theres a silet code that all people use when they go to the junk yard."if you can fit it in your pocket it should be free"

Well yesterday I noticed something very odd, still can't get my mind around it. when my fuel tank is almost empty the idling settles a bit it doesn't go down almost dying. I took a friend of mine home last night and the needle was on the empty line. Then I passed at a gas station and filled it to a quarter of the tank and immediately it started all over with the symptoms. Does this mean anything to you guys?
This morning I went to school to scan the car and it is giving me to strange errors torque converter and something about the transmission. But my car isn't automatic so I think my ECM is from a automatic car.
could this be the reason why it does what it does?

That could be part of your problem.

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

About 8 months ago my car was suffering from a bad idle. It would drive fine other than that...no hesitation at all. Abrupt stops would kill the car. I checked everything i could...absolutely everything checked out great. I finally got fed up with it running like shit so I was kinda driving her pretty rough. Well one day I pulled into a parking spot and absolutely just reamed on the breaks as hard as i could, really jarring the whole car. Apparently that was enough to dislodge a large airbubble I had in the coolant. I had burped the system about 3 weeks earlier after changing the thermostat thinking this could be the problem. This abrupt stop shook some trapped air out somehow. The car runs perfect now, havent had a problem since.

As far as using alot of fuel...do you smell any gas under the hood after its been running? I had a bad leaking injector too. It was brand new out of the box, and dripping gas right from the seam. (I had changed injectors to try and solve the idle problem too). Check for dampness around your fuel rail after you have driven a few mins. It evaporates quickly.

Sometimes I can smell gasoline under the hood but it doesn't do it all the time maybe 1 in 15 times i ride it and I send the injectors to clean so if they were faulty I would've known. Could this be for any chance the fuel rail or the fuel pump. When there is gasoline it sends it with high pressure and when there isn't much it sends it less leaving the car to idle better? I'm gonna try swapping the ecu with another one which is standard and see if it does something positive

I know it seems trivial, but I would burp your coolant system. An air bubble causes alot of problems for our cars. If you had the injectors checked I wouldn't worry about that part, as long as they had good seals on them.

Were you running that same ECU before you did the seal repairs? If you changed it that may be your fuel problem.

I had the same ECU from when I bought the car 3 years ago it came with it.. the previous owner must had bought it wrong.
So yes before I cleaned the injectors and did the overhaulin I had the same ECU. I tried the braking thing driving 100mph and hit the brakes hard but it didn't help. Gonna try taking all the radiator fluid out of the system and pouring it back see if it helps.. Or do I have to do it another way? to get the air bubble out?

You dont need to drain the whole thing. I did some searching for ya...

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=91581&mode=full

I dont know if it really makes a difference, but I have also heard you should raise the front of your car a bit. I think the main idea is you want your radiator cap to be the highest point...for obvious reasons.

O.o a newbie that has figured out the search?!?!?!?!


I'm officially shocked

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

Ya know what's funny about that....I have been using this forum for over 2 years, decided to sign up about a year ago...but because I only have 20 posts (mainly because I dont use my posts to tell "newbies" to use the search) i automatically dont know what im doing.

Does that make sense to anyone else?

Well i got home last night, but the car in the garage an hour later i went outside and saw that there was some radiator fluid leaking. Don't know from where it was leaking and I still don't recall seeing the temperature going up so tomorrow I will definitely try the radiator cap removal and trying to clear out all the bubbles. seeing if that's the problem and if it is I would have saved a lot of money.

not to be negative but can a bubble in the radiator cause my car to idle very badly and use excessive fuel?

!a very BANME! question! is there a page where i can see all the abbreviations? you guys use them alotz and I don't know them all so is there a page on the site where i can find out there meaning?

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

Its all good Ronin. I didnt mean anything personal to you. I just see alot of that on this site. But at the same time I do understand. There are LOTS of posts by new people that are what I call lazy. It doesn't take much effort to find info. Even with that said, you guys on this board are really helpful...hats off to ya all.

Pitt, I dont know about the fuel usage you are experiencing (are you sure the fuel system got buttoned up tight and your not leaking?)...but as far as your idle...air bubbles in the system make our cars run like total shit. Im not saying its for sure the answer, Im just saying it caused me alot of headache...and I have seen other guys on this board suffer the same fate. Its an easy thing to check...doesnt cost anything to fix, and its a known problem with our coolant system that can make your car behave like something way worse is wrong with it. Hope thats all it is for you too.

hahhahaha,

It worked but only for a bit.. It really worked the car's idle was working well and was stable.
What I did? Well I took the radiator cap off and filled it up first with 2 liters of water because I didn't have any coolant so it seems there was very little coolant in it. Filling it up the water was kind of brownish but I didn't mind because I pour last month a bottle of radiator leak stopper orso and the color of that was brownish too. So I started the car and let it work for a bit so the bubbles could get out and the water ran through the entire system. I noticed something very strange. while the car was working the water that bypassed the cap was brownish all the time so that means that all the contents of the radiator fluid has this color. Well after like 2 minutes of letting the car just work i noticed there was some coolant leaking from somewhere couldn't find out where thou but the color was greenish just like coolant and not brownish.. how can that be? Does this mean that maybe there is a big clogging in my system? After leving it without the cap for about 5 min I turned it off and put the cap back and and drove with it and yeahh it stopped but after like 30 min it began again. maybe because it was leaking and got below the level again or got air from where it is leaking. I am going to see if I can find where it is leaking from and fix it. and keep you posted about it.
And about the fuel that remained the same using still a lot

Fix your leak, that's the problem. it's leaking out the coolant and sucking air back in.

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

Nice, love it when a plan comes together. Brown eh? Like rust brown? Looks like you have some work ahead of ya.

yes think this weekend i'm gonna take it apart and try to find the leak..

serious guys manyy many many thanks you've freed me from an annoying problem.
do you guys have any idea about the fuel consumption?

Would buying a new fuel rail I saw an OBX fuel rail on ebay and thought of buying it. Do you think this could maybe the source of problem and if it isn't and bought it anyhow is it a positive upgrade?

The thing is that I don't live in the States and to order it it's going to cost me about 3 time the cost. So if I buy it I wanna be sure that it's the part that causing trouble and to give myself any relief I want to know if it is a upgrade worth changing or to just buy the stock fuel rail to see if it is the source??

thx again guys...

I highly doubt you have any need of a fuel rail, regulator, or anything fuel related at this point. Given you have known coolant issues, you need to do the following:

1. Replace the coolant temperature sensor. Located beneath the radiator cap, you will see (2) sensors. The one with the single pin/spade connector is for the gauge in the cluster. Doesn't do anything. The other, with the multi-pin connector, is used by the ECU to determine engine temperature and for adjustment of fuel trims. This sensor is a VERY COMMON culprit with these cars. When this sensor dies, it generally tells the ECU that the engine is well below freezing, thereby sending the ECU into a continuous enrichment mode. Car will run like crap once warmed up and a host of other mysterious problems. This sensor is less than US$30 over here. Probably the same unit in the Dodge Neon. Might be worth checking your local parts stores before placing an international order.

2. Replace the thermostat and radiator cap. These are inexpensive items as well. You want to be sure the system is functioning properly before you rule it out. Radiator caps have their seals dry out over time. When coolant at 100C* finds the smallest leak past that seal, the steam escapes. As the coolant returns to room temperature, the system pulls air back into the system, resulting in air bubbles in the system. This will only make a problem with the coolant temp sensor (CLT) listed above worse.

3. Find that leak. The easiest places to check are the (2) main hoses on the radiator. Follow them from the radiator back to the thermostat housing and engine block. Make sure they are dry and not bulging or cracked anywhere. Then you want to follow the pipes/hoses from the thermostat housing elsewhere in the engine bay. Below the thermostat housing, you will see a round protrusion on the engine block to the left of the exhaust header. It will have a larger pipe coming out of it. Follow that pipe and you will hit more coolant hoses. There is also a smaller coolant pipe across the front of the engine, just above the exhaust header. These lines run back to the firewall area. When they get to the back of the head, they connect to smaller diameter hoses which feed your heater inside the car. There are just (2) of these lines. (Coolant going in and coming out.) Remove your battery and shine a flashlight in there to get a better view.

The bad news is that things like the CLT, radiator cap, and thermostat might have to be ordered from the US. If you've got any Dodge/Chrysler dealerships near you, they might be able to get these parts, albeit at a higher cost, but if they have it in stock, you wouldn't have to ship it internationally. The good news is, any hose or clamp which might be culprit for your leak can be replaced by whatever you can find locally.

Track down the leak and see about that CLT sensor!

I think it's my water pump where the water is leaking from. I overhauled the car but didn't by a new water pump just changed the seal it had. And the thing about the sensor. i'm going to try see if I can find it locally or just order it.
If it can fix or can be the source of the problem then I'm going to try those first as they are relatively cheaper and smaller/easier to change

A million thanks.. I'm going to search online now for those sensors...

Well after a while I can post results because let a mechanic "fix" it and when I got the car back had to go on vacation the next day so I couldn't test if it was like it must've been.
I replaced the waterpump,coolant temp sensor, thermostat and bought a new battery as the one before was dying all the time. STill need to change the negative terminal wire..
Results: car still idles badly although fuel consumption got a bit better. The car still idles and almost dies like described above so the only thing that changing those part did was help a BITT with the fuel consumption. Well the guy changed all those things for me and the belt was squeeking a bit and he told me to drive it a bit and it will go away.. Well a few hours ago I went out with my girlfriend and while driving her to her home my powersteering belt was dislocated. it didn't come of completely but was half on the pulley and the other half was rubbing against the overflow bottle. I tried driving it like that so I could leave it at her home but it made a very strange banging sound and the belt snapped. Took it out and drove without it. Thought ahh it's only affecting the power steering so I dropped her home and continued driving till I hear a similar sound a stopped and yes the other belt the one connected on the alternator also snapped or so because I only saw a small thread didn't see the rest so I returned and left the car at her home. It's driving me crazy I think I'm gonna sell the car maintaining it is costing me too much money.
Is it safe to drive the car without any of these belts? What can it break or worsen??

you still have a bubble in the coolant. burp it again.

as for the belts you didn't get the crank pulley back on all the way and that's why it threw the belts. driving without the power steering/AC belt is annoying, possibly a safety concern since the car is harder to turn because you're fighting a non-functioning system.

running without the alternator belt is gonna kill your battery really quick and you won't get to far.

fix the crank pulley, burp your coolant and put some belts back on.
cost:
pulley puller/installer kit: free, rent for a deposit at vatozone, get your money back when you return it.
belts: $25-50 depending on quality of belts
Finally enjoying your car?: Priceless

Enjoy your car damnit!

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

Ohh crap theres alot of advice in there worth ignoring.

Lets be reasonable here: Your obviously having serious idle problems because of the fact that your car is running extremely rich and you can't adequately burn the fuel when slowing down. Therefore the car stumbles and starts to stall out.

Why is the car running so rich is the question we need to get at:

Open Loop = The ECU controls the A/F ration usually set at about 14.7:1, which is rich. This stops at 150 degrees it then goes into closed loop. You may be experiencing Open Loop from a couple of different things.

1. A faulty Coolant Temp sensor - This will trick the ECU into thinking the car has never warmed up, causing a very rich, Open Loop situation.

2. A faulty upstream o2 sensor - This will automatically cause the ECU to run in "safe mode" which is an open loop and also very rich.

3. A stuck open thermostat - This will cause the vehicle to actually never warm up and continue in Open Loop mode as well.

BTW: You do have an FPR on your car also, its located on the actual fuel rail and is held on by a snap ring.

There are many other factors as well that need to be looked into when deciding what the cause of running rich is. If you have a Vacuum leak pre-MAP it will cause a high idle, but it in your case a Post MAP vacuum leak might be a problem which would cause a choppy Idle. (i.e. stuck open EGR valve ect.)

Keep im mind an excessively rich mixture will foul your plugs relatively easy. While working on your issue you may need to clean the plugs frequently.

You need to check and test some sensors on the throttle body and intake manifold. They are very easy to test if you have a haynes manual.

1. IAC - Idle Air Control Valve
2. TPS - Throttle Position Sensor. - definately test this one because it also correlates with the ECU to determine injector pulses.
3. MAP - Manifold Absolute Pressure - it senses the manifold pressure and applies the right amount of gas with the right amount of air so the car runs and performs well if this does not work properly,it throws the car again in open loop cycle

Hope this helps.

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

I was kinda busy today so I couldn't buy the belt but will try to do it before the weekend.. I don't have the haynes repair manual but will try to see if an other member a friend of mine has it.. He has one but don't know if it's the haynes repair. And try to see if it is a fault sensor.. I changed the coolant temp sensor and thermostat the only one I didn't change is the o2 and maybe it's that so will test it.. thx for replying

No CEL?

No CEL?? hahaha
That is a strange one... I've never heard of a 2gnt without the cel being always on.

check engine light is on but gives me some stranger errors about torque converter and an other crazy thing.
I put both belts on and 3 days later the powersteering belt failed again seems like the tensioner is gone bad but saw a few post about completely bypassing it and don't have to use it so think i'm gonna do that. the altenator belt sounds funny don't know what it is because can't see it but now my car sounds like an electric car gonna try to get it on tape and post it... Sounds weird and annoying they see an eclipse but it sounds like a prius..

Well the bypassing worked used the 490k5 belt and working as a charm.
While replacing the belt I noticed that the sensor under the overflow bottle wasn't well connected so I put it in back (maybe just a coincidence but the car started running worse)
Well after a long talk with my dad "the main mechanic on my car"
he told me the oil pressure sensor isn't there that he forgot to tell me to buy a new one there is a stopper in it right now.
the ecu is not the original one but one of a automatic transmission but that I already knew. He doesn't remember ever changing the MAP sensor nor checking it.
Guys I could use your help.. please give me somethings to try out because burping the radiator isn't working and I still have a big fuel consumption problem is there any way I can test the sensors individually ? I want to check and test thing before start buying parts that maybe can't or won't solve my problem.
I tried the keydance to get ecu codes but don't know if not having an original ecu affects it?? If it doesn't I will try to post a video of the codes I tried but can't really understand it because there are different types of pauses and breaks between them I don't know if it belong to the a new set or the old one
But I think 34, 43, and 73 and another but couldn't cuite understand it

try checking your O2 sensor. I had a similar problem earlier my car was using a TON of fuel (like 40-50 mi to a third of a tank), and there was a lot of black soot above the exhaust pipe on my bumper. It turned out that my pre-cat O2 sensor was only backed out by half a turn. I tightened it up and all is fixed

Well guys at last got my new O2 sensor.. took the old one out which was pretty dirty. Put the new one in and started the car sprayed some carb cleaner to try to get out some of the dirt/oil that's in the intake manifold and after a minute or two...

The car started to idle better like it used to so took ik for a ride and problem is fixed!! the only thing is that now the idle goes up a bit but it's like "sensitive" if I press the gas pedal even a bit the rpm will rise higher then normally but I can live with that...

So this is another problem that was solved by changing the O2 sensor...

Thx for all the posts really appreciate it :

Appreciate you posting the end result for future searchers.

After all that, I would recommend changing the plugs, then assessing the situation.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Yea, thanks. You might want to run a can of Sea Foam through it B4 you change those plugs. Good luck.