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Auto Trans- A604

topic #4510

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Subject: "Talon 97 TCU"

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igounfazed	Sep-12-06 06:36 AM
Member since May 05th 2005 19 posts,

#4510, "Talon 97 TCU"

Hey. Anyone ever taken a 97 TCU (Transmission Control Unit) apart? I am taking mine apart and need a little assistance. If anyone here has ever done it before, has any pictures, etc. Your insight could help me out a bit. I don't want to break it. Just take it apart and run it through my Huntron, components one at a time.

I already took it out of the car, took the covers off, took off the inside heat sink clip, and am half way done with the composite coating removal. Just have a little snag with taking the board out. Seems a bit tight on the connector side, and I can't see anything holding it down.

(PS: I looked on this forum for pictures or other information, but nothing showed up for the type of information I am looking for. Only things I found were for removing it from the car or others asking "what it is?".)

"in hell its dark and grusome
but fire can light the way
and all whom hide in shadows
will brave to have the day"

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Replies to this topic

RE: Talon 97 TCU, thedawg, Sep-12-06 12:32 PM, #1

Talon 97 TCU, igounfazed, Sep-14-06 06:33 AM, #2

RE: Talon 97 TCU, Team

DR1665, Sep-14-06 06:54 AM, #3

RE: Talon 97 TCU, thedawg, Sep-14-06 03:35 PM, #4

RE: Talon 97 TCU, turbo8u, Sep-14-06 03:49 PM, #5

RE: Talon 97 TCU, igounfazed, Sep-18-06 02:46 AM, #6

RE: Talon 97 TCU, cougar694u, Sep-18-06 06:21 AM, #7

RE: Talon 97 TCU, Team

DR1665, Sep-18-06 07:48 AM, #8

RE: Talon 97 TCU, Chamuko, Sep-18-06 08:24 AM, #9

RE: Talon 97 TCU, cougar694u, Sep-19-06 02:26 AM, #12

RE: Talon 97 TCU, Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Sep-18-06 09:01 AM, #10

RE: Talon 97 TCU, thedawg, Sep-18-06 12:43 PM, #11

RE: Talon 97 TCU, igounfazed, Sep-19-06 03:11 PM, #13

thedawg	Sep-12-06 12:32 PM
Donating 2GNT member 6287 posts,

#4511, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 0

1) Why would you take the TCU apart? What did your car do to warrant such dissection?

2) You mean the transmission computer, and not the airbag or engine computers right? The one under the radio?

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igounfazed	Sep-14-06 06:33 AM
Member since May 05th 2005 19 posts,

#4512, "Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 1

I took it apart out of total curiosity. Plus, I wanted to check the quality of the components within.

It is the TCU (from center counsel, behind the radio).

I did get it apart though. Just yesterday. It was the conformal coating that was keeping it together. I used some alcohol (the non drinking type) to make the coating weak and then pulled it out with the help of a bolt and a vise-clamp.

If no one has ever seen the inside of one, I can take some pictures of it when I get it totally cleaned off with alcohol. That coating is Jello like, just stickier, and a pain to remove.

Does anyone know of any upgrades that could be done? Would be a good thing to do them now as I have it out of its square home!

"in hell its dark and grusome
but fire can light the way
and all whom hide in shadows
will brave to have the day"

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DR1665	Sep-14-06 06:54 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14692 posts,

#4513, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 2

Originally posted by igounfazed
I took it apart out of total curiosity.

Honest enough. The car might never run again, but you'd know what the inside of the TCM looks like, right?

Originally posted by igounfazed
Plus, I wanted to check the quality of the components within.

I think it's safe to say that, with a bazillion of these cars on the road, DaimlerChrysler used quality components. A resistor is a resistor, man.

Originally posted by igounfazed
It is the TCU (from center counsel, behind the radio).

Joy.

Originally posted by igounfazed
pulled it out with the help of a bolt and a vise-clamp.

Heh. That sounds like the voice of experience talking, right there. A bolt and a Vise clamp? Yikes. Why not hammer and chisel?

Originally posted by igounfazed
If no one has ever seen the inside of one, I can take some pictures of it when I get it totally cleaned off with alcohol. That coating is Jello like, just stickier, and a pain to remove.

I'm sure that will be neat to see, albeit pointless.

Originally posted by igounfazed
Does anyone know of any upgrades that could be done?

Nope. You're likely the first person to feel there was a need to rip into a perfectly funtional TCM just for shits and giggles. As such, there are no upgrades to be done. This has all been a complete waste of time at the risk of reduced reliability due to your removing the coating which, no doubt, also protected some of the more fragile components from vibration.

Originally posted by igounfazed
Would be a good thing to do them now as I have it out of its square home!

Very carefully put it all back together, reinstall it, and hope to God you didn't just fuck your transmission into cock's hat.

I can understand the curiousity aspect of things, as I've always been curious about electronic devices myself, but to take the TCM out of your car, open it up when you have no need to do so, and then comment that you're actually considering removing the components so you, in your infinite wisdom and EE from MIT, can test the "quality" of components (that you would likely replace with pieces from Radio Shack or, dare I say it, eBay) one at a time, is absolutely scary, man. Most people start with something simple like the gauge cluster. At least then you only risk not knowing how fast you're going or how much gas you have left in the tank. You're toying with completely disabling your vehicle.

Wowsers.

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thedawg	Sep-14-06 03:35 PM
Donating 2GNT member 6287 posts,

#4514, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 3

Wow...

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turbo8u	Sep-14-06 03:49 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#4515, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 4

That "Jello-like" substance keeps moisture out of the electronics inside to prevent corrosion and ensure longevity. Are you going to use some expanding foam when you put it back together?

Throw whatever you have in the trash and go ahead and buy another one. You likely totally ruined it by taking it apart.

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igounfazed	Sep-18-06 02:46 AM
Member since May 05th 2005 19 posts,

#4516, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 3
Sep-18-06 02:48 AM by igounfazed

Very carefully put it all back together, reinstall it, and hope to God you didn't just fuck your transmission into cock's hat.

I can understand the curiousity aspect of things, as I've always been curious about electronic devices myself, but to take the TCM out of your car, open it up when you have no need to do so, and then comment that you're actually considering removing the components so you, in your infinite wisdom and EE from MIT, can test the "quality" of components (that you would likely replace with pieces from Radio Shack or, dare I say it, eBay) one at a time, is absolutely scary, man. Most people start with something simple like the gauge cluster. At least then you only risk not knowing how fast you're going or how much gas you have left in the tank. You're toying with completely disabling your vehicle.

Wowsers.

Well, you are partly right. I am doing this out of curiosity. But I am not taking components out. I have a HUNTRON here. Put one lead to ground and the other on one side of the component and a symbol shows on the monitor. For instance: A good capacitor is a circle. So again, no components are being removed.

Components do age though. For instance, Capacitors leak, transitors loose PN junction resistance, and mini components open from heat, vibration, or improper placement. A slew of things can happen (including me giving it some ESD damage - which doesn't take much).

As for Radiohack. Whats wrong with their parts? I made a really good A/F gauge (Corbin's) with parts from Radiohack and Newark. Even parts from eBay are good. I have one seller from the UK which gives great prices on xtls (crystals) - and that includes shipping prices also (fixed my friends thumbdrive with one). None of those components were purchased bad.

So I already did the gauge thing. Just moving up a little.

Yeah, I don't have an EE from MIT, and no where near the experience of one of there graduates. But I am an Electronics Technician (ET). So I do have the fundamentals needed. That and access to cool equipment. Besides, I never heard of Einstein going to MIT or the like. (Not that I'm anwhere near a part percent of him.)

Never-the-less. I appreciate all of your concerns. They are well placed and stated. And I will take them to heart, as I see how this thing works.

I mean. How many people here have actually seen the inside of their - or of any - TCU? You can't make good things better, if you don't know anything about it. (That's part of our traing to be ET's, we get bad gear, try to find out why, then find a way to fix it. *Usually Radiohack.)

As for the conformal coating. Looking into buying some more. Its not hard to re-pour some into the square house the PCB is in.

~igounfazed!

Ps: NOTHING broke with the bolt and vise-clamp. Worked just great!

"in hell its dark and grusome
but fire can light the way
and all whom hide in shadows
will brave to have the day"

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cougar694u	Sep-18-06 06:21 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#4517, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 6

I don't understand the negativity you guys always use.
If no one ever took apart a motor, we wouldn't have upgrade components for them.
If no one ever took apart our ECU, we wouldn't have the AF/X.
If no one tried to sailed around the world, we'd still think it's flat.
We used to be the center of the solar system, too.

~Luke
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2007 GSXR 750
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DR1665	Sep-18-06 07:48 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14692 posts,

#4518, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 7

Originally posted by cougar694u
I don't understand the negativity you guys always use. If no one ever took apart a motor, we wouldn't have upgrade components for them. If no one ever took apart our ECU, we wouldn't have the AF/X. If no one tried to sailed around the world, we'd still think it's flat. We used to be the center of the solar system, too.

Hey now. I admire the sirit of exploration, but there's a difference between tearing into a motor and tearing into a perfectly functional TCU. For starters, people have been rebuilding motors for a hundred years or more, now. There really are no surpises in there. Is there a risk that you might break something and have to repair it prior to reinstallation? Of course, but you're talking about something the average shade tree mechanic with an eighth grade education can do. Electronics repair on this level is not exactly common knowledge.

1. The A604 isn't exactly known for being a performance transmission. It's designed to get people who either can not or choose not to shift a manual from point A to point B smoothly. Aside from one guy on this site, who dumped something like $3,000 or more worth of hard parts into his transmission, no one here sees the tranny as being much beyond a hinderance to performance. If you have an ATX, you're at a distinct disadvantage. I know this sounds like the 4G63 guys bashing us for bothering to try with a 420A, but the vast majority of the guys on this site concerned with making real power are ditching this tranny for the manual. It's not popular.

2. Mr. Unfazed neglected to mention his credentials as a technician who stands capable of dissecting the TCU without hamfisted shenanigans. My position was one of a person anticipating a novice pulling apart something that looked "cool" and then selling his car to the scrap yard because he fubared it all up. My first parts car was a 95 ESi ATX that, before my purchase, was owned by one jackoff who thought he could figure out a way to pass emissions by circumventing the ECU. Essentially, you fuck up the electrical system on one of these cars and you render the entire thing a parts car that will never run again. I simply intended to mention the extreme risk to attempting to fix something that "ain't broke."

3. As for RadioHack bits, I guess they're alright. I don't tend to get into the specifics of mil-spec tolerance'd resistor this and cap that. I may not be a technician on a PCB level, but I'm fairly confident that changing a couple resistors or caps here and there isn't going to do much beyond restoring the A604 to "good as new" performance, which is, in my opinion, if you're looking for real performance, something you should be removing. I would swap in the NV-T350 and then tear into the TCU to see if you can deceipher it's secrets in the interest of helping the ATX guys out.

Basically, if you can figure something out, Unfazer, kudos to you for continuing in the steps of our founders, but without knowing your technical background, you can understand why I might be quick to attempt to discourage a newbie from permanently disabling his car.

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Chamuko	Sep-18-06 08:24 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3668 posts,

#4519, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 8

I agree with the previous 2 posters.

This guy knows the risks he is taking and as such I give him props.

His car, His money, His gamble. If it pays of... we all profit,Or could. If he fugs up... oh well. I call dibs!

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cougar694u	Sep-19-06 02:26 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#4520, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 8

Originally posted by DR1665
For starters, people have been rebuilding motors for a hundred years or more, now. There really are no surpises in there.

That's what I mean. Think back a hundred years. Don't you think that people wanted to take them apart and their friends hounded them for taking apart a perfectly good engine? There was an unknown at one point then, too.

My point was merely for you not to be so closed minded.

Most people are afraid of what they don't know, and this is a clear example of it.

If he can find something for dawg's request, then awesome. If not, oh well. Nothing ventured = nothing gained.

~Luke
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2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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DarkOne	Sep-18-06 09:01 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14938 posts,

#4521, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 0

Alright - you took it apart and checked it.

What did you learn? Any insight into the unit beyond, "It's coated in potting material and hard to get out" ?

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thedawg	Sep-18-06 12:43 PM
Donating 2GNT member 6287 posts,

#4522, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 10

I'd like an SPST n/o switch that I can press to hold the current gear until I release it or the engine explodes. If you could use your cool toys to figure out where I could connect the two leads, that would be a big help.

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igounfazed	Sep-19-06 03:11 PM
Member since May 05th 2005 19 posts,

#4523, "RE: Talon 97 TCU"
In response to Reply # 11

No matter what I venture in for my car, you guys on this site are always the best! Hands down simply the best!! Yea or Nea, all of the comments are read carefully and really appreciated. I couldn't do with out ya!

Chamuko: dibs it is. )if I break it that is(

Thanx Cougar694u

"in hell its dark and grusome
but fire can light the way
and all whom hide in shadows
will brave to have the day"

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