I'm not sure how to explain this, but I'll do the best I can and hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction. I have a ClutchMasters Stage IV clutch. I wanted to use my stock flywheel b/c it only had 40k miles on it. So I took out the stock clutch, drilled out the rivets and tapped it to except the CM clutch and had it re-surfaced. Nothing crazy so far. The problem came this weekend when I tried to assemble it. When I tighted down the bolts the fingers (I don't know what else to call them) on the CM pressure plate depressed to the point where they were actually touching the clutch disk. I KNOW this is not right b/c the clutch is virtually engaged. The problem is I don't know why. I'm not even sure what questions to ask:
-Is the CM clutch not compatable with a stock flywheel?
-Am I doing something wrong?
-Should I NOT be tightening the pressure plate all the way? (that doesn't make sense to me)
-Am I missing some sort of spacer or something?
-Do I have the wrong clutch?

The problem def. appears to be in the pressure plate. I compared clutch disks (stock and new), they are virtually identical in size and thickness.

Sorry I don't have pics to clarify, I have a digi camera, but I don't have a web site to host.

Your help/insight is most appreciated.

1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

Wow, I can see this is going to be a popular thread

1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

The clutch bolted together should be making contact. The clutch disengages from the trans when you step on the clutch pedal.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus

Sounds like you have the disk in backwards..The center spline hub on the disk will stick out more on one side, than the other. The shortest side of the hub that sticks out of the disk, faces towards the Pressure plate...BE SURE you have a way to center the disk!!!! Do not fully tighten the clutch bolts down until it is perfectly centered! If its not centered, you wont be able to get your bolts from the flex plate to the clutch on, or they wont line up correctly..This is all I can think of, as to what your problem is..check it

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Well, turns out I didn't have anything backwards or anything crazy like that. I got on the horn with CM today and discovered I have the wrong clutch on my hands. It's for a 95 Eclipse with a non-modular setup, which uses a different pressure plate all together - which is why it was not assembling correctly. I bought it off PowerEclipses about a year ago, knowing I wanted to go with better clutch once I had more power, without really doing a whole lot of research about it. My goof. So now it's for sale in the FS forum:

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=16&topic_id=43189&mesg_id=43189&page=

I thought about keeping it and getting a 94/95 Neon flywheel and going with a non-modular setup, but I don't want the difficultly of dropping the tranny that comes with it. Thanks for your help anyway guys. At least I can sleep tonight knowing it wasn't me doing something wrong.

Lesson: Live and learn - sometimes the hard way.

1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

Wait a minute.....i have put a 95 neon flywheel next to my modualr flywheel and they are the same on the disk side. the only difference is the mounts for the flexplate. If you have a setup for a non mod eclipse you have a 4g63 clutch.

Terry
96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header/evo exhaust - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, ceramic intake, 450 Turbo injectors, SFMU/return line, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

The problem is with the difference in the pressure plates. You are correct the flywheels are pretty much the same, with the exception of one having starter teeth, and the other not, and the clutch disks are identicial. The pressure plate diaphram is completely different however, which is where the problem comes in.
Does that make sense?

1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Yeah, when I assembled, it went together great. The holes lined up perfectly. I was able to finger thread in the bolts until they started getting tight. I'd like to think that's b/c of my great tap job

"because that means you can't purchase the "modular" CM plate separately..at least I dont think you can..money loss for them ya know."

-What did you by CM plate? ... the pressure plate? Your right, I don't know of any company that sells just a pressure plate.

I guess the only true way to solve this dilemma would be to find a non-mod flywheel from a Neon or 95 Eclipse and see if the CM pressure plate I have bolts up to it properly or not. Unfortunately I don't know anyone nearby that has their car as ripped apart as I do.

"AFAIK" - thanks!

1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

Well here is what I found out today, talking with the clutch builder I am working with. I'll try and explain this best I can..There are 2 different pressure plates in use for our transmissions, the Luk, and the Sachs, which are different plates, not just the brand name. The Luk plate is narrower than the sachs, AND there is a difference between flywheels, amoung Luk and Sachs. From what I was told, You HAVE to use a Luk plate, with a Luk flywheel, and vise versa, or it wont work right, as you have found out. There is a big stepping difference between the flywheels(how thick it is and where the contact surface sits for the friction surface). One is thinner than the other, just like the pressure plates. So if you try to bolt a Luk plate to a Sachs flywheel, you will prob end up with the problem you have now. From what I know, the PP you have from CM is a Luk, correct? It *should* be stamped on the front of the PP, its fairly small though..From what I can tell, most 2gnt's use a modular Sachs clutch, and its much, much more common in use, than the Luk modular setups. So when you talked to CM, they didn't really lie to you, or give you incorrect info, but they left out one important part..You CAN use the pressure plate you have now, BUT you have to use it with a LUK modular flywheel..They are harder to come by also..I was told by my clutch guy, that there are the exact same stepping between the modular LUK flywheel, and the NON modular 94/95 neon flywheel, so it should work, utilizing a LUK modular flywheel..Only thing is, you will have to source a complete LUK mod clutch setup, just to get the flywheel, as you can't find/buy them separately. So basically, to sum it up, you are trying to bolt a "thin" pressure plate to a "thin" flywheel..where as you need to be using a "thicker" flywheel(the LUK).

If you can, can you take any up close pics of both the Pressure plate front/rear, and the flywheel you were trying to use, front/rear? Can you find any brand markings on either the PP, or the flywheel? That would help a ton, and pretty much solidify all of this info here..

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Hmm. Good research man. Once again you have completely impressed me. Everything you said makes perfect sense to me. Ok, to sum up:

As you know, I'm using the CM PP, which according to you is equivalent to a Luk PP. Correct?

I'm using the stock flywheel, with the rivets drilled out and tapped. So it's safe to assume the stock flywheel is most similar to a SACHS flywheel. And b/c of this difference, a Luk PP to a SACHS flywheel, it's not bolting together correctly .... if I'm understanding this correctly.


I'll e/m pics to you, either tonight or sometime tomorrow.

1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

hey im replacing my stock clutch and what i noticed is the flywheel is stuck to the pressure plate and the disc. Its held by rivets. how do i get them off? what do i use to hold everything together once i start assembling after i resurface the flywheel. Thanks.

Midnight Tuning Team
~Whip It~

Yes, yes it is. Because we run a Modular Clutch on MOST 2GNT's, it can only be replaced as one unit "Clutch Disc & Pressure Plate". Of course then just bolting to the flywheel.

Just search Modular Clutch. You will see a setup similar if not the same to, this order on a 2GNT.

From block side, Flywheel Bolts to Crankshaft, Modular Clutch UNIT bolts to flywheel, Throw Out Bearing sits on finger side of clutch, & a clutch fork holds the TOB on the input shaft "between the clutch & clutch fork."

Hope that helps some, But no, there isn't an EASY replacement of just cleaning or replacing the disc, need the whole unit. You would spend awhile drilling out rivets, only to have a bitch of a time finding the right disc again.

Jeff.

P.S- Mod's don't like it when you bring back old threads, so when possible, please search for your answer/problem before resurrecting an old post, Thanks.

Originally posted by 740TurboBrick

"Dsms run on Gasoline, DSMers run on Alcohol...Id bring a tank to refuel the DSMers..."

I did a write up in the wiki on the differences between modular and non mod. I'm on my tuning laptop right now (vacation), so getting a link is very slow. Look through the wiki and you'll find it in there. I think it will help you understand.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm