Okay, I have a set of slim fan I installed as pusher fans in front of my Fluidyne Radiator. Problem is, they dont TURN ON! lol.

I have wired the red positive 12v wire to every wire on the passenger side harness from the OE cooling fan, and the one ground wire is wired to the fans ground and they do not turn on from any of those wires...?

Does anyone have any idea why this could be?

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

You didn't remove the stock ECU or any stock sensors, did you?

Sorry to ask obvious questions... I just don't know the whole back-story.


-http://www.symtechlabs.com/-

No, the only thing that is removed, is the stock injector harness. Everything else is there and just corresponds with the MS. The MS has its own CTS sensor as well. The stocker CTS is still installed as well. Im stumped. I really am.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

And all the fan relays checked out okay?


-http://www.symtechlabs.com/-

Originally posted by VelocitaPaola
And all the fan relays checked out okay? -http://www.symtechlabs.com/-

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

I assume you did the same thing with any relevant fuses too...

I don't know the whole circuit by memory, so I'll take a look at the schematic again tomorrow morning and get back to you with other possible culprits.


-http://www.symtechlabs.com/-

Your comment about the passenger fan not turning on is a little confusing since that is not the main cooling fan. You realize that the passenger side fan is the AC condenser fan and unless the AC buttom is on it will not be the first fan to turn on when the ECU calls for cooling.

Anyway, here are some pics of how to bypass the relays and check if everything but the ECU signal is okay.

In this pic you'll see the three sockets circled where the relays were before I pulled them for the photo. The top relay controls the driver's side fan and that fan is single speed only. If you jumper across the two contacts as detailed in the second photo, the fan should turn on. You do NOT need the key in the ignition. It should have power as long as the big fusible link #7 is good. Note that the far right contact as you view the photo is the hot side if you want to verify with a meter or test light.

The second and third relay in that row are for the AC condenser fan hi-low speeds. Those relays get power from fuse #9. The AC fan will turn on low anytime the AC button is on OR if the ECU determines the other main fan is not keeping up with cooling.

Note that of the two AC condenser relays either one activated by itself will only give you low speed. Both relays must be on together to get high speed air from the stock condenser fan. With an aftermarket fan you won't get that two-speed function and you should wire the second pusher to the low speed relay (bottom) for staged fan function or to the top relay for twin fan function. In the latter case the other two relays would be dormant.

Originally posted by azdave
Your comment about the passenger fan not turning on is a little confusing since that is not the main cooling fan. You realize that the passenger side fan is the AC condenser fan and unless the AC buttom is on it will not be the first fan to turn on when the ECU calls for cooling. Anyway, here are some pics of how to bypass the relays and check if everything but the ECU signal is okay. In this pic you'll see the three sockets circled where the relays were before I pulled them for the photo. The top relay controls the driver's side fan and that fan is single speed only. If you jumper across the two contacts as detailed in the second photo, the fan should turn on. You do NOT need the key in the ignition. It should have power as long as the big fusible link #7 is good. Note that the far right contact as you view the photo is the hot side if you want to verify with a meter or test light. The second and third relay in that row are for the AC condenser fan hi-low speeds. Those relays get power from fuse #9. The AC fan will turn on low anytime the AC button is on OR if the ECU determines the other main fan is not keeping up with cooling. Note that of the two AC condenser relays either one activated by itself will only give you low speed. Both relays must be on together to get high speed air from the stock condenser fan. With an aftermarket fan you won't get that two-speed function and you should wire the second pusher to the low speed relay (bottom) for staged fan function or to the top relay for twin fan function. In the latter case the other two relays would be dormant.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

I contributed to the Wiki.

I think there must be a Chilton's manual error or something out there like that which started the mis-information about what fan is the main cooling fan. Are the fan positions reversed on the 4G63 motor? That could explain the confusion too.

If you plan to have both fans always turn on together you could have one other option available.

If you wired the outputs of the top relay to the bottom relay (connect the two wires at the fan) you would get both fans turning on instantly when you push the AC button. With the AC button off the fans would turn on only as the ECU reqests cooling.

You could also wire an indicator light to the middle relay output wire to simply light up a dash light to tell you when the ECU is attemting to turn the old AC condenser fan on high. Might be good to know when the temps are getting high (or might be more trouble than it is worth).

Here's a schematic from the FSM... look at the wire colors, and you'll be able to correctly identify which is which.






-http://www.symtechlabs.com/-

I think I am going to just end up wiring these up to a switch so I can flip it when ever the hell I want them to turn on or off.

But then again, maybe not, thats a pain in the ass.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

The wiring i used for the same setup was off the harness on the drivers side. The passenger wiring is for the A/C fan only.

Terry

At the plug where the harness plugs into the stock fan the positive wire is white with black stripe and the neg is all black. You can use either black wire or both of them as they both go to ground but technically the black wire next the the white/black is the ground connection on the OEM fan. The extra black wire was for a two-speed fan choice on the 4G63 version. The fourth wire (not shown) would be white with a blue stripe on a 4G63.

I was just thinking about doing a write up on this too Dave. I cut the wiring harness off of the stock fans and just used the blue wire to trip a relay that powers my fans. Since I just did this earlier this week.

I would say that you went a lot further than I would have explaining how everything works though.

My Blog

Thanks Dave. I may use some of your information. You just always have the perfect pictures to answer questions.

My Blog

Originally posted by azdave
At the plug where the harness plugs into the stock fan the positive wire is white with black stripe and the neg is all black. You can use either black wire or both of them as they both go to ground but technically the black wire next the the white/black is the ground connection on the OEM fan. The extra black wire was for a two-speed fan choice on the 4G63 version. The fourth wire (not shown) would be white with a blue stripe on a 4G63.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

thats one of the first things you should have done.

Test the fans, do they work?
Test the relays
Test the fuses
test the wires.

test the sensor, even though Mine checked out per the specs in the factory manual ( it was off by a degree) it still ended up being the culprit in my situation.

Member # 751


FOUNDER of the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I got kicked out after I refused to go Cow tiping) - Hehehe you know who this is for

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Well I jumped the fans to the battery and they deffinately work. I either have a bad circuit somewhere which I am pretty positive that I dont. Maybe my AutoZone CTS sensor is telling the ECU a different temp. I dont have a spare scanner to see what its reading, so since they are 8 bucks, I will give one a try and see what happens.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Okay since my last post, I have been doing some reading and found out that on another 2g, a guy tried wiring both fans together like I have done and it didnt work. So I came up with the idea of this. Do you guys think this should work out okay...

Wire Fan 1 into the stock harness. Power for fan 1 to white/blk wire on harness, ground to one of the grounds. For Fan 2, run it off of a relay. Power on Fan 2 to relay 86, ground from fan2 to other ground off of OE harness, relay 85 grounded to chassis, 30 to positive battery terminal and 87 to fan 1. This way, If I am thinking correctly, when fan 1 kicks on, it will trip the relay and turn on fan 2 correct?

***I cannot figure out how to make this picture bigger, if you know how to, please do it for me PLEASE, lol***
Here is my cheap dick schematic:

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Originally posted by azdave

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST Okay since my last post, I have been doing some reading and found out that on another 2g, a guy tried wiring both fans together like I have done and it didnt work. So I came up with the idea of this. Do you guys think this should work out okay... Wire Fan 1 into the stock harness. Power for fan 1 to white/blk wire on harness, ground to one of the grounds. For Fan 2, run it off of a relay. Power on Fan 2 to relay 86, ground from fan2 to other ground off of OE harness, relay 85 grounded to chassis, 30 to positive battery terminal and 87 to fan 1. This way, If I am thinking correctly, when fan 1 kicks on, it will trip the relay and turn on fan 2 correct? ***I cannot figure out how to make this picture bigger, if you know how to, please do it for me PLEASE, lol*** Here is my cheap dick schematic:

Mike, I can't see your drawing as the resolution is just too low. The factory relay should carry the amperage okay but adding an aftermarket relay will do no harm. Did you ever confirm that the OEM fan would turn on if you jumpered the two connectors as I asked in an earlier post with this photo? There is a very logical way to progress through this but it seems like we're jumping all over the place with suggestions and wiring ideas. To answer your question about the two black wires on the OEM main fan plug. Both wires should already be connected to ground at the other ends. Either wire should work but you can use them together if you want to have a good solid ground connection. That extra wire was for 4G63 setups.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Okay. So now you know that if the realy were triggering properly you would have +12 power to White/Black wire at the radiator fan plug. The other two wires at that same plug (both Black) should always be ground. Check them with a VOM.

Now, are you still not getting the OEM relay to trigger and turn on the fans? You mentioned trying different sensors. What is the status there?

I don't have my schematics here but in the photo below you confirmed you have power on the far right terminal and that power stays on even when the car is off.

If you now look at the two terminals on the left side one of them will have 12 volts only when the key is in the "RUN" position. I believe it is the bottom terminal. Check this with a VOM or small test probe. We are checking this because the relay is triggered by the ECU when it creates a ground and thus activates the relay coil. Check for power at one of these two terminals when the key is on and let me know what you find. Do NOT jumper across these two terminals for any test. It probably won't harm anything but also doen't prove anything at this point. Let me know what you find.







Once we have the OEM relay activating correctly then yes, you can use the White/Black wire as an auxiliary relay trigger and pull the power straight from the battery to your new fans using an extra relay, just like adding fog lights, etc.

I updated the photo of the main fan relay terminal in the fusebox under the hood.

Contact #1 is a Green/Black wire that goes to the ECU. When the relay is installed and the key in the run position it will have +12 volt and is looking for a ground to activate the coil on the relay. The ECU creates a ground once it sees a condition that requires cooling. When the relay is pulled out for testing you will not read any voltage on this terminal.

Contact #2 is not used.

Contact #3 is a Blue/Red wire that comes from the ignition switch. When the relay is out you should have +12V when the key is in the "Run" position.

Contact #4 is a White/Black wire that goes to the main fan. It will not read any voltage when the relay is out and will be +12 if the relay is activated.

Contact #5 is Red/Black wire straight from fusible link #7 and should have power at all times.

If the relay is out and you then touch terminals #4 and #5 with a jumper wire, the main radiator fan should turn on.

Note the schematic posted by Velocitapaola shows a possible two-speed main fan setup that I have never seen on a 420A.
It could be his schematic is copied from an early 2G service manual? My contact and wire color info comes from my 98 RS and a 98 factory manual.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

I think he has pretty much confirmed the ECU (or the wire to it) has an issue.

2-speed main fan??

Uhh.

I think we are confusing the fans like further up in this thread.

The main cooling fan is on the drivers side and only has one speed possible. It is the first fan to turn on when the motor needs cooling. There is no wiring or relay in place on an RS or GS to make it more than one speed.

The A/C condenser fan is on the passenger side and has two speeds.

I am going to try a another ECU I have laying around tonight.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

I thought I had another PCM laying around but I guess I dont.

Something odd though, when it was idling today, when temps were starting to get hott, I ran a jumper wire to the positive battery terminal and the fans turned on. I didnt ground them though to the battery. They are only grounded to the OE harness.

So problem seems to be I have no power source for the fans.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Try swapping out the hi/low fan relays. Maybe one or both of them are bad.

My Blog

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Beats me. I'm not good diagnosing stuff over the Internet. Especially not electrical stuff. That's the kind of thing that I have to play with in person.

My Blog

Okay, I came home from work this afternoon and took our scanner home for imports and hooked it up. Seems as though I CANNOT communicate with the ECU on the car!

I checked the engine fuse and it was okay.

I know the fuse is good though and the ECU should be okay because it still powers up everything thats running off of the stock ECU like the Fuel Pump, Ignition, windows, etc etc.

Question is, why do I not have communication with it with the scanner?

Could it be because I used the power wire to tap in to power up my Megasquirt, and because I used the one ground wire to also ground my Megasquirt unit and the Meagsquirt sensors?

input please?

EDIT: Found that problem. Had a spread terminal, fixed the terminal and have communication now but it seems as if our car, atleast with this scanner, will not let me command the fans on through the ECU.

I guess my only option now is to just wire the fans the condenser fan, and use that push button in the cab, to turn the fans on and off. I have nothing else to try.

All the terminals for the relay check out like they should, the relay is good and I can jump the fans so the fans are okay.

I am going to try the other ground wire tomorrow to see if that does anything which it should have no part in in the circuit, but if that doesnt work, im in the hole and I suppose I will just have to remember every time the temps get up there to turn the fans on!

Any other solutions!?

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Something I saw at O'Reilly's the other day....

It's an electronic box that you can set to kick your fans on whenever you radiator hits a certain temperature. I think it was about $20. You might want to check into it. I just remembered glancing at it though so I am prolly wrong about the price.

My Blog

Check out www.zirgo.com I got a fan from them a while back and I know they have a elec. temp switch for sale. Also have you thought about just having the MS run the fans? I think IIRC there are people on here runing them through MS...

I edited to the wiki!

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Well I wired the fans to a switch, and when ever I turn them on, they power the car off. Voltage drops to 10v when turned on.

I am starting to think that these fans are the culprit (sp?)

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

If the fans are killing the motor, I'd say you may have an internal short in the fan... Try a different set if you can.

I'd also try a known-good ECU asap to rule it out or confirm it.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Well here is the update as to whats what now.

Fans are still INOP.

I went to Summit Racing and got a electric thermostat probe that goes through the radiator. This is supposed to turn on both fans at 180*. I placed the probe near the lower radiator hose.

Started the car after I finished wiring this piece, and I let the temp get to 200* and still fans do NOT turn on.

I am really confused. I do not have another set of fans to try, and if I run the fans directly to the battery, they operate, so that clears out faulty fans.

Any new idea's from anyone, this is starting to piss me the fuck off.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

I wouldn't place the probe near the lower radiator hose. That is where the cooled water coming from the radiator enters the motor. It should be up near the radiator cap. That's why the stock temp gauge probes are located where they are.

My Blog

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

...back working on this again with Mike so here we go.

First, let me verify one thing. You told me your A/C system has been removed. I assume you removed the fan too. Did you remove the fan on the passenger side or the driver side? You should have pulled the passenger side fan and left the plug to the fan motor disconnected.


Let's try a basic check again to verify you have good power to the main fan relay.

The main fan relay is the top relay of the three fan relays you have in your fusebox under the hood. In the picture below you will see the first column of relays on the left. The top two spots are supposed to be empty but the next three down have relays inserted. The top one is for the main fan. The next two are for the A/C condenser fan (high and low speeds). We will ignore the bottom two relays for now since you have no A/C.

In the second photo the main fan relay has been removed and you are looking at the socket. Test two terminals for +12 volts either with a VOM or a test light per the photo. You should have power all the time on terminal #5. Terminal #3 should only have power when the ignition switch is in the "run" position.

What do you have so far?

Originally posted by azdave
...back working on this again with Mike so here we go. First, let me verify one thing. You told me your A/C system has been removed. I assume you removed the fan too. Did you remove the fan on the passenger side or the driver side? You should have pulled the passenger side fan and left the plug to the fan motor disconnected. Let's try a basic check again to verify you have good power to the main fan relay. The main fan relay is the top relay of the three fan relays you have in your fusebox under the hood. In the picture below you will see the first column of relays on the left. The top two spots are supposed to be empty but the next three down have relays inserted. The top one is for the main fan. The next two are for the A/C condenser fan (high and low speeds). We will ignore the bottom two relays for now since you have no A/C. In the second photo the main fan relay has been removed and you are looking at the socket. Test two terminals for +12 volts either with a VOM or a test light per the photo. You should have power all the time on terminal #5. Terminal #3 should only have power when the ignition switch is in the "run" position. What do you have so far?

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Mike,

I found a small error on the connector callout in the manual. As you view the relay socket the #3 terminal is on the BOTTOM not the top.

I just fixed the photo text so what you see now (after a refresh) is correct and will show terminal #3 swapped from what you originally checked. I confirmed this with a fusebox I have sitting here from a parted out 97 GS. Please re-check that you have power when the key is in the "run" position on terminal #3.

If this checks out then the next step is to find the old main fan harness and ID the wires so you know which two to use. The +wire at the main fan would have been a large white wire with a black stripe. There will be two ground wires and just go ahead and use them both together for the ground. Those two wires are both solid black.

If you have those old fan wires found and identified then you can also test them now. This test can be done with the car off and the relay still unplugged. Connect your test light to the white/black and black wires you just identified. Place a small jumper wire or paperclip across terminals #4 and #5 and when you do the test lamp should light up.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

No offense but, Why are you still messing with this?

Run a seperate circuit with a 180 degree temp sensor and you are done. It is better to have a thicker guage wire anyway.
They sell the kits at Jegs all day long.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

The coolant temp sensor is just under the upper radiator hose in the thermostat housing and has two wires going to it with a black plug connector.

NOTE:The sensor just below the one above has only one wire and is only used for the visual water temp gauge in the gauge cluster. The two sensors are not related electrically.

Unplug the top sensor and place the VOM leads across the terminals of the sensor. It should read about 9K -11K ohm at room temperature. At operating temperature it should read around .6K-.8K. If that seems okay then check the continuity of the two wires to that sensor.

The two wires loop out of the ECU and back. Connector A-106 position #26 is a small green/white stripe wire and that supplies 5 volts to the sensor. The other wire is black/green stripe and supplies the ground to the sensor. That wire is position #43 on the ECU. If the ECU connector is disconnected and you place the VOM leads on those two terminals you should read the same ohms as you read on the sensor test above (assuming you plugged it back in already). If that reading is unusual then unplug the sensor and check again. It should read open this time of course. You can check continuity on each wire separately if needed.

Results?

Dave, I will not be able to check this until Sunday.

I will report back then.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Bumping this back up, because I am trying to get this fucker on the roads by Friday and still after all of this, I have no fucking fans.

I ran the car to 190 degrees a few mins ago and no damn fans.

I put in a new ECU after our last diag and obviously that did not fix things.

Wondering if I have a faulty CTS.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Normaly when there is an electrical fault in the cooling system the "limp" mode is running the fans on high.

I am thinking that it has to be a cooling temp sensor.

I OHMd it last night, wasnt at room temp, it was still a little warm from running before, but not at operating temp, but it only OHMd out to 3k.

I am going to try it at room temp today and then unplug the ECU connector and OHM the pin outs there to see if they are they same as it was at the sensor. If its not, that points that I have a bad wire between the sensor and ecu. If it is okay, I am putting a sensor in.

If that doesnt work, there is nothing left to do, and it will just get wired to a relay and I will use an incab switch to control them, which I did not want to do, but at this point, I have no choice. I want to drive my car again!

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

You could always look into a seperate fanc control circuit. Have you researched Zirgo switches? We use one on the hot rod and it allows you to adjust the turn on and turn off point and contains its own seperate temp sensor.

http://www.thehoffmangroup.com/zirgo/product.lasso?prodinc=tempswitches

.........................................................................................................................

Built. That's All...
.........................................................................................................................
www.monkeybuttpirate.com
.........................................................................................................................
2 Fingers of Scotch with a milk back... Stat!

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Hope that works for you!

fuck it, new sensor didnt work.

wired the fans to a in cab switch/relay and i will just operate them by the switch.

fuck it.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Why not just have your MS control them? I've got mine wired up through it, can set the on/off temps also now... I know you've tried alternate setups, but I didn't notice if you've tried that or not yet. Also maybe their single-directional, and you need to reverse your polarity, as I think it gets a ground signal to turn 'em on...

/>

'95 GS w/ t3/t4b
FMIC, diy piping & RFL BOV
MS2-Extra Fuel&Spark
50 lb/hr Holley injectors w/ 1:1 RRFPR
JE 8.8:1 dish w/ Hastings Rings
Eagle Rods w/ ARP bolts
ARP Head studs
Mild port/polish head
3" custom DP/cat section, 3" PIT catback
dual MBC - 12 psi / 20psi

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

what version/board are you runnin? Mine came built in, just have a drop-down menu in MegaTune to turn it on. I do believe the mod involves a small amount of soldering if it didn't come with it.

/>

'95 GS w/ t3/t4b
FMIC, diy piping & RFL BOV
MS2-Extra Fuel&Spark
50 lb/hr Holley injectors w/ 1:1 RRFPR
JE 8.8:1 dish w/ Hastings Rings
Eagle Rods w/ ARP bolts
ARP Head studs
Mild port/polish head
3" custom DP/cat section, 3" PIT catback
dual MBC - 12 psi / 20psi