Ok. Lets make this a good discussion on how us AT guys can enjoy what performance we have and how to keep our tranny running good and strong for future mods.

My current tranny mods are this: B&M Tranny cooler and Final drive mod. Thanx to Summit racing I have put together a good project for this weekend. Here is what I have and am gonna do.

Tranny cooler.


Final drive gears.


B&M drain plug. For more frequent fluid changes if needed.


More magnets for the tranny pan to pick up more metal and shit in the fluid.


The almighty shift kit.


And a remote filter to get all the rest of the funk out of my fluid.


I also have the Autometer tranny temp. gauge. For those of you with this gauge, if you want the remote filter kit, I notived that the sender for the tranny temp gauge fits perfectly in the remote mount for the fiter. I think it is for a mechanical oil pressure gauge if you used this for you engine oil, but I think it's a great place for the temp sender. That way you don't have to drill another hole in the pan or waste $30 for the sender manifold. Here is a pic. It's the one in the center between the inlet and outlet.


I am also gonna replace the OE tranny filter, but might not ever again. Mopar ATF+3 will be added after I'm done.

I think this is about all you can do easily without rebuilding the tranny or adding a high stall torque converter.

Anyone with knowledge on high stall converters, rebuilds, LSD's, etc on the A604 please share with everyone here and lets make our tranny's worth talking about.

Also if you mods think the pics are taking up to much bandwidth please make them a link. I just wanted to show everyone what this stuff looks like.

"Natty Ride"


http://dirty.thisfreedumb.com/

I did the untimate A/T upgrade.

I got rid of it.

-=B-=

I knew that was coming. I just thought I'd work with what I've got. My swap will be a turbo where me header is.

"Natty Ride"


http://dirty.thisfreedumb.com/

YOU DA MAN!
unfortunately, I think that you covered all of the less expensive goodies in one post. get all of that stuff installed and take LOTS of pics. you may end up being one of the 2GNT AT gurus.

what I would like to know more about (mcgyvr) is the solenoid upgrade for the earlier models. why do we need this? what does it take to do this? I hear a little about this on ASOG, but everyone seems to already know everything about it. I don't even think that it has ever been brought up on this board.

peace
WIKKI


THAT is not f**king THAT!
THIS is f**king THIS!

I don't know to much about trannys. Thats why I started this post. Trannys seem to be where most people have questions and most of them seem to be about AT's. The ASOG guys have gotten alot futher then we have here (from what I've read) and most of these parts I have came form ideas from ASOG members.

We need to put alot of this info on this board as well, so people can find the info they want easier. Maybe this can go into the "things we've seen before" thread but we need alot more info first.

I will take pics and give whatever details I can,I'm just worried about getting the shift kit in. That doesn't look fun. I also work alone so I hope you guys will be on here this weekend.

"Natty Ride"


http://dirty.thisfreedumb.com/

o-k,
here's my tips for installing a TransGo shift kit.


there are a few tips that I have to maybe make the job easier.
1. read corbins writeup http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=32410&mesg_id=32410&listing_type=search
2. How big of a drip pan can you get? it's still not big enough! lol that shizmit gets everywhere. get as big as you can.
3. unplug your battery (if you do like I did and have it in low gear, you can't get your key out, and if you want to keep ypour door open, it will buzz at you)lol
4. have the car in 1 gear while doing this (keep the park brake on) this will allow you to remove the body WITHOUT removing the park actuating rod. (as far as I know, I'm the only one who has tried it this way. most unclip the rod completely)
5. be sure to unbolt the control rod from the trans (you can't drop the valve body without)
6. unplug the solenoid before hand (located on top of the trans)
7. when you first lower the valve body, take your time, there are some spring loaded
accumulators that are going to want to go flying (it has a photo of them in your instructions for the kit)
8. install the kit. lol
9. when replacing the valve body, take some wire and tie it to an installed pan bolt towards the rear of the trans. place your accumulators and springs into their sockets. run the wire underneath the accumulators and through the bottom of the springs, and tie the wire to a pan bolt installed towards the front of the trans. this will hold them in place while you get the valve body situated. once it is almost in place, pull the wire out and VOILA! everything stays in place (don't worry, you will understand when it comes time to put the valve body back in)
10. be sore to reattach your valve body kind of like torquing lug nuts. torque the bolts down in a star pattern to make sure that it is torqued evenly.
11. PUT A DRAIN PLUG IN! you don't want to go through that #$%$& ever again!
12. your trans MAY take a little more fluid than it did before to operate properly (I have read this several times on the dsm/at board) put the standard amount in initially, but if you find that it is making an odd sound. BUT! AND I CAN'T STRESS ENOUGH. BE CAUTIOUS! over filling can wreck a transmission fast.

13. most important. keep your arms and legs in, and have fun.

peace
WIKKI


THAT is not f**king THAT!
THIS is f**king THIS!

why dont we start another forum for ATs only. Like "Automatic Performance and Technical Issues" ?

They do it over at Talk but its all turbos mostly. Totally different trannys

Goog

Formerly Joe B Slow
Hi.
AIM: brohymn411
Email: brohymn411@hotmail.com

ph33r me im l33t: I'm like
ph33r me im l33t: petting the tranny cooler
ph33r me im l33t: it looks like a baby intercooler
ph33r me im l33t: it's so cute
ph33r me im l33t: seriously man
ph33r me im l33t: it's like
ph33r me im l33t: I flow shit
ph33r me im l33t: what now
ph33r me im l33t: I cool that bitch down

I learned a lot from dsm/at, but what no one mentioned while they were posting info, is that it was all for the turbo cars. they didn't seem to recognize that dsm's came in non turbo versions. (420A? what's that?)
so now I have a sh*tload of knowledge about turbo a/t transmissions that I will never get to use.

joe b.
did you find that leak?

peace
WIKKI


THAT is not f**king THAT!
THIS is f**king THIS!

Hey Wikki, no such luck. Checked the cooler fittings and there was fluid but no sign of the mass of fluid that came out. Taking it to a shop tommorow . Hopefully they'll be able to fix this crap so I can start adding on some goodies to the tranny. Kinda thinking the point of modding for the Eclipse/Talon N/A should be the tranny. Because no matter how much power we start making this tranny wont handle it! Its a PIECE OF CAH CAH.

If its not terribly expensive (the repair) im going to buy a new cooler for the transmission

How does a new forum for the ATs sound? Seems to be atleast a hand full of us with the AT with issues with it!

Goog

Formerly Joe B Slow
Hi.
AIM: brohymn411
Email: brohymn411@hotmail.com

ph33r me im l33t: I'm like
ph33r me im l33t: petting the tranny cooler
ph33r me im l33t: it looks like a baby intercooler
ph33r me im l33t: it's so cute
ph33r me im l33t: seriously man
ph33r me im l33t: it's like
ph33r me im l33t: I flow shit
ph33r me im l33t: what now
ph33r me im l33t: I cool that bitch down

i second the motion for a seperate A/T forum...someone please either post or link something to info on the shift kit, what it does, how it helps, pretty much any info would be preciated

Walker
95 Minden Silver Klipz GS A/T
One day my car will be in one piece
AEM CAI, Pacesetter Exhaust, Ported TB, Pro-Kit w/ Tociko Blues, 17" Excel TZ-7s(Gunmetal),SilverNT's rear carpet kit(lovin it), Interfire 1200w amp pushin 2 kicker comp 12's

You da man Dirty. Let us know how all the installs go

And yes an a/t forum would be awesome


Black 97 Eclipse RS a/t
Nakayama CAI
Custom Cat-Back Exhaust
Final Drive Gear Mod
AFX UDP

it would probably be a popular section. I imagine though, that they should consider simply a drivetrain section. there ARE only two transmission options on all of our cars after all. at least it would filter out all of our posts from the performance section (which IMO should be strictly for engine go-fast goodies)

I used to spend a little time on ASOGs A604 section. very informative. it was nice to be able to find things directly associated with the trans.

peace
WIKKI


THAT is not f**king THAT!
THIS is f**king THIS!

I'd like to add something.

There's a myth that our tranny can't operate with a stall-speed higher than 2800. This is incorrect. I'm having a lot of success with my 3500 stall-speed torque converter, with a race cooler ofcoarse. I did loose lockup function though... it's not very streetable. That and the TransGo shift kit make my launches fast and the shifts are great.

My turbo install is almost complete so I'll post the results of my tranny setup with 20+ psi of boost applied.

That's a good idea with the double magnets, where did you get them???

Kris
"Someday............I'll have traction problems!!!!"
Tampa, FL
Pinoy Turbo 2GNT

1999 HRC Turbo RS
Stage 2
Auto with BOOST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ill donate a little of what Ive got

here is the updated solenoid pack link
http://www.transmissionkits.com/chrya604.htm which was redesigned in mid 99, its supposedly better

and here is a list to build the best a604
get all these parts and your set

Transtar High Energy Rebuild Kit - K7200H $193.00 This kit uses the Raybestos High Energy clutches (kevlar)
Transtar Shift Kit - K72908J $26.00 www.naparts.com
Transtar Differential Pin Safety Clips - 72984 $5.00 each 2 needed and any trans shop (even the dealer) These are plates that sit on the outside of the diff and hold the pin in the assembly.
Transar Booster Valve Upgrade - 7208V $15.00 raises the line pressure for better shifts
Alumunim Accumulator pistons - part number unavailable (looking) $15
Phantom Grip LSD - 904 $271 www.phantomgrip.com
2600 Stall converter - $300 Hughes converters (core needed)
or 2800 Protorque High stall converter
updated solenoid pack Shifter Solenoid - dealer part (depends on year 98+ use different plugs I think) or Precision International Part Number K31900-6
B&M Trans cooler - $45
Raybestos inline microfilter - $30
Autometer Trans Temp Gauge - $45
Drain plug - $5.00
Mopar Anti-Foam Additive
Final Drive gear set Mopar part# 4773275

and Im still working on shifting the tranny with switches so I can manually control each shift point (F1 paddle style )

1998 dodge avenger 4 cyl AT
Mods are:
Not enough

>and Im still working on shifting the tranny with switches so I
>can manually control each shift point (F1 paddle style )

Let me know when you're done...

This is turning out to be a good thread. It will definitely end up in the "seen before" section (after it dies and I can archive it).

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Ive got a question for you all, Ive heard that the TCU is incorporated into the ECU, its this true, others Ive heard say that its a totally seperate unit located behind the radio.

I tried the autostick thing a while back but knew it wasnt going to work because the pins I was given for up and down shift were the grounds for the crank/cam shaft sensors and had nothing to do with the TCU

Ive got a 98 cause I think that matters.
But If I can get verification that the TCU is NOT part of the ECU by the batttery then the autostick is done. I know it will work if I can get the right pins on the correct computer.

1998 dodge avenger 4 cyl AT
Mods are:
Not enough

WOW mcgyvr, that's quite a comprehensive list you have there, SWEET!!!!

Kris
"Someday............I'll have traction problems!!!!"
Tampa, FL
Pinoy Turbo 2GNT

1999 HRC Turbo RS
Stage 2
Auto with BOOST!!!!!!!!!!!!

>But If I can get verification that the TCU is NOT part of the
>ECU by the batttery then the autostick is done.

im pretty sure it is completely seperate from the ECU, and it is behind the radio. That is what ive seen in pictures.

Goog

Formerly Joe B Slow
Hi.
AIM: brohymn411
Email: brohymn411@hotmail.com

ph33r me im l33t: I'm like
ph33r me im l33t: petting the tranny cooler
ph33r me im l33t: it looks like a baby intercooler
ph33r me im l33t: it's so cute
ph33r me im l33t: seriously man
ph33r me im l33t: it's like
ph33r me im l33t: I flow shit
ph33r me im l33t: what now
ph33r me im l33t: I cool that bitch down

I got most everything at Summit Racing. They are fast and get it right. Here are some links to some parts I have.


Magnets:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=27035

Drain Plug:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=13732

Tranny cooler:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=10154

Remote filter kit:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=4479

You can find the tranny temp gauge and chrome filter cover there too.
I got the shift kit from www.northernautoparts.com if you want to buy from them. They were also fast.
http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductModelDetail.cfm?ProductModelId=2489

I'm glad this turned out to be a good post but before it goes into the "...seen before" section we need some good discussion on rebuilds, TQ's and LSD's. If anyone has some good info and/or experience with these on our tranny, let us know all about it.

That list that Mcgyvr posted was the one that got me to do this stuff. It was posted on the ASOG board and hopefully I'll be able to do what that guy did someday. Thanx ASOG for all the help and info you guys gave us.

"Natty Ride"


http://dirty.thisfreedumb.com/

Mcgyrv- the TCU is completely separate from the ECU... it's behind the radio... that's a fact. You gotta let me in on some of your tricks dude!... PM me or something!

I've been searching for the ECU and TCU pin layout diagrams so I can zap our 6500 rev limiter. Anyone have them?

mcgyvr- Dont know if its what your looking for, but the 95's have the tcu in the engine bay, right behind the ecu: two sepearate units.


About building the atx to hold power...ive spent just shy of 3 grand on the atx during the last rebuild so it would hold power (only htin i wish i would have done was use a higher stall TC)...and yea, its done fine so far...but i miss shifting. So im w/ Bill: 5 spd swap coming this summer, look for a low mileage built atx in the for sale forum this summer. specs on what was done @ my site....maybe ill give the atx one more chance w/ a high stall tc, but i really dont wanna put any more money into it.


Dougie - the myth about the high stall convertors: the guy who did my rebuild told me to not use a high stall tc w/ the a604. He said too high of a stall will be seen as "slipping" by the tcu, and the tcu will try to compensate, and will eventually lead to burning out the clutch packs. One of the "benefits" of having a computer controlled tranny. I know a couple people have been running 2400 stall tc's for a while, but dont know anyone running 3500 or higher on the street, so good luck to you. hope it really is just a myth.

If anyone is serious about having an atx monster: use the 3spd from the neons. thing will hold GOBS of torque bone stock, and no stupid computer. Phatridez 9.0x second neon has that 3 speed w/ the same amount of money i have in mine...and well, yea, it goes 9's, lol.

95 Avenger
ATX->MTX Swap
Holset HX40 @ 26 psi

>mcgyvr- Dont know if its what your looking for, but the 95's
>have the tcu in the engine bay, right behind the ecu: two
>sepearate units.

Yep, that's right... I forgot about that!

>About building the atx to hold power...ive spent just shy of 3
>grand on the atx during the last rebuild so it would hold
>power (only htin i wish i would have done was use a higher
>stall TC)

You should've used a high stall TC!!! It REALLY wakes these cars up!

>Dougie - the myth about the high stall convertors: the guy who
>did my rebuild told me to not use a high stall tc w/ the a604.
>He said too high of a stall will be seen as "slipping" by the
>tcu

That's the myth. It WILL NOT lockup into limp mode, trust me!

>, and the tcu will try to compensate, and will eventually
>lead to burning out the clutch packs. One of the "benefits"
>of having a computer controlled tranny.

The clutch plates won't be ruined by the tranny "making adjustments"... they'll be ruined by the high stall TC, lots of TQ, and drag racing. Upgrading internals (including kevlar clutch packs) will eliminate this bottleneck.

>I know a couple people
>have been running 2400 stall tc's for a while, but dont know
>anyone running 3500 or higher on the street, so good luck to
>you. hope it really is just a myth.

Well, it's not a daily driver. But, I'll continue to post my results. 3500 stall is kick ass though... I just can't describe the feeling!

>If anyone is serious about having an atx monster: use the 3spd
>from the neons. thing will hold GOBS of torque bone stock, and
>no stupid computer. Phatridez 9.0x second neon has that 3
>speed w/ the same amount of money i have in mine...and well,
>yea, it goes 9's, lol.

That's my next project! JustOne may be doing it as well. It'll require some custom fabrication though.

Can someone explain high stall torque converters to me? Im a lil in the shade when it comes to those and how they work to help the tranny. thanks!

Goog

AOL - brohymn411 if you care to explain in real time!

Formerly Joe B Slow
Hi.
AIM: brohymn411
Email: brohymn411@hotmail.com

ph33r me im l33t: I'm like
ph33r me im l33t: petting the tranny cooler
ph33r me im l33t: it looks like a baby intercooler
ph33r me im l33t: it's so cute
ph33r me im l33t: seriously man
ph33r me im l33t: it's like
ph33r me im l33t: I flow shit
ph33r me im l33t: what now
ph33r me im l33t: I cool that bitch down

Not trying to take away from Joe B Slow's question but, does anyone use the studder box on their AT? How does it work with our tranny? Will it allow you to launch at a higher RPM than stock stall speed?

"Natty Ride"


http://dirty.thisfreedumb.com/

Joe B Slow- Check this out: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter.htm

Dirty- No, it'll be a LOWER rpm than the torque converter.

Thanks Doug for that link. But now can you find something that explains a "high stall converter"

Formerly Joe B Slow
Hi.
AIM: brohymn411
Email: brohymn411@hotmail.com

ph33r me im l33t: I'm like
ph33r me im l33t: petting the tranny cooler
ph33r me im l33t: it looks like a baby intercooler
ph33r me im l33t: it's so cute
ph33r me im l33t: seriously man
ph33r me im l33t: it's like
ph33r me im l33t: I flow shit
ph33r me im l33t: what now
ph33r me im l33t: I cool that bitch down

i believe the studder or stutter (spelling?) just enabled manny trannies to do what we can do, build boost off the line

turbo8u: "jiggle jiggle then vroom vroom pshhhh"
-Mike Pruett
2gnt member# 976
MOPAR Stage 2
SRTForums.com member #37 (Yeah, I signed up when it first came out, and ended up getting one, cool huh?)
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
- General George Patton (1885-1945)

I did upgrade the internals, including the kevlar clutch packs at the same time i did the rebuild. The guy who did the rebuild was the one who told me not to use a higher stall since the computer sees that as slipping

95 Avenger
ATX->MTX Swap
Holset HX40 @ 26 psi

Did you install the rebuild kit your self or have someone else do it? and if i were to have a tranny shop do it...how much should be expected to pay?

Walker
95 Minden Silver Klipz GS A/T
One day my car will be in one piece
AEM CAI, Pacesetter Exhaust, Ported TB, Pro-Kit w/ Tociko Blues, 17" Excel TZ-7s(Gunmetal),SilverNT's rear carpet kit(lovin it), Interfire 1200w amp pushin 2 kicker comp 12's

Joe B.
Stall speed on a converter in essence is the rpms that the engine can get while your foot is on the brake, before it will stall out the car. so for a high stall converter, your converter will not start to drive the car until a higher rpm is achieved. the benefit to the 3000 stall converter is that you are starting right in your power range, instead of like our stockers, where we start well before our power range.
the downside is.... Imagine driving your car, and never having your rpms lower than around (I imagine) 2500 rpms. lower gas mileage, and might get a little annoying (mayb ).

did I answer it?

peace
WIKKI


THAT is not f**king THAT!
THIS is f**king THIS!

lol that explains it for me. thanks man.

crossing my finger about this transmission now :/.

Ill try to send you a pic Wikki when i go see it again this week.

thanks again

Joseph

Formerly Joe B Slow
Hi.
AIM: brohymn411
Email: brohymn411@hotmail.com

ph33r me im l33t: I'm like
ph33r me im l33t: petting the tranny cooler
ph33r me im l33t: it looks like a baby intercooler
ph33r me im l33t: it's so cute
ph33r me im l33t: seriously man
ph33r me im l33t: it's like
ph33r me im l33t: I flow shit
ph33r me im l33t: what now
ph33r me im l33t: I cool that bitch down

>the downside is.... Imagine driving your car, and never having
>your rpms lower than around (I imagine) 2500 rpms. lower gas
>mileage, and might get a little annoying (mayb ).

My rpms hang out around 4000 w/o OD. A lockup converter wouldn't do this though. Most aftermarket torque converter for the A604 are lockup.

>My rpms hang out around 4000 w/o OD.


lol. I could stand that for about two minutes on the street.

peace
WIKKI


THAT is not f**king THAT!
THIS is f**king THIS!

i have no clue what the hell u r talking about. ok high stall i get but what does lock up do with anything. If it locks how does it unlock.

lockup, locks the torque converter so that it is spinning the same speed as your crank at a certain speed. you can feel and see/hear it happen with our trans. it is that annoying little wobble that happens to your rpms while at WOT jammin' down the freeway WTF

here is what I have heard and somewhat understand about lockup TQs.

they take away the edge of being auto with high hp engines and make things difficult once you get into the MAD power. apparently, you could actually have your tq turning faster than the crank, with a high enough hp engine and a non lockup converter.

lockups are mainly for highway driven cars, for comfort and efficiency while touring (little fluctuation in rpms while maintaining a relatively constant speed), so grandma gets the smooth even ride that she desires.

I haven't figured out which way is BETTER for the overall health of the trans though. I think that the act of locking up a tq puts more strain on the fluid flow (they are locked up by fluid pressure) and increase the temps of the trans. I imagine though that a non lockup tq puts a larger burden on the turbine fins even though the fluid flows pretty freely once the engine and trans start to match in speed.



Or maybe my posts are just WAY too long! I'm going to bed!

peace
WIKKI


THAT is not f**king THAT!
THIS is f**king THIS!

THANK YOU WIKKI! I have been trying to figure out what the hell that "wobble" was for the longest time. It doesnt sound very healthy but what the hey. Once you figure out which is best (lock up or no lock up) tell me!

thanks

Joseph

Formerly Joe B Slow
Hi.
AIM: brohymn411
Email: brohymn411@hotmail.com

ph33r me im l33t: I'm like
ph33r me im l33t: petting the tranny cooler
ph33r me im l33t: it looks like a baby intercooler
ph33r me im l33t: it's so cute
ph33r me im l33t: seriously man
ph33r me im l33t: it's like
ph33r me im l33t: I flow shit
ph33r me im l33t: what now
ph33r me im l33t: I cool that bitch down

ok so do I want a lock up or not? I want to accelerated at top hp. All the time not when the car feels like it. Without having to force the dang thing.

If you were going to make MAD HP you would want a non-locking converter. there is quite a range of stall speeds available. I beleive that all of them would be custom made for your car. the company that takes your order would take all of the info about your car and suggest the best option to get the best performance.

shybuck,
do you mean that you want it to SHIFT when you want it to? for the main part, we don't have that option with our cars (YET). most all of the time when you hit it though, the trans will shift down and throw you back. like I said earlier, it isn't easy to KEEP it from shifting down. it takes a very talented driver/dyno tech.

peace
WIKKI


THAT is not f**king THAT!
THIS is f**king THIS!

wikki. I mean is my car wont shift down or at all when I mash the gas. It just goes a little faster, very little. It wont throw u back. Unlease u mash it several times and hold it for about 3 seconds. Then it will fly, reach just OVER red line, chirp sec. and then jump about 20 mph in about a sec. However after the car hits about 5 k Speed stops going up even though rpm's do. That is why it jumps about 20 mph, I think. Also what is making it chirp. Just want to know how to keep so I down shifts each time and really flys. I dont know how else to explain it. It accelerates at different paces all the time, I just want it to go in a way that gradually accelerates so that you have reached max hp at full wot. Like say car has 100 hp. Well at 25% of wot the u have 25hp and at 75% wot u have 75 hp and of course at wot u have max hp. This example being 100hp.

just dont mistake that "chirp" for your belts slipping. but yea if you time it right you can get a good jump when passing someone. Just gotta trick the transmission a little bit. takes a little bit o practice.

Joseph

Formerly Joe B Slow
Hi.
AIM: brohymn411
Email: brohymn411@hotmail.com

ph33r me im l33t: I'm like
ph33r me im l33t: petting the tranny cooler
ph33r me im l33t: it looks like a baby intercooler
ph33r me im l33t: it's so cute
ph33r me im l33t: seriously man
ph33r me im l33t: it's like
ph33r me im l33t: I flow shit
ph33r me im l33t: what now
ph33r me im l33t: I cool that bitch down

In this case, the problem isn't the transmission... it's the engine. You need to do quite a bit of engine modding to get the stock AT setup to do anything at all.

Start with this list and it'll shift how you want and make power over 5000:

NGK BKR5E-11 plugs
8mm ignition wires
55mm throttle body
Cold air intake
30% underdrive pulley
startus final drive gears

That's only about $350. An exhaust would come next.

All street cars should have a lockup converter.
Only high power drag cars would benefit from non-lockup.