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Subject: "DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"

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CODE4	Sep-18-04 02:56 PM
Member since Nov 23rd 2003 2552 posts,

#80737, "DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"

Well, here are the two that I took today. He has more, and I am sure he will post them. Notice the wrist pin has worked its way out to one side. Run4cvr and DR1665 found parts of the retaining clip in the oil pan.

Not very easy to see, but there is a nice crack in the piston surrounding the area where the wrist pin has worked its way out.

My sympathies to you Brian.

---

2012 2500HD LML

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Moderator

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DR1665v2, Sep-18-04 03:00 PM, #1

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, grain, Sep-18-04 03:01 PM, #2

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, CrazyEclipse, Sep-18-04 03:35 PM, #3

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Moderator

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, CrazyEclipse, Sep-18-04 04:11 PM, #5

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Scandelous, Sep-18-04 08:01 PM, #6

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Global Ruler Of All Things

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, grain, Sep-18-04 09:08 PM, #8

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, thedawg, Sep-20-04 12:03 PM, #9

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Moderator

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, turbo8u, Sep-20-04 05:45 PM, #11

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Ark, Sep-20-04 05:52 PM, #12

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Ducking_Fumbass, Sep-20-04 06:25 PM, #13

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Moderator

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Global Ruler Of All Things

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, thedawg, Sep-21-04 06:08 AM, #16

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, WIDECLIPSE, Sep-21-04 09:13 AM, #17

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, turbo8u, Sep-22-04 06:21 AM, #18

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Global Ruler Of All Things

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, turbo8u, Sep-22-04 07:10 AM, #21

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Global Ruler Of All Things

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, turbo8u, Sep-22-04 10:31 AM, #24

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, HiOnPSI, Sep-22-04 06:58 AM, #19

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Collente, Sep-22-04 08:26 AM, #22

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Super20G, Sep-22-04 10:51 AM, #25

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, turbo8u, Sep-23-04 06:08 AM, #46

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, grain, Sep-22-04 11:08 PM, #44

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, turbo8u, Sep-22-04 03:03 PM, #33

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Ark, Sep-22-04 03:06 PM, #34

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, turbo8u, Sep-22-04 03:08 PM, #35

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Ark, Sep-22-04 03:26 PM, #36

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, CrazyEclipse, Sep-22-04 03:36 PM, #37

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, 97whitESi, Sep-22-04 03:59 PM, #38

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Ark, Sep-22-04 04:01 PM, #39

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Ducking_Fumbass, Sep-22-04 04:47 PM, #40

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, totaleklipse97, Sep-22-04 06:17 PM, #42

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, soulcontroller, Sep-23-04 04:02 AM, #45

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Moderator

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Ark, Sep-23-04 03:30 PM, #50

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, turbo8u, Sep-23-04 03:40 PM, #51

RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, Moderator

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RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures, silvreclipsers, Sep-24-04 04:36 AM, #55

DR1665v2	Sep-18-04 03:00 PM
Member since Sep 07th 2004 1223 posts,

#80738, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 0

Well, I would be posting pictures right now, but I seem to have left my camera at John's house. Meh. Along with my contact lens case and solution. Gotta love driving 30 miles across town in a dust storm only to find you can't pull your contacts to clean them. What a weekend.

I'm currently accepting donations of Chrysler 2.4L engine blocks. Prefer low mileage models if possible.

That is all.

"By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest." - Confucius

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grain	Sep-18-04 03:01 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2551 posts,

#80739, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 0

sucks.

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CrazyEclipse	Sep-18-04 03:35 PM
Member since Jul 30th 2002 2503 posts,

#80740, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 2

NOTE TO SELF: Don't drive car hearing odd bottom end noises. Park and try to fix until its broken even more then have someone else dooo eeet.

1998 GS-Turbo KANDY -- For Sale
1999 GS-Non Turbo 10th anniversary Edition

I have been in bed with Dino.....ask me for a picture!

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DR1665v2	Sep-18-04 03:50 PM
Member since Sep 07th 2004 1223 posts,

#80741, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 3
Sep-18-04 03:51 PM by DR1665v2

Originally posted by CrazyEclipse
Don't drive car hearing odd bottom end noises.

Sometimes you do what you have to do.

It was less than 100 miles from the time I first noticed it until she stopped at "run4cvr motorsports." Another 100 and I'm sure I would have windowed the block.

Originally posted by CrazyEclipse
Park and try to fix until its broken even more

We swapped out the initially suspect rod bearings in the driveway where you and I parked her when you came out to Phoenix. She hadn't even been started since then.

Originally posted by CrazyEclipse
then have someone else dooo eeet.

NEVAR. I have had my hand in close to a half a dozen of these rebuilds now. I might have had some part in this major fuck up, but I'm going to make it right. It doesn't matter why this happened. I'm going to fix it. I have all the help I need right here at 2GNT.

That said, mark my words:
Daisy will live again soon and there will be few cars on here able to match her. I don't give a flying fuck what other people say they will or will not have their cars capable of doing by the shootout next year. I am coming through on a promise I made long ago. Daisy will never die. Daisy will beat your car up and steal it's lunch money. If you think I'm talking out my ass in some fantasy land, I just dare you to show up in Norwalk next August and get in line.

EDIT:
Not directed at any one person in particular. Daisy will be taking on all comers next year. I'll be walking away from Friday night test and tune with some of Dino's hard-earned money.

"By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest." - Confucius

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CrazyEclipse	Sep-18-04 04:11 PM
Member since Jul 30th 2002 2503 posts,

#80742, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 4

Originally posted by DR1665v2

Originally posted by CrazyEclipse then have someone else dooo eeet.

NEVAR. I have had my hand in close to a half a dozen of these rebuilds now. I might have had some part in this major fuck up, but I'm going to make it right. It doesn't matter why this happened. I'm going to fix it. I have all the help I need right here at 2GNT.

I meant that I would break mine. Since half the time I dunno what I'm doing, its trial and mostly error on my part, I break shit periodiclly.

Originally posted by DR1665v2 Daisy will never die. Daisy will beat your car up and steal it's lunch money. If you think I'm talking out my ass in some fantasy land, I just dare you to show up in Norwalk next August and get in line. EDIT: Not directed at any one person in particular. Daisy will be taking on all comers next year. I'll be walking away from Friday night test and tune with some of Dino's hard-earned money.

NOW THATS the SPIRIT!
*bookmarked for next years referance that Driggs IS going no matter what* LOL
BTW Brian, I'll give you a run for that money in Kandy after I take all the 300 pounds n what not outta the trunk, and some minor engine adjustments over the winter.... watch out

1998 GS-Turbo KANDY -- For Sale
1999 GS-Non Turbo 10th anniversary Edition

I have been in bed with Dino.....ask me for a picture!

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Scandelous	Sep-18-04 08:01 PM
Member since Jul 19th 2004 445 posts,

#80746, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 5

That sucks!

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DarkOne	Sep-18-04 08:40 PM
Donating 2GNT member 14938 posts,

#80750, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 6

Moral of the story: DON'T BUY WEISCO PISTONS.

Ebay for a block dude. I've seen 'em as low as $50.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

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grain	Sep-18-04 09:08 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2551 posts,

#80751, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 7

i dunno . my cars name is beth. and daisy is a girly girls name. and my car has a bigger club. your cars lunch money is mine. muhhhaha

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thedawg	Sep-20-04 12:03 PM
Donating 2GNT member 6287 posts,

#80790, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 8

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DR1665v2	Sep-20-04 02:25 PM
Member since Sep 07th 2004 1223 posts,

#80801, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 9

LOL! Funny shit Dan.

I haven't forgotten your offer in the PM. I need to figure out what I'm going to do here. Will get back to you soon.

"By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest." - Confucius

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turbo8u	Sep-20-04 05:45 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80818, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 7

Originally posted by DarkOne
Moral of the story: DON'T BUY WEISCO PISTONS. Ebay for a block dude. I've seen 'em as low as $50.

no, moral of the story is get your block assmelbed, dont do it yourself

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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Ark	Sep-20-04 05:52 PM
Member since Aug 31st 2004 1570 posts,

#80819, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 11

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne Moral of the story: DON'T BUY WEISCO PISTONS. Ebay for a block dude. I've seen 'em as low as $50.

no, moral of the story is get your block assmelbed, dont do it yourself

Ouch.

__________________________________________
~Chris

forums.kaptainmyke.com/index.php?&act=garage&CODE=12&CID=8
- AGP CAI
- AGP EVM
- MOPAR Stage 1 ECU
- 500cc Injectors

And he wonders why he couldn't make her happy...and someone obviously hasnt moved on. lol

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Ducking_Fumbass	Sep-20-04 06:25 PM
Member since Aug 30th 2004 1147 posts,

#80822, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 12

"Asmelbed"? What's that? You saying you smell bad?

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DR1665v2	Sep-20-04 06:46 PM
Member since Sep 07th 2004 1223 posts,

#80824, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 13

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
"Asmelbed"? What's that? You saying you smell bad?

OMFG! ROFL ETC!

Next block is getting built for me. Rest assured that, if it's within my power to do so, I will be having it built by ERT. If this is the case, there are going to be some local 4g63 people getting a very rude awakening shortly.

Oh yeah, and watch out Josh. You and I will have to hit a track next time I come out to let the girls play. MUHAHAHAHAHA! And wash your ass bro.

"By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest." - Confucius

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DarkOne	Sep-20-04 09:15 PM
Donating 2GNT member 14938 posts,

#80826, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 11
Sep-20-04 09:16 PM by DarkOne

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne Moral of the story: DON'T BUY WEISCO PISTONS. Ebay for a block dude. I've seen 'em as low as $50.

no, moral of the story is get your block assmelbed, dont do it yourself

The moral of the story is to know that you're talking about before you open your mouth. He didn't assemble the piston/rod sets.

you're the one that ground down incorrectly sized wristpins to make them fit your pistons, don't make swipes at ANYONE for halfassing anything here, you lazy shit, much less at me for pointing out crap engineering when I see it.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

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thedawg	Sep-21-04 06:08 AM
Donating 2GNT member 6287 posts,

#80845, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 15

Originally posted by DarkOne
you're the one that ground down incorrectly sized wristpins to make them fit your pistons, don't make swipes at ANYONE for halfassing anything here, you lazy shit

LOL!

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WIDECLIPSE	Sep-21-04 09:13 AM
Member since Apr 14th 2004 1528 posts,

#80854, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 15

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne Moral of the story: DON'T BUY WEISCO PISTONS. Ebay for a block dude. I've seen 'em as low as $50.

no, moral of the story is get your block assmelbed, dont do it yourself

The moral of the story is to know that you're talking about before you open your mouth. He didn't assemble the piston/rod sets. you're the one that ground down incorrectly sized wristpins to make them fit your pistons, don't make swipes at ANYONE for halfassing anything here, you lazy shit, much less at me for pointing out crap engineering when I see it.

-Roman

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turbo8u	Sep-22-04 06:21 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80877, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 15
Sep-22-04 06:33 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne Moral of the story: DON'T BUY WEISCO PISTONS. Ebay for a block dude. I've seen 'em as low as $50.

no, moral of the story is get your block assmelbed, dont do it yourself

The moral of the story is to know that you're talking about before you open your mouth. He didn't assemble the piston/rod sets. you're the one that ground down incorrectly sized wristpins to make them fit your pistons, don't make swipes at ANYONE for halfassing anything here, you lazy shit, much less at me for pointing out crap engineering when I see it.

shut the fuck up dino.

edit: i didnt "swipe" brian at all, but if he got it built he wouldnt have had these problems with blow by, etc.

lazy ass for shaving wrist pins? RRRRRIIIIGHT dino! you should be talking with your lazy ass wiring that ended up being the factor in blowing your motor. the fact is my pins dont move, so shaved or not they work just fine.

crap engineering? you know from experience? NO!

the moral of the story is dino is an asshole who likes to degrade people he "thinks" dont know what theyre talking about, but in reality...he's never even HAD first hand knowledge with wisecos pistons so he really doesnt know what the FUCK HE'S TALKING ABOUT...maybe you should take your own advice

edit 2: i can see why you made this asshole reply, it was 12am and you were probably drunk like usual.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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DarkOne	Sep-22-04 07:05 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14938 posts,

#80879, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 18

Originally posted by turbo8u
you should be talking with your lazy ass wiring that ended up being the factor in blowing your motor. the fact is my pins dont move, so shaved or not they work just fine.

The wiring was sound. Taking it through a car wash was probably not the brightest idea, however. Taking it on the rollers after having to hotwire it to start it was certainly not.

Dude, sticking a wristpin on a grinder to make it fit is a horribly bad idea. I don't care how well you say it works, if its not the right part, it's not the right fucking part. I don't care how well it you think it works.

My knowledge of Weisco pistons is accumulated from several years indirect observation and discussion. First hand experience, no, but you can only watch them break, melt, and crack so many times before you say, "Ya know, maybe it's just not a good product."

Refrain from telling anyone that they should have their motor "professionally" assembled to avoid problems like this, when the failed part was indeed "professionally" assembled by his local engine builder, and you half-assed your own build.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

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turbo8u	Sep-22-04 07:10 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80880, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 20
Sep-22-04 07:11 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne
Refrain from telling anyone that they should have their motor "professionally" assembled to avoid problems like this, when the failed part was indeed "professionally" assembled by his local engine builder, and you half-assed your own build.

no i didnt, my block was built by a local machinist. he also agreed the job on my wrist pins came out better than he could have imagined. a valve face grinder and a micrometer can do wonders.

stop talking out of your ass

im willing to bet that crack is because of oil starvation...am i right brian? how low on oil was she when you came down here for example.

edit: there was nothing 'half assed' about my build. it runs PERFECTLY, so whats the problem again? exactly, stfu.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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DarkOne	Sep-22-04 10:24 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14938 posts,

#80882, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 21

Originally posted by turbo8u
there was nothing 'half assed' about my build. it runs PERFECTLY, so whats the problem again? exactly, stfu.

So did Driggs', until this. Wonder how long its going to take the ground down end of those wristpins to eat through the retainer?

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

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turbo8u	Sep-22-04 10:31 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80884, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 23
Sep-22-04 10:33 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by turbo8u there was nothing 'half assed' about my build. it runs PERFECTLY, so whats the problem again? exactly, stfu.

So did Driggs', until this. Wonder how long its going to take the ground down end of those wristpins to eat through the retainer?

why the fuck would the ground down pin 'eat the retainer? LMFAO

edit: like i said, his pistons probly got fucked because of oil starvation, not because how they were "engineered"

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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HiOnPSI	Sep-22-04 06:58 AM
Member since Mar 28th 2002 2745 posts,

#80878, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 4

Originally posted by DR1665v2
That said, mark my words: Daisy will live again soon and there will be few cars on here able to match her. I don't give a flying fuck what other people say they will or will not have their cars capable of doing by the shootout next year. I am coming through on a promise I made long ago. Daisy will never die. Daisy will beat your car up and steal it's lunch money. If you think I'm talking out my ass in some fantasy land, I just dare you to show up in Norwalk next August and get in line. EDIT: Not directed at any one person in particular. Daisy will be taking on all comers next year. I'll be walking away from Friday night test and tune with some of Dino's hard-earned money.

You're going to have to get through me first, sucka!
bwah-hahaha

btw, if i go and take home the dino's hard earned money, everyone gets a round on me. Of course, as long as it doesn't exceed whatever I get paid for being the fastest

Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

12.671 @ 111.660 1.586 60' 5/28/04

www.haiokuracing.com

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Collente	Sep-22-04 08:26 AM
Member since Sep 20th 2002 2447 posts,

#80881, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 19

wiseco pistons suck ass... end of story
Nick
97RS

turbo8u> shut your SUCK
ZAO684: NIPPLE warning...maybe>?
turbo8u> yea i was a window licker on the short bus in junior high

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Super20G	Sep-22-04 10:51 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2545 posts,

#80886, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 22

Originally posted by Collente
wiseco pistons suck ass... end of story

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CrazyEclipse	Sep-22-04 01:42 PM
Member since Jul 30th 2002 2503 posts,

#80887, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 25

Ladies, calm down.

1998 GS-Turbo KANDY -- For Sale
1999 GS-Non Turbo 10th anniversary Edition

I have been in bed with Dino.....ask me for a picture!

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dougie2	Sep-22-04 01:58 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#80888, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 25

Originally posted by Collente wiseco pistons suck ass... end of story

Doug

Xtreme Performance Services
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turbo8u	Sep-22-04 02:00 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80889, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 27

tell that to the srt-4 guys with wiseco pistons pushing 400whp daily.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

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dougie2	Sep-22-04 02:33 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#80890, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 28

Originally posted by turbo8u
tell that to the srt-4 guys with wiseco pistons pushing 400whp daily.

I don't care what the "SRT-4 guys with Wiseco pistons" think... I'm pushing 400whp daily too and I'm using a QUALITY piston made by JE. I'm not even going to get into the specifics that make Wiseco 420A pistons inferior, it's been discussed here many times before... but don't talk them up like they're great piston. They're not.

Installed properly or not, it's still a poorly engineered piston. Not all Wiseco's pistons suck... but the 420A piston they make I wouldn't even use as stock replacement.

Doug

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DarkOne	Sep-22-04 02:36 PM
Donating 2GNT member 14938 posts,

#80891, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 28
Sep-22-04 02:36 PM by DarkOne

Originally posted by turbo8u
tell that to the srt-4 guys with wiseco pistons pushing 400whp daily.

They do that on STOCK pistons, which are made by MAHLE, same as our stock stuff. if they're running Weiscos and only making 400wHP, they're doing something wrong besides just that.

______________________________
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'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

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turbo8u	Sep-22-04 02:45 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80892, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 30
Sep-22-04 02:47 PM by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by turbo8u tell that to the srt-4 guys with wiseco pistons pushing 400whp daily.

They do that on STOCK pistons, which are made by MAHLE, same as our stock stuff. if they're running Weiscos and only making 400wHP, they're doing something wrong besides just that.

im just saying, choad. wisecos will hold up fine. so all this 'wiseco sucks' is just moronic.

edit:

Originally posted by dougie2
... but the 420A piston they make I wouldn't even use as stock replacement.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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dougie2	Sep-22-04 05:43 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#80903, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 31

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by dougie2
... but the 420A piston they make I wouldn't even use as stock replacement.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

By laughing at my statement, shall I assume you think that 420A Wiseco pistons are mechanically more reliable than the stock pistons? You are ignorant, sir. Ignorance must be bliss.

Doug

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turbo8u	Sep-23-04 06:08 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80914, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 41
Sep-23-04 06:15 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by dougie2

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by dougie2 ... but the 420A piston they make I wouldn't even use as stock replacement.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

By laughing at my statement, shall I assume you think that 420A Wiseco pistons are mechanically more reliable than the stock pistons? You are ignorant, sir. Ignorance must be bliss.

420a wiseco pistons > stock 420a pistons

you're just retarded for thinking otherwise.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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dougie2	Sep-23-04 02:40 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#80934, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 46
Sep-23-04 02:43 PM by dougie2

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
Weiscos are shit pistons made out of semisolid shit that's been painted the colour of aluminium. Why the fuck does it matter that they can handle 400 WHP on an SRT-4? It doesn't. Stock pistons handle 400 WHP on an SRT-4. What's so amazing about Weiscos doing it? When everything is in tune, the Weiscos are probably going to be fine. Probably. Not all the time, though. Sometimes shit works loose when it's "engineered" and built by a bunch of ignorant shitstained fucksmacks, like the people at Weisco. Point is, they are shit. Too many of them fail. Too many of them melt. Too many of them crack. They fucking suck. They can't even get wrist pin length correct. I wonder what else they fucked up on? Installing wrist pin locks is not really rocket science. Clip, meet groove. Groove, meet clip. Done and all set, unless the clip, groove, and/or the wrist pin is defective. And for the record, the ends of the wrist pins are beveled to prevent them from being too sharp. Grinding on a 90 with no bevel will start grinding on the retaining clip, and at some point it will fail. Have fun with that!

^^^^^ Every word of that is 100% correct.

Originally posted by turbo8u
420a wiseco pistons > stock 420a pistons
you're just retarded for thinking otherwise.

I've installed a couple batches of each in several 420A engines that I've built. I've never... not one single time, had to send back a stock piston because of manufacturing flaws. The two 420A engines I've installed Wiseco pistons in, I had to send back the first set both times because of flaws... and their tech guys are morons BTW. The first time I thought it was a fluke, the second time I was pissed... and after seeing what others on this board have gone though I'll never buy another 420A piston from Wiseco.

I'm not retarded for trusting a stock piston over a Wiseco. It's a poorly designed piston. If you can't tell that just by looking at it, then you aren't even qualified to state that a Wiseco piston is better than anything. I wish you would try to learn something for a change instead of calling everyone names and acting like you know it all. Sheesh!

Doug

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turbo8u	Sep-23-04 02:47 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80935, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 47
Sep-23-04 02:48 PM by turbo8u

Originally posted by dougie2
If you can't tell that just by looking at it, then you aren't even qualified to state that a Wiseco piston is better than anything.

just by looking at it? LMFAO. yea dude, you can tell how strong a piston is by how it looks

Originally posted by dougie2 I wish you would try to learn something for a change instead of calling everyone names and acting like you know it all. Sheesh!

you started the name calling there brutha by calling me ignorant. i have first hand knowledge/experience that wisecos hold up just fine so if you want to say im a 'know it all' then thats fine, but im not going to stand around why a bunch of people say wiseco sucks when they handle 19psi daily just fine. and this is not just coming from myself paging mrslick to the white courtesy phone

you take your stock internals, i'll take my wiseco's.

until then happy eyeballing your parts to see whats better

stock rods cant handle 19psi either can they? lol maybe YOU should try learning something instead of running around calling people ignorant and acting like you know it all.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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dougie2	Sep-23-04 07:27 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#80950, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 48
Sep-23-04 07:30 PM by dougie2

Originally posted by turbo8u
just by looking at it? LMFAO. yea dude, you can tell how strong a piston is by how it looks

I didn't say I can tell the strength of the piston by looking at. I was referring to it's DESIGN. It's a very poor design. And that sir, you CAN TELL just by looking at it. Well, not you.

Originally posted by turbo8u
you started the name calling there brutha by calling me ignorant.

I didn't call you a name. I said you're ignorant, meaning unaware or misinformed.

Originally posted by turbo8u
i have first hand knowledge/experience that wisecos hold up just fine so if you want to say im a 'know it all' then thats fine, but im not going to stand around why a bunch of people say wiseco sucks when they handle 19psi daily just fine.

Get off your "Wiseco's hold XXX psi daily" kick. Again, for the third or forth time, I'm not referring to the strength, but rather the poor design and manufacturing.

Originally posted by turbo8u
you take your stock internals, i'll take my wiseco's.

I don't have stock internals. And yes, you'll probably always have cheap Wiseco pistons. That's why you got them, right?... because they're cheap? Right.

Originally posted by turbo8u
until then happy eyeballing your parts to see whats better

I never said I eyeball parts to see "which is better". But I do eyeball parts to check for quality workmanship and design characteristics. You really do show that you're unaware (see: ignorant)

Originally posted by turbo8u
stock rods cant handle 19psi either can they?

That's weird, I didn't know that connecting rods are rated by the "PSI they can handle". Where exactly do you get your information anyhow?

Originally posted by turbo8u
lol maybe YOU should try learning something instead of running around calling people ignorant and acting like you know it all.

I am learning... I really am. I learned that our connecting rods are rated at 19 psi. LOL

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=59394&mesg_id=59394&listing_type=search#59429

Doug

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turbo8u	Sep-23-04 08:43 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80952, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 52

lol its great to watch you get all worked up, but in reality...you dont really know what you're talking about... ....thats ok though, go ahead on your little kick there dougster

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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DarkOne	Sep-22-04 09:57 PM
Donating 2GNT member 14938 posts,

#80909, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 31

Originally posted by turbo8u
im just saying, choad. wisecos will hold up fine. so all this 'wiseco sucks' is just moronic.

So they hold up as well as an 8.1:1 compression factory cast piston? Awesome.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

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grain	Sep-22-04 11:08 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2551 posts,

#80910, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 43

get some cp's and call it a day. also dino's avatar is sweet.

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Ark	Sep-22-04 02:51 PM
Member since Aug 31st 2004 1570 posts,

#80893, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 28

Originally posted by turbo8u
tell that to the srt-4 guys with wiseco pistons pushing 400whp daily.

At this rate, turbo8u, you ought to just buy one. A retarded, pole smoking crack whore could tune an SRT-4 and it doesn't take Weisco slugs to do it.

__________________________________________
~Chris

forums.kaptainmyke.com/index.php?&act=garage&CODE=12&CID=8
- AGP CAI
- AGP EVM
- MOPAR Stage 1 ECU
- 500cc Injectors

And he wonders why he couldn't make her happy...and someone obviously hasnt moved on. lol

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turbo8u	Sep-22-04 03:03 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80894, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 32

Originally posted by Ark

Originally posted by turbo8u tell that to the srt-4 guys with wiseco pistons pushing 400whp daily.

At this rate, turbo8u, you ought to just buy one. A retarded, pole smoking crack whore could tune an SRT-4 and it doesn't take Weisco slugs to do it.

all im saying is they reliably handle the power, how the fuck did tuning come into this equation?

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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Ark	Sep-22-04 03:06 PM
Member since Aug 31st 2004 1570 posts,

#80895, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 33

Originally posted by turbo8u
how the fuck did tuning come into this equation?

SRT's come with Weisco's and 400whp stock?

__________________________________________
~Chris

forums.kaptainmyke.com/index.php?&act=garage&CODE=12&CID=8
- AGP CAI
- AGP EVM
- MOPAR Stage 1 ECU
- 500cc Injectors

And he wonders why he couldn't make her happy...and someone obviously hasnt moved on. lol

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turbo8u	Sep-22-04 03:08 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80896, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 34

Originally posted by Ark

Originally posted by turbo8u how the fuck did tuning come into this equation?

SRT's come with Weisco's and 400whp stock?

no. you must have missed my point the 3 times i laid it out.

they will handle the power reliably

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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Ark	Sep-22-04 03:26 PM
Member since Aug 31st 2004 1570 posts,

#80897, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 35

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by Ark

Originally posted by turbo8u how the fuck did tuning come into this equation?

SRT's come with Weisco's and 400whp stock?

no. you must have missed my point the 3 times i laid it out. they will handle the power reliably

Maybe...once you get past the numerous batches with defects and boxes filled with things that look like pistons.

__________________________________________
~Chris

forums.kaptainmyke.com/index.php?&act=garage&CODE=12&CID=8
- AGP CAI
- AGP EVM
- MOPAR Stage 1 ECU
- 500cc Injectors

And he wonders why he couldn't make her happy...and someone obviously hasnt moved on. lol

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CrazyEclipse	Sep-22-04 03:36 PM
Member since Jul 30th 2002 2503 posts,

#80898, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 36

jus let it go.... LOL

1998 GS-Turbo KANDY -- For Sale
1999 GS-Non Turbo 10th anniversary Edition

I have been in bed with Dino.....ask me for a picture!

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97whitESi	Sep-22-04 03:59 PM
Member since Mar 17th 2004 1334 posts,

#80899, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 37

not to hijack the thread, but uhh
how the fuck do you pronounce wiseco, or weisco as i have also seen
is it like wy-zeko, or wise-co or wessco or something like that?

2005 Legacy GT Ltd, Garnet Red Pearl
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Ark	Sep-22-04 04:01 PM
Member since Aug 31st 2004 1570 posts,

#80900, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 38

Originally posted by 97whitESi
not to hijack the thread, but uhh how the fuck do you pronounce wiseco, or weisco as i have also seen is it like wy-zeko, or wise-co or wessco or something like that?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=marshmallow

__________________________________________
~Chris

forums.kaptainmyke.com/index.php?&act=garage&CODE=12&CID=8
- AGP CAI
- AGP EVM
- MOPAR Stage 1 ECU
- 500cc Injectors

And he wonders why he couldn't make her happy...and someone obviously hasnt moved on. lol

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Ducking_Fumbass	Sep-22-04 04:47 PM
Member since Aug 30th 2004 1147 posts,

#80902, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 39

Weiscos are shit pistons made out of semisolid shit that's been painted the colour of aluminium. Why the fuck does it matter that they can handle 400 WHP on an SRT-4? It doesn't. Stock pistons handle 400 WHP on an SRT-4. What's so amazing about Weiscos doing it?

When everything is in tune, the Weiscos are probably going to be fine. Probably. Not all the time, though. Sometimes shit works loose when it's "engineered" and built by a bunch of ignorant shitstained fucksmacks, like the people at Weisco.

Point is, they are shit. Too many of them fail. Too many of them melt. Too many of them crack. They fucking suck. They can't even get wrist pin length correct. I wonder what else they fucked up on?

Installing wrist pin locks is not really rocket science. Clip, meet groove. Groove, meet clip. Done and all set, unless the clip, groove, and/or the wrist pin is defective.

And for the record, the ends of the wrist pins are beveled to prevent them from being too sharp. Grinding on a 90 with no bevel will start grinding on the retaining clip, and at some point it will fail. Have fun with that!

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totaleklipse97	Sep-22-04 06:17 PM
Member since May 14th 2003 3589 posts,

#80904, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 25

Originally posted by Super20G

Originally posted by Collente wiseco pistons suck ass... end of story

je's... that's all

my car will sound like, bumbabumbubavrooooooooooooooomrooooooooahhhhhhhhhhhhh, kishhhhhh
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DSM= The frustration of fixing

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soulcontroller	Sep-23-04 04:02 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2490 posts,

#80911, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 42
Sep-23-04 04:03 AM by soulcontroller

nm

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DR1665v2	Sep-23-04 03:23 PM
Member since Sep 07th 2004 1223 posts,

#80937, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 45

OH THE DRAMA!

The fact of the matter is I have one sitting here in front of me on my desk. It is depressing, as it is a sign that Daisy is gutted in run4cvr's backyard (his name is John BTW). A painful reminder that, for the first time in 8 years, Daisy has left me SOL.

I'm fairly certain my dilemma was caused by three factors:

1. Oil Starvation - a contributing factor caused, in my opinion, by my lack of experience and being half-assed by eyeballing piston ring gaps, which allowed oil to be broken down by blow by and oil to be lost by burn off. Oil level was maintained regularly, albeit she was always at the "add" line on the dipstick. She lost a quart every tank of gas (400 miles).

2. General Ineptitude - This was the first rebuild any of us attempted here in Arizona. A true learning experience. After 25k miles, it was apparent, even to me, that the crank and mains should have been machined up, as the rod bearings showed severe uneven wear across the board.

3. Weaker Pistons - Although the marshmallows, er, Wisecos are a decent piston (at least I would agree they are unless you're building a severe duty engine), when faced with my half-assed building skills and lack of tunability, they met their match.

4. Machine Shop - The machine shop that assembled the pistons/rods seemed to be staffed by complete morons. Not only did they tell me to install the pistons backwards (which may be a "trick" for dinosaur owners), they were about as confidence inspiring to talk to about the rebuild as gilee_8.

5. My inability to count properly.

So I think both camps are right here. I'd say that there was nothing wrong with the Wisecos while there was nothing wrong with my engine. Once the tolerances got sloppy, their days were numbered. I'm sure this would be the case for any quality pistons as well, but I'm thinking a more solid piston would grant more slack in the battle against failure. As a small piece of mind for the future of Daisy's powerplant, I will not be returning to the Wiseco catalog for my slugs. I will be using the custom pistons ERT has recommended for me. I'd go with JEs, but it seems they don't make a 10.5:1 CR 2.4L piston yet.

Oh yeah, and I think I like the term fucksmack. Where do you guys come up with these wonderful new words?

"By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest." - Confucius

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Ark	Sep-23-04 03:30 PM
Member since Aug 31st 2004 1570 posts,

#80939, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 49

Originally posted by DR1665v2
Where do you guys come up with these wonderful new words?

1st word = random curse word. 2nd word = random noun or verb

__________________________________________
~Chris

forums.kaptainmyke.com/index.php?&act=garage&CODE=12&CID=8
- AGP CAI
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- MOPAR Stage 1 ECU
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turbo8u	Sep-23-04 03:40 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80940, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 49

Originally posted by DR1665v2
1. Oil Starvation 4. Machine Shop - The machine shop that assembled the pistons/rods seemed to be staffed by complete morons.

and there you have it.

Originally posted by DR1665v2
I'd go with JEs, but it seems they don't make a 10.5:1 CR 2.4L piston yet.

yea i know, you're going to have to have some custom ones made. ERT can put in the order, but personally....i;d talk to the mopar turbo guru's over at forward motion and see what they can do for you. they "hooked" me up, but also jacked about a g and a half

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96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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DR1665v2	Sep-24-04 02:59 AM
Member since Sep 07th 2004 1223 posts,

#80955, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 51

Thanks for the advice Josh (and everyone else), but I'm going to spend my money at ERT regardless. No reason to go anywhere else. I'm not taking any chances to save a couple bones. (Which goes to show you new guys a thing or two imo.)

I had to upload pics of the bad tire before work this AM, so I finally got the ones of my damaged cylinder walls uploaded. All the ones I took of the piston were shity and blurry, so this is all that's worth looking at. Fux0r3d!

I think this one shows the damage caused by the top edge of the piston leaning over into the wall and slapping. The edge was starting to round down. It had a nice polish to it there.

IN the middle here, you can see where the wrist pin was riding on the wall. Two vertical lines about a half inch apart running up the middle. This would be so much cooler if I had a built 2-4 ready to go...

If I didn't have a Mountain Dew right here already, I would be thinking about getting one on my way back in. This was the messiest engine pull I have ever done. Remember that fight scene in The Transporter? Yeah. It was kinda like that. Only Daisy kicked my ass instead of me strapping on some bike pedals and whooping ass.

"By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest." - Confucius

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silvreclipsers	Sep-24-04 04:36 AM
Donating 2GNT member 1756 posts,

#80957, "RE: DR1665's Wiseco Piston Crack - Pictures"
In response to Reply # 54

Originally posted by DR1665v2
Remember that fight scene in The Transporter? Yeah. It was kinda like that. Only Daisy kicked my ass instead of me strapping on some bike pedals and whooping ass.

that was a kick ass fight scene

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98 Silver Eclipse RS ATX
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Performance/Engine

topic #80737

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