To summarize.. with 1195 dollars worth of mods, 2NR got a whooping 4.2 horsepower from the engine! YEA!!! (they got 8.9 lb-ft of torque though)

here's the breakdown:

base hp and torque dino: 113.0 hp, 112.9 tq
AEM CAI increase to: 115.7 hp, 117.8 tq
APEXi WS World Sports Exhaust increase: 116.8 hp, 118.9 tq
Greddy Stainless Steel Header increase: 117.2 hp, 121.6 tq

holy crap... that's seriously the biggest waste of money ever.

What i'd like to see is the HP gains from an AF/X underdrive pulley vs an Unorthodox racing underdrive pulley.

And of course, the numbers from an HRC vs a star turbo kit.

importtuner@neodata.com

Let's all get together and email then and suggest these things to them. Cuz right now, that was a really horrible first impression of what the NT could do... let's email them so we can let the world really know how great it would be to have an NT.

(post here when you email them so we can tally how many emails they received from us)

16.1 @ 87.11
http://www.virtuallyinfamous.com

ARD 57mm tb and p&p manifold, Neuspeed STB, Pro-kits, Illuminas, Injen CAI with K&N, 2.5" pacesetter catback,
AF/X UDP, Rear STB, Powerslot rotors, RRE SS Brakelines.

u know what i say, F 2nr and their dyno runs.

u dont have to drop 1200 bux to get 5 hp out of a clipse.

was that a manual or stick eclipse?
were the headers 4-2-1 or 4-1


also, each engine has its minor power differences. the one tested cudda been built on a friday

03 srt-4 13.130@112.47mph (n2o, stock turbo, 10/2003)
now: 20g, portfueler, bpu+++ (track/dyno times tbd...)

i farted on your wiki

Here's what i wrote.. let's all take 5 min to flood their mailbox and force them to show some real horsepower numbers:

****************************

Dear 2NR,

First I like to say that I love your magazine and how you manage to find the best all around cars that can be found. As a person who lives on the east coast, i appreciate the way you do not discriminate between east coast and west coast cars (east vs west features).

I just picked up your february issue of 2NR and saw the power pages for the Eclipse RS. Since I drive a 1997 Eclipse GS, and it disappointed me greatly when I saw how little could be gained from the 420a engine. I frequent this web club www.2gnt.com, and they seem to be the best source of information for the 420a powered beauty.

From what i read on the forum, I'd like to suggest a few things for your next power pages for the Eclipse RS:

There are two turbo kits available. One by Hahn Racecraft (www.hahnracecraft.com) and one by Star Performance, which were both featured in Turbo Magazine when they were doing a feature on bolt on turbo kits. Each of these turbo kits have boasted that they have hit around 250 horsepower with their Stage 2 setups. It would be a great opportunity to show us the potential of these setups.

Also, from the forum, it seems like everyone is saying that getting an underdrive pulley for the car would vastly increase performance. Again, there are two that I know of, one from AF/X and one from Unorthodox Racing. The non-turbo eclipse world would love to see the numbers on how these two compare.

Thank you for your time and for listening to my suggestions.

Allen
Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey.

16.1 @ 87.11
http://www.virtuallyinfamous.com

ARD 57mm tb and p&p manifold, Neuspeed STB, Pro-kits, Illuminas, Injen CAI with K&N, 2.5" pacesetter catback,
AF/X UDP, Rear STB, Powerslot rotors, RRE SS Brakelines.

Keep in mind that dyno numbers reflect MAX horsepower. Those mods could have improved the overall curve, but MAX did not improve much. Another dyno of the Greddy headers also showed a 1 hp increase. I don't think headers are really worth it, especially for a automatic car. Also, exhausts don't help much except for the muffler, since we already have almost 2.25" piping that is the EXACT piping used on the gs-t for 210 hp. It seems that muffler shops are catching on, as more than one shop has told me that redoing the piping (press-bent) will probably only hurt the performance.

________________________________________

2004 WRX - WR Blue Pearl
1997 Eclipse GS - Royal Sapphire Pearl

Woah, that's kinda disheartening to know that I have less than 120 hp to the wheels. All I have is the AEM CAI and a Greddy Exhaust. No wonder. O well, u can't win em all. But I guess our car was really built more for looks. I still get head...turns I mean. Well, just have to wait for the tracks to open then and get to test out what this UDP is good for. Also wanna see how bad a 17 inch wheel would slow me down. Would also write IT and see what they'd do next. Hope they have a part two for the 420A, since this is what they did with the 4g63 that they featured. But at least we were featured already in the power pages. Not like Super Street which seems to be biased against DSM's and is chock full of ads...

SonicYan aka Mikey
1997 Eclipse RS
Pinoy Reppin' SoCal 2GNT
Best: 16.35 @ 83.05 MPH

something smells funny here: 113 base hp?? what did they use as a test model and in what condition?? correct me if im wrong, but isn't the base hp for our cars 140hp? I know the AT's may be a bit less, but come on, 27hp less...???? I dont think we need to mass e-mail them with respect, i think we need to mas e-mail them to get there heads out of there asses and use some #'s that are more accurate. I know the 2NR does all there test with top-o-the-line name brands, but come on $1200 for a muffler, CAI and header. Show car is one thing, but go car is another. If you spend that much for a name, than you deserve to get 4.2 hp from it!!!!!! (no offense to anyone if you have all that) just my irritated at 2NR $.02

USED TO HAVE...Everything you wish you had, and then some...

You are somebody special Tim, you matter! - from the admins (but nobody likes you, because your username is just like that other guy's, and you whine a lot)

140hp to the crank = 113ish HP to the wheels

They should have spent the $1000 on the howell rebuild kit for 12.5:1 compression, a little porting and have an additional 20 - 30 HP to the wheels.

current status unknown

http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/

Perf:
KYB AGX Struts
Neuspeed Sport Springs
5 Strut Bars (2 F/U, F/L, R/U, R/L)
Sprint Front Camber Kit
$15 Rear Camber Kit
Corbin's A/F Gauge
MSD DIS-2 Ignition System
Some Regrind Cams that need High Compression (which I don't have)
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Throttle Body
Drop in K&N Filter and open airbox
Custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Dual DTM Muffler
Empty Catalytic Convertor
Energy Suspension Motor Mount inserts
Hurricane_GS Short Shifter
Symborsky Shift Kit
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Modular
225/50/16inch Wheels and Tires


Audio:
Alpine CD Head Unit
Alpine Flex4 25W X 4 for Fronts and Rears
Alpine V-12 450W X 1 for Subs
Infinity Reference Series 5 1/4 and 1 inch tweeter component systems for fronts and rears
Blaupunkt 3 way 6x9's in the rears
3 MTX 5000 10" 12 ohm subs running 4 ohms mono

Flame Red SRT-4 GT40,8.5:1 Built Shortblock, Brian Crower Stage 2 Cams, etc etc etc...

The numbers for the cold air intake don't make any sense. We have dyno numbers on intakes on the main site, just click on the "mods" section on our main web page and you'll see a better gain from just the HKS intake versus the whole list of things import tuner has done.

Now I believe chassis dynos are only so accurate, but they can still give you a trend of what is going on. I doubt the accuracy of their dyno numbers.

Besides, I know I've seen about a quarter of a second improvement in my 1/4 mle times from just going from a stock intake to a cold air intake. So I certainly don't believe the intake only gained 2.7 HP.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

Yea, thats whack. They probably found a 95 with 150k miles and not properly taken care of, then did the mods. What are they, anti 2GNT? That report may make some people think that they are bad cars for upgrades, which is not true. I thought the CAI usually make at least 5hp, did they break it or what. they should be forced to redo it, in a proper way.

95 Eclipse gone, meet the Lude. Now driving 97 Honda Prelude. Fast, but a few mods wouldnt hurt. How about a Cold Air Intake for starters...

Welcome to reality, boys! Sometimes, the truth does hurt.

Eclipse-15.621 @ 89.5 mph
M3-13.192 @ 111 mph
Pick your poison!
http://www.onlineshowoff.com/index.asp?section=profile&username=endless73

That depends on what you define as reality. Do you mean that, in reality, with those mods, you would expect the car to only make 4 more HP?

How do you explain my 1/4 mile times? Or, the hell with my times, how do you explain YOUR 1/4 mile times??? I'm sure as you put one mod after another on your car, you saw improvements in your times.

Come on now Evan, you know better, it can't only be 4 hp. I would certainly believe (from experience) that the header is only making 1 more HP, but not the intake (again from experience). The exhaust, I can't be sure enough to wager a guess.

For our cars' weight, every tenth of a second is about 5 hp. I know I've seen at least 0.25 of a second improvement with just the cold air intake. I've got faster 1/4 mile times, and I've got faster MPH trap speeds from the intake. I'd say the cold air intake is worth probably 10 hp (I will not estimate more that that, just to be on the conservative side). Not about 2 HP as they have dynoed. No, I have not wasted my money and dynoed my car, but I have raced it a few times I'm sure that counts for something.

In my opinion, I wouldn't put much trust behind a magazine's numbers.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

Yeah, I guess that's reality. But I think Todd has a point. I mean, I think a stock 97 RS would be able to run at least low 17's. With what I had (AEM CAI, Greddy EVO and short shifter), I was at least able to bring my 1/4 to around 16.3. I don't think an increase in 5 hp to the wheels would do justice for the time that I got. But as they all said, the only way to get a dramatic (emphasis on dramatic) increase in hp would be to resort to FI. In the long run, this path would be cheaper. With the mods that they mentioned, the most that you could really get is at least around 7-15 hp at most. I'm just guessing...

SonicYan aka Mikey
1997 Eclipse RS
Pinoy Reppin' SoCal 2GNT
Best: 16.35 @ 83.05 MPH

Sometimes the truth is misread.

a)thats one car at one dyno session. Thats the 3rd 420A in import tuners dyno scetion testing the same sh*t: intake, exh and hdr(twice with the greddy header, once with a pacestter) since its been out. No results have been the same.

b)peaks numbers dont tell you anything. Cold air intakes OFTEN dont make much more top end power than any other intake. If it makes 0 hp peak and 8hp at 4000rpm it doesn't need to be so easily dismissed. 10hp at 6000rpm and up aint gonna make your car much faster if at all. 5hp from 2000-5000rpm and 0hp @ 6000rpm peak hp will do better.

c)what do you expect from a few simple bolt ons. Anybody who reads the repetive dyno section which test the same sh*t nearly every issue shouldn't have expected any different. exept a few cars they all gave small gains.

d)cold-air on dyno= extremely long regular intake. Fan blowing, hood open, stationary-get the idea.

e)they still make the engine and car look good. aint that worth something?

f)if its 1 or 50hp its still better than you had. To me if it makes ANY hp its worth it. its more than you had before you bought it. I'll take that extra 1hp thank you.

g)how many times have you heard the stock exhaust piping is good enough for NA. just change the damn muffler and save some $$

h)its not a waste of money if you plan on going further than just a few bolt ons such as headwork/cams ect(and if you werent, you didn't plan on going too fast anyway in which case it shouldn't matter. buy the bolt ons and pose!)

i)and finally just buy a VW bahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:farfrommugen:
Yes I still own a 2gnt.
Damn right I've been here longer than U
klassic_liven@yahoo.com

The reality is that if we are going to look at dyno numbers, horsepower figures will not look very impressive. With personal experience, adding all the bolt-on stuff didn't do much for me at the track. Basic bolt-ons will not make major differences. To run the 1320 with numbers like mine and Todd (even though they aren't blazing fast), you have to do more than just add basic bolt-ons. Driving skill, weight management, fuel management, air flow management, etc...other factors come into play. So the moral of the story is, don't get hung up over the horsepower numbers. Yes, our cars put out less than 115 hp at the wheels, but it don't mean we can't whoop some ass. Now go out there and whoop some ass. Go I say. Hahaha.

Eclipse-15.621 @ 89.5 mph
M3-13.192 @ 111 mph
Pick your poison!
http://www.onlineshowoff.com/index.asp?section=profile&username=endless73

>Sometimes the truth is misread.
>
>a)thats one car at one dyno session. Thats the 3rd 420A in
>import tuners dyno scetion testing the same sh*t: intake,
>exh and hdr(twice with the greddy header, once with a
>pacestter) since its been out. No results have been the
>same.

Yes, exactly. Which is why I believe chassis dynos aren't worth the effort. Maybe they are accurate to +/- 10 hp, but not +/- 1 hp and CERTAINLY NOT +/- 0.1 HP!

>b)peaks numbers dont tell you anything. Cold air intakes
>OFTEN dont make much more top end power than any other
>intake. If it makes 0 hp peak and 8hp at 4000rpm it doesn't
>need to be so easily dismissed. 10hp at 6000rpm and up aint
>gonna make your car much faster if at all. 5hp from
>2000-5000rpm and 0hp @ 6000rpm peak hp will do better.

Good point. Power over the curve is important, peak numbers are also important, you can't ignore either. But, generally, a mod doesn't add HP at very narrow RPM, it's usually spread over some range. And, extra HP below the rpms you run at the drag strip is always nice but doesn't help 1/4 mile times. I'll shift into 2nd or 3rd and the car will catch at about 4800 or 5000 rpms, so hp at 2-5K rpms doesn't help me much.

>c)what do you expect from a few simple bolt ons. Anybody who
>reads the repetive dyno section which test the same sh*t
>nearly every issue shouldn't have expected any different.
>exept a few cars they all gave small gains.

That depends on more factors that I care to list now, but to sum it up I'd say for a paticular car, some stuff is good, some stuff is not very useful. Using our cars, I'll give two examples. The headers I'd expect almost nothing. The cold air intake, I'd expect it to be enough to get a few tenths off your 1/4 mile

>d)cold-air on dyno= extremely long regular intake. Fan
>blowing, hood open, stationary-get the idea.

Again, that's why chassis dynos aren't too accurate.

>e)they still make the engine and car look good. aint that
>worth something?

Beauty and looks is always subjective. That entirely depends on the person. Hell, even I admire my intake manifold which has been polished on the outside to look all nice and shiny.

>f)if its 1 or 50hp its still better than you had. To me if
>it makes ANY hp its worth it. its more than you had before
>you bought it. I'll take that extra 1hp thank you.

Here's where it gets tricky. Yes, it's always better to have more HP than less But, I don't like paying over $400 for 1 hp. I think something can be said for getting the most HP for the dollar, even if it's just naturally aspirated bolt ons. But, in defence of headers, they might add more in the low end that we realize, where we wouldn't see it at the drag strip. That's entirely possible with mine.

>g)how many times have you heard the stock exhaust piping is
>good enough for NA. just change the damn muffler and save
>some $$

I agree 100%. I've been one of the guys who has been saying it! In fact, I doubt I'll ever change the cat back on my car, even if I get close to or hit 14's all motor. That doesn't mean a 2 1/4 inch won't give you a little more HP, but again I doubt it's cost effectiveness.

>h)its not a waste of money if you plan on going further than
>just a few bolt ons such as headwork/cams ect(and if you
>werent, you didn't plan on going too fast anyway in which
>case it shouldn't matter. buy the bolt ons and pose!)

heh heh, but who has put in the headwork/cams/ect.. AND dynoed (either engine or chassis dynoed) their car to see if a header (only using it as an example here) is even worth it at THOSE HP levels and with those more extensive mods?

>i)and finally just buy a VW
>bahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing wrong with the V dubs, good cars, if you don't mind driving a car tuned like a tractor engine! HA HA HA! LOOK ALL MY TORQUE IS AT 2000 RPMS! NEED A STUMP PULLED OUT OF THE GROUND??? heh heh just kidding around there. I know WV makes good cars. I don't typically like the looks of them, but they are well made and well engineered (that's how the germans do things)

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

I think a chassis dyno is still useful if you look at the dyno charts though. I've done over 30 dyno runs on my car, and probably tried every possible combination of cam gear settings. By looking at the charts superimposed on one another, you can easily see where the power increases are (low or high end). Peak numbers stay about the same, and power tends to drop off as you go above 6k rpm on my auto, but nevertheless, the dyno still shows where it improved. With these hp numbers (I think the CAI one is wrong), it makes cam gears look like a VERY good investment. In fact, I would get cam gears before headers, since I dynod the car before having headers. With just an AEM CAI and gs-t muffler, cam gears gave anywhere from 2.5 to 5 hp increase throughout most of the rpm range.

________________________________________

2004 WRX - WR Blue Pearl
1997 Eclipse GS - Royal Sapphire Pearl

How consistant were your dyno numbers?

What I mean is, if you did 5 dyno runs at the EXACT same cam gear settings, you you see a 1/2 hp difference between all the runs, or a 4 hp difference?

If your numbers aren't varying much, then you can consider the results accurate. If they did vary, well if you're getting a +/- 4 hp difference, you certainly can't say if something is giving you a 4 hp increase. You could calcualte a percent error of the runs, and you could go further, go crazy and do a statistical analysis of the runs and get a percent confidence in the final numbers. (I haven't done it in a while, but if I look it up again I could do it, at least to some basic level. I think it would be overkill, simpl getting a percent error would be enough. Don't laugh, you are essentially an automotive scientist now, and that's how scientists present their data numbers)

I'm certainly not knocking the tuning you've done to your car, please don't take it that way. I just want to make sure you are getting accurate results, for your sake and for mine, since if I get cam gears in the future, I know who I will be asking for help in setting them

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

there were alot of replies so i didn't read everyone of them but i think they seriously wasted money there. if they really were import tuners and knew what they were doing they would know that companies like greddy and apexi don't make a product much superioir to things that cost half as much s-afc being teh exception. swap out the header and add a bored tb take out the 600 dollar exhast and go with a custom 2.5 inch on an aerospeed muff and use the extra cash on a udp and bkr5e's that's about equal to what they spent and they would see double the power.

http://www.ocaddict.com

thanks beefgg for the sig

Arguments. Blah.

I made 125fwhp with a AEM CAI, AEM cam gears, and a Tanabe turbo exhaust which really did nothing for me.

Armond made 120 with intake and exhaust. The exhaust is again in my mind unecessary, especially since he had a Greddy turbo exhaust.

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

3 things:

- Import 2nr has to pay the bills, too. I doubt very seriously that they paid for those parts. I would even guess they were paid by the companies for their products to be featured in the magazine. After all greddy headers, AEM CAI, and apexi exhaust ARE representative of "high quality" products for the 2gnt.

- Import 2nr doesn't always put the "best" parts on a car. A good example is the 2001 Lexus IS 300 they did a month or 2 ago. They spent $900 and got 11 horses (and that Lexus has the non-turbo supra power plant in it - 2jz-ge engine). You'd think they'd have that one figured out!!!

- Go ahead and let the world think that our cars suck ass. It just makes it easier to take money from Hon-duh owners at the track!!!

Either way, they could have spent less money for more gains... all the more reason that there should be an eclipse magazine like the hon-duh owners have.

Tim
trwebb26@yahoo.com
White 1999 GS - Manual Tranny
Mods: B&M Shifter, Symbroski Shifter Kit, RRE SS Clutch Line, AEM Short Ram Intake, Clear Side Markers, GS

the car is actually a 99, so i'm guessing it's in good condition. And import tuner usually does a tuneup before they do the base dyno run.

The one guy was right though.. the stationary way of dynoing usually just turns the CAI into a really long intake.

But my whole point is we should email them and have them test out one of the aftermarket turbos!

They usually always do a part two and even a part three for their cars... part one's are usually just the basics.. but we have to give them enough feedback that they know their readers even car what goes into the RS.

I just want our NT's to get some public recognition as a powerplant that has high potential.. i think alot of the people who drive NT's don't realize that and just turn their cars into ultra-nice show cars when they could have the best of both worlds.

16.1 @ 87.11
http://www.virtuallyinfamous.com

ARD 57mm tb and p&p manifold, Neuspeed STB, Pro-kits, Illuminas, Injen CAI with K&N, 2.5" pacesetter catback,
AF/X UDP, Rear STB, Powerslot rotors, RRE SS Brakelines.

>How consistant were your dyno numbers?

I think the dyno numbers were relatively accurate. We did either two or three pulls at each cam gear setting. The only thing I noticed is that for each setting, we always did two consecutive pulls without turning off the engine. On the second pull, it always made 1-2 hp more than the initial pull. They said it was probably beacuse the engine oil and tranny was heated up more. Because after each setting, I would turn off the car for about 5 minutes to reset the cam gears. But at the end, we did more baseline runs, and came up with almost the exact same hp. Then when you superimpose the dyno's on each other, there is a definite improvement of intake adv 2, exhaust ret 2, versus the stock baseline 0-0 pulls. Sad thing is, after the ported and milled head, and AFX udp, my car made the EXACT same power to the wheels. That was with the cam gears set to 0-0 though since my intake cam gear is still stuck and needs to be fixed. I only milled the head 0.040" (10.6:1 compression) so I know I need to advance both gears typically to make up for it, so hopefully that will show some increases next time.

________________________________________

2004 WRX - WR Blue Pearl
1997 Eclipse GS - Royal Sapphire Pearl

>
>Nothing wrong with the V dubs, good cars, if you don't mind
>driving a car tuned like a tractor engine! HA HA HA! LOOK
>ALL MY TORQUE IS AT 2000 RPMS! NEED A STUMP PULLED OUT OF
>THE GROUND??? heh heh just kidding around there. I know WV
>makes good cars. I don't typically like the looks of them,
>but they are well made and well engineered (that's how the
>germans do things)

Hey 174hp out a 2valve per cylinder 2.8L is an accomplishment chevy and ford could only envy back when they made 2V engines....oh wait a minute they still do and for chevy a PUSHROD 4cyl to boot (well what did you expect I cant very well trash the very car that kicked so many honda and V8 asses over the yrs and will be turbo'd again by the time it gets hot outside provided I dont lose my job...knock on wood).

Tractor....haha so its a little flat up top but boy does it hall ass the first 3000rpms. If only there was a engine that had the tractor like pull of the VW and top end power of a modern 4valve per cyl head.....Oh wait that would be VR6 with intake, chip, exhaust and 256 cams. Or would that be a 420A with a T3. Guess somebody needs to find out.

:farfrommugen:
Yes I still own a 2gnt.
Damn right I've been here longer than U
klassic_liven@yahoo.com

those dyno figures sound VERY accurate. some of you guys just hav eto face the fact that the 2gnt in either stock, or what would be considered "bpu" form is still a VERY slow car. Import tuner and a few other magazines do articles like that to all cars (they do 3 or so basic mods that most everybody does) and they show what performance gain you get from them. it isn't an article about what "the 2gnt can do". unfortunately, our cars have small exhaust and intake ports on the head which cause a big restriction, and render most "normal" mods worthless. I wouldn't waste my time to write import tuner anyway. I just hope they didn't rip too hard on the car (hard figures are hard to argue against).

bring it on............

A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on...........

Heh heh, I guess we just have a difference of opinion on this one. I can believe, for some mods, that they only add a few HP and that's it. But for something like a cold air intake I think it should add more than 2 hp. Again, from experience, it made an improvement in my 1/4 mile times which would suggest it added more than 2 HP. Now, I'm not saying it was 20 hp here, don't get me wrong, but defenitely not 2HP.

And, as Evan pointed out, yes driving skill, launching, tuning, ect.. comes into play, but as it is pertains to the cold air intake I didn't really do anything different in terms of launching, ect... I don't see anything else to explain the gains.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

Todd, maybe the mods helped in most of the rpm range, but the peak power was still about the same? Like maybe from 3k to 6k rpm, you gained 10 hp, but at peak hp levels, it was still relatively the same? That's the only way I can seem to explain Import Tuner's dyno results without looking at the actual chart. Peak power can be hard to improve.

________________________________________

2004 WRX - WR Blue Pearl
1997 Eclipse GS - Royal Sapphire Pearl

It is possible. The whole power curve is important, not just the peak HP. It just seems to me that even at the peak HP, not just before and after the peak, that I'm getting a power gain.

Although, one possible explanation of why the HP numbers are ind of "low" might be they have shifted that power peak higher in the RPM range, gotten a very significant gain in HP very high in the RPM range, and not see a really huge gain in peak HP before vs. peak HP after.

For example, we make 140hp (that is 122.5 lbs*ft of torque) at 6000rpms. At 7000 rpms we are making less than this, let's say 130 hp just for the hell of it (that would be 97.5 lbs*ft of torque, our torque does drop off very quickly after 6000 rpms stock).

With mods, if you get the HP at 7000rpms up to 150, that's 112.5 lbs*ft of torque. You would "only" see a 10 hp gain, but the 15 lbs*ft of torque gain is huge and very noticeable. Not to mention you gained 20 hp at that rpm, which would help for a drag race.

But, the critical range is, of course, the range you run during a drag race (if you're using a drag race to determine if you're making more power). That range, for me, is about 5000-7000 rpms.

So, the gain might have been more from 6000-7000 rpms, which would explain why some of the peak vs. peak numbers are low, but I still think since you have to run through that whole 2000 rpm range, you'd still see a significant improvement around the stock 6000 rpm HP peak. Only getting a gain at that very high RPM would help, but you still run through 5-6K rpms as wel, and I know MY ccar felt stronger from 5K up.

What would really be nice is seeing the torque curves. That would help clarify alot of things. I'm still betting a cold air intake is more than what the magazine's numbers would suggest.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart