Just got off the Dyno at Twisted Innovations. I ended up adding some timing and fuel, ended up with a max of 29* spark advance. My last Dyno was 167 with the motor with the SOHC neon pistons in it, and that run was done in 4th gear. I had to dyno all day in 3rd, because by the time I tried 4th my motor was heat soaked, and intake temps were reaching 130*, on top of a long ass pull that will definately raise EGTs. I started hearing some pinging so I just backed off and printed the 3rd gear pull. 29* of timing, 13.0 AFR, 90* Duty Cycle, and revved until the power tapered off (7500). So Im thinking my motor is maxed out for the time being. Although I am thinking about changing back to my V2 intake from my Autozone 3" SRI, soley because of the retarded intake temps.

Graph and Vid to come later tonight.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

#winning

Good job beating Tim.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

awesome!

-Jason

97 Talon ESi-T (forever in progress...)


95 GS (Gone)
16.74@83.18mph
119.8 whp - 113.3 lbs/ft


2GNT #677
My Wiki Page: www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Iamnotwhoiam
Pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/iamnotwhoiam/Talon/

The Vid

http://youtu.be/U-bKmU18Drg

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Post up the graph, interested to see the power band.

---

2012 2500HD LML

Fucking A excellent! Congrats and away we go.

I bet you with a LTH you're real close to 200whp (sae corrected right?). Nice info on the 90% duty cycle (on stockers right?). Fits right into where we should be.

Yes, you should to dyno in 3rd. Matt does all mine in 3rd.

Torque numbers? Sheet?

You'll learn to bring the intake with you to the dyno nest time, so you can change them on a back to back run. But I'm pert near positive you'll lose over the SRI. I've done a couple of set-ups with that comparison.

Now we're getting somewhere.......

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Well apparently our new scanner gives you the pictures in PDF format, so I have to prtsrn them and paste them in paint. But here they are. The numbers are SAE corrected, but the WCF doesnt show in the graph, only on the chart.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

I also didnt notice till I got home that the lower page has time instead of RPM :| But the max RPM was 7350, min was 2500, and where the HP and TQ cross is 5252, so that should put it in perspective.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Heres my 167 for comparison.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Unless I'm crazy, which is possible, that graph tops out at 180 and your line is under that? So the SAE corrected numbers are 177.7 correct?

As I said, the correction doesnt apply to the graph. The numbers are corrected afterwards and are shown on the printout

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

They need to show the appropriate year on their sheets.

95 GS Boosted

It says 2012 on it

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Don't mind me, im an idiot. Was looking at your 167 dyno sheet.

95 GS Boosted

lol thats what I figured.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Congratulations, I say you take your women out someplace nice and brag everyday. Enjoy it for the very extremely short time that it will last. And even if you still somehow out dyno me, you got to learn to drive the damn thing! (Yes those are fighting words!! I mean you don't race as bad as Tim but still)

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Oh, I can drive at the track just fine. The problem is, and Im willing to put money on it, I have the heaviest car out of you and Tim.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Congratulations.

You know what? I need to swap some 10.5's in my car, get the MS2 hooked up and running, and see what I can bring to the table.

Boy that would fun.

I contributed to the Wiki.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

Steve, you should definately make more HP than me and Tim if youre going 10.5 and 2.2l. Stroked motors are torque monsters. Of course then,..... you wont be an all motor 2.0 anymore. All motor 2.2...

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Theres alot of things I could do to shave weight, but this is still my daily driver, and I enjoy blowing the doors off of Hondas and then turn on my AC like its no big thing. Im def going to hit 14s with full interior and options though.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

Mines my daily driver as well, but I am to manly for ac... ok some days I do miss it.

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

Congrats on the numbers.. I was wandering why you decided to build your motor with 10.5:1 compression instead of 12.5:1. They say one jump in compression is good for 10 hp and you could have hit the 200whp mark with that?.. then add some itb's, a bad ass header, run e85.. who knows?

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

That's cool. I understand. Less chance of detonation, and more fun until you go boost.. What kind of intake manifold do you have?

Its a heavily ported/polished/gasket matched and bored to 60mm stocker, with a 60mm MPX TB on it.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

I was also curious about one more thing.. Tim said he had Crower 3's
and you have Crower 2's. You both have the same compression and a pretty much identical setup besides the cams... So why are you making more power than he is?

Before I even get into this, Im just going to say that obviously 2 cars on 2 different Dynos by 2 different Dyno companies and in 2 different states isnt an apples to apples comparison, but when you go to the Dyno that is closest to you, you run what you can. Your numbers will be consistent if you mod and go back to the same Dyno, but not from Dyno to Dyno.

Tim actually has Crane 18s, which are very similar to Crowers stage 3, but not exactly in either duration or lift. Technically, I dont have true Crower 2s either. I have crower cams, which were advertised as stage 2, but instead both say 64462-E (instead of 64462-2), and the lift on both the intake and exhaust dont match up to Crowers listed specs of the stage 2. I emailed crower and they confirmed they are bigger, but dont know what they are.

Having said that, Tim and I have similar mods, but not the same. If you were to build two motors, with EXACTLY the same parts and put them on the same Dyno, the numbers would not match up exactly. No two motors make the same exact power. If Tim is willing to share and complete build list we could compare the differences, but I went all out with everything. The head is ported out to the point of making the intake/exhaust walls thin. The intake is the same way, including the boring/adding material on the neck to fit the 60mm, 3 inch CAI/SRI, 4-1 Header and 2.5" catback with a magnaflow cat. And what it really comes down to is the tune. I have my car tuned way past the "safe" zone. I literally advanced the timing until it was detonating and backed it off a degree or two until the motor was making some mad power but doing so happily and without knock.

Then theres another problem, Mustang Dynos use SAE as their WCF, while Tims Dyno graph shows STD correction. Theres about a 17* difference in the temperature correction between them. If that wasnt bad enough, Mustang Dynos typically read lower than Dynojets, but not by much.

To end this rant, Tim made 170 HP/ 149 TQ in his part of the world on his dyno, and I made 186 HP/ 150 TQ in my part of the world on my dyno. (Notice the TQ numbers....) The only way to settle something as close as this,... Is to get on the same Dyno on the same day while the weather remains relatively constant. Maybe one day before I turbo mine.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

What did he do to add more material? I've heard of people doing it, but never seen it done.

Im honestly not totally sure what he did, but I know he basically welded the one side just to build up more material. Where the plenum normally necks down before the TB, mine is about the same size down the whole side, he had to add that much.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

My bad, I thought Tim said he had Crowers, so yeah in that case duration has alot to do with it (as well as other little things and different dynos).... I was just under the assumption you two had a pretty much identical setup, besides Crower 2's (you) and 3's (Tim).. Which threw me off cause for u to have a 17hp increase with a smaller cam set up (I thought was smaller) Is a little backwards. That's what I get for assuming. lol

Double check all your coolant and oil lines....., before you take off and see a cloud of smoke behind you!

Not bad I am building an all motor 420a my self with 10:5's. I shooting for around 180 to the wheels, this has being in planning for a year or so. {Any advise would be great)

Advice? Search is the key here, 180whp is not as easy as it sounds. Remember, these cars with bolt ons make around 117whp. For 180 you'll have to do some pretty extensive mods.

I know 180hp is not going to be easy, But I have been following bullet for awhile and I think I can pull it off. I understand it's going to take alot of time and testing and am ready for that.
I have got most of the stuff to build the engine pistons,crower springs and so on. The part I can deside on is cams not sure if crower 2's or 3's would be best for my build.

Honestly, If I had the money I would go Crower 3s right now, maybe even 12.5:1 compression on the street. But with my motor only having 2000 miles on it, and a baby on the way, 186 is most likely as high as my 420A will make it. I am very proud of what Ive built, but shes getting old, and Im thinking an Evo is in my near future.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

I would love to go 12:5.1 but the octane level of the fuel around here is not high enough to run the high of comp piston. Also there not very many place's around here that have E85 so thats out. I could go megasquirt and tune it to run with the fuel around here but my car is a 99 so it will fail inspection if I go with megasquirt. So for now I'm going 10:5 with a afx ecu.

I think you could do 12.5:1 and be fine on the afx, just need to have a big cam to bleed some compression. Years ago DJ420a made right over 400 on 10.5:1 on a stock spark map and pump gas so I see no reason why upping the compression on a na car wouldn't work.

Any one else agree with slo2g?

Not saying your wrong 2g I just wanted some input from others. Also the highest grade fuel we have is 93, 100 in some place's but most all we have is 93. I might give it a try but I would have to sell my 10:5's in order to do so.

I'll agree with him, because I also remember when DJ420a did this. It's all in the tuning and know-how. Regardless, you still run the risk of breaking something.

It's up to you to weigh the risk/reward.

I contributed to the Wiki.