I made a spontaneous decision Sunday to head tot he drag strip ONE MORE TIME, and since I was going I decided to use some 225/50 nitto drag radials. (mounted on 16 inch 1992 Talon Tsi swirl rims) Damn those tires have some wide tread! I also noticed the stock tires seem a bit shorter than the drg radials. I know they shouldn't be but they are. My stock tires are pretty worn, they're cose to the wear bars but they passed inspection, so I don't think the tire wear should have made THAT much of a difference.

I left the stock 14s on the back tires. (Oh, and thanks to the1bill for letting me borrow the drag radials, not like he can use them now anyway )

Ok, I got to the drag strip and it was PACKED, the 2nd most number of cars racing for one day (the most was for one of the import events). I got there late at about 1:00 and two friends of mine were already there for 2 hours and didn't run yet! I snuck into the end of the line and got a run.

I tried to warm up the tires as much as possible before the run. My launch technique was as follows, rev to 6K, dump the clutch, and it worked! The tires made a slight chirp and then the car took off from the line like it was shot from a cannon! It even seemed to bounce up and down a bit right off the line (not wheel hop, but as if the suspension was bouncing while the tires stayed glued tot he track).

I run out 1st and 2nd and the car feels pretty good, then I hit 3rd and it just fell flat on it's face. The car's RPMS as I crossed the finish line were lower than on wednesday.

The time slip proved what I was thinking. The 60' was my best ever at 2.213 seconds. I think it could have been better if I was even more agressive. The 1/8th mle was 9.991 at 68 and change MPH, the 1/4 mile was 15.67 at 87 or so MPH. Basically it really helped with the launch, and the 1/8th mile was still good, but my car didn't like turning those heavy rims and tires. And in 3rd gear (where les power is getting to the ground than in lower gears) it was very noticeable. It should have been at least a 15.50 sec run, if not a 15.4.

I didn't try to get another run. At best, I would have gotten one more and that's it. So I watched a bunch of 9 second cars run for the rest of the day. Quite the waste of gas and the entry fee.

A better 60' would have certainly dropped that 1/4 mile time, but I think the gain in the launch would be wiped out by the loss in top end. It would have been a wash, so for now (as long as I have no torque to speak of), and for anyone else in my situation (I.E. no power adder) I am still reccomending you stick with the 14 inch rims and stock tires.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

good info man. Unfortunately I was unable to make it to the track on friday like I wanted. One of the guys in my club got rear ended at 55mph while he was at a stop. Needless to say the car is totaled, on top of that it started raining, so the whole weekend was a bust. We are going to try out this new track in fayetteville on sat hopefully

Toney
'97 RS 5 Speed (totaled)
15.4606@88.42 Mph
96 Toyota Celica GT
88 Toyota Supra NA-T (w/ sports package)
Got Boost?? Hell yeah I-6 turbo powah baby!

todd- good findings... u may wanna try the ozs up front, and 14s on the back.... unless u can get a good thick patch on the 14s (im no tire guy), i got 7.5" worth on my ozs on lopro tires..

03 srt-4 13.130@112.47mph (n2o, stock turbo, 10/2003)
now: 20g, portfueler, bpu+++ (track/dyno times tbd...)

i farted on your wiki

I swapped back my stock 14s, and I compared the height of the stock tires and the nittos. The nittos were "slightly" taller, probably only due tot he stock tires being worn. It did not look like enough of a difference in tire height to significantly affect the final drive ratio.

But, the WEIGHT difference was huge! :o While I did not have a scale handy (if I did I would have weighed them both) the nittos on 92 talon Tsi alloys were FAR heavier than the stock 14 inch alloys and tires. I guess all that weight is hard to turn without boost

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

Todd - One thing that I noticed with the Nitto's is that they will slow the car down at the top end of the track. It's almost too much traction with the 225/50-16s. I switched to 225/50-15s and the BFG drag radials on 15x7.5 Kosei K1 Racing wheels.

I'm launching at about 5200RPMs and slipping the clutch aggressively. I was able to pull a 2.191 60' time and get the 1/8th mile time down to 9.987 at 69.75MPH.

Since these tires are about 1" shorter than stock, you can either run out 1st-3rd, or you can short shift 1st a little but you'll have to throw it into 4th just after the 1000' mark.

Right now, I just think both of our cars are lacking a little top end power to really get the times down. (BTW...congrats on the 15.4) The front air dam has a lot to do with that in my opinion. I actually think a 95-96 front end would be faster.

My race season is over for this year. Next year, I'll have a pair of slicks and a pair of drag radials. I'm hoping to get the motor rebuilt this winter with 11.5:1 compression on top of the rest of the mods.

97 Eclipse GS-15.463@88.57MPH - RIP
92 Talon TSi AWD-12.927@105.47MPH

>Todd - One thing that I noticed with the Nitto's is that
>they will slow the car down at the top end of the track.

Sam, I noticed that too

>It's almost too much traction with the 225/50-16s. I
>switched to 225/50-15s and the BFG drag radials on 15x7.5
>Kosei K1 Racing wheels.

I'm not sure if it's too much, seemed good to me and I didn't bog it. I can get a drag radial about the same size (or just slightly smaller than) the stock 195/70R14 tires then I might be all set. More power would help too, heh heh.

>I'm launching at about 5200RPMs and slipping the clutch
>aggressively. I was able to pull a 2.191 60' time and get
>the 1/8th mile time down to 9.987 at 69.75MPH.

That's a better 60' than I got with the nittos on. But, I'm getting 2 mph faster trap speeds inthe 1/8th than you are with my stock tires, don't ask me why, I don't know.

Have you tried the 14 inch rims with stock tires recently?

>Since these tires are about 1" shorter than stock, you can
>either run out 1st-3rd, or you can short shift 1st a little
>but you'll have to throw it into 4th just after the 1000'
>mark.

Right now I'm getting very close to the rev limiter in 3rd gear running 15.4s to 15.5s. I think leaving it in gear as long as possible is a bit better, as I'd rather not shift if I don't have to.

>Right now, I just think both of our cars are lacking a
>little top end power to really get the times down.

That's why I can't wait for the next mod! Although my top end does feel pretty good in 3rd gear as long as I've got the 14 inch rims on the car.

>(BTW...congrats on the 15.4)

Thanks Sam, I've got to try and keep things interesting for everyone, right?

The front air dam has a lot to
>do with that in my opinion. I actually think a 95-96 front
>end would be faster.

I disagree. I'm getting to about 90 mph or so. At that speed aerodynamics does make a difference, but not that much (another 30 mph and it would be even more of a factor, as air resistance increases with either the square or cube of the speed you are travelling, don't remember exactly, I've got to look up that equation) From what I have been able to find out, a 95-96 bumper gives our cars a 0.28 drag coefficient, the 97-99 a 0.29 cD. That is not enough of a difference from one tot he other to matter at 90 mph (especially since both of those coefficients are already so good).

Now, if we were comparing 0.28 to 0.38, that would be a different story.

I think you might be noticing some more "drag" at the top of 3rd due to the tires. You'll notice the effect from heavier tires far more in higher gears than in lower gears. (due to less actual torque getting to the ground in higher gears, you are trading power to the ground for vehicle speed)

The bigger tires seemed to make a big difference for me once I hit 3rd gear. The 1/8th mile on my nitto drag radial run was 9.998 which should have been a 15.5X sec run easily with the stock tires (I am in 3rd gear for maybe a second onceI hit the 1/8th mile, so the 1/8th is almost all 1st and 2nd gear), but the 1/4 mile was 15.67, so the car certainly had a harder time once it hit 3rd.

And it just felt like the car was having a hard time pulling once in 3rd. Sometimes you know what is going on with your car just by the way it feels.

>My race season is over for this year. Next year, I'll have
>a pair of slicks and a pair of drag radials. I'm hoping to
>get the motor rebuilt this winter with 11.5:1 compression on
>top of the rest of the mods.

Well then, I'd better get moving! Good luck with the rebuild Sam.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

I thought about using 14" wheels and drag radials or slicks, but I upgraded the front brakes to the GSX rotors and the 15" Kosei's were the smallest diameter wheel I could fit around the calipers.

Keep up the good work Todd. It looks like I'm going to have to make a significant increase in HP to overcome the weight I'm carrying in the GS. I'm still shooting for 210+whp with the 2.0L displacement. Then I might think about going up to the 2.2L stroker. I just know I'm not going to be able to do it right away due to the need of a tranny rebuild and clutch.

97 Eclipse GS-15.463@88.57MPH - RIP
92 Talon TSi AWD-12.927@105.47MPH

That's why I'm sticking with the single piston calipers, so I an keep using the 14" rims.

I weighed in my car at 2730lbs. on sunday (without me in it) so that's not too light (well it is for a DSM)

I'd be happy to get 210 CRANK hp. I'll keep trying to get those times down, but that will have to wait until April (unfortunately).

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

Good info, which is why I want to go with a 225/45R-14 or a 225/50R-14 drag radial for strip runs. But first exhaust, I need to make the cams happy

Una salus victus.
He will triumph, who knows when to fight, and when not to fight. - Sun Tzu

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, P&P Intake Manifold, Crower Stage 2 Cams, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines, AFX 55mm TB (re-installed once exhaust is done, intake was outflowing exhaust)

Firefly:
Mal: You don't know me, son, so let me put this to you plainly: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me. And you'll be armed.

My car weighs 3065lbs with me and a 1/4 tank of gas. I'm 170 and 4 gallons of fuel weighs 32lbs. So my car alone still weighs in at a hefty 2863lbs. If I could trim off the other 100+lbs, I'm sure I'd be right with you in terms of ET.

I still have my original rotors and calipers, but I love the stopping power of the bigger brakes. I don't think I'm going to be going back to the originals.

April seems like a long way off, but it will get here faster than you can imagine. 210 crank HP isn't really difficult once you get into the cylinder head and get the right cam profile. Compression will obviously be a factor in what cam you're going to use.

Michael_RS - Don't go with the 225/45 drag radial. The sidewall is way too short and too stiff. A local here in Seattle has that setup on his Celica and he either bogged terribly or spun the crap out of them. There's no give in that short of a sidewall. You might as well just run street tires at that point. And adjusting air pressure never helped. I had the Nitto 225/50-16s and now the 225/50-15 BFGs and the BFGs are definately better. I think my 2.19 60' time says enough. And I never got wheel spin. I think a low 2.1x 60' is possible.

Add some sort of LSD (Quaife or Phantom Grip) and I'm sure that sub 2.0 60' times are for the taking.

97 Eclipse GS-15.463@88.57MPH - RIP
92 Talon TSi AWD-12.927@105.47MPH

I was originally planning on a set of Kuhmo Drag radials in 225/50R-14, but saw a set of BF Goodrich in the 45 series...
You make a good point about the sidewalls, back to the 225/50R-14 plans I go. Then put some dinky rubber on my stock rims for the rear, so many tires at that point.

I really need to find my restriction. She doesn't want to get past that 15.9 I'm pretty sure it's exhaust, I wish I got a run with the stock TB back on. Curious what the effects would have been, less airflow in, but better balance of air in/out.

Una salus victus.
He will triumph, who knows when to fight, and when not to fight. - Sun Tzu

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, P&P Intake Manifold, Crower Stage 2 Cams, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines, AFX 55mm TB (re-installed once exhaust is done, intake was outflowing exhaust)

Firefly:
Mal: You don't know me, son, so let me put this to you plainly: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me. And you'll be armed.

My car weighs 2630 with 1/4 tank of gas... as it sits right now... If only I had your guys' mods.

Adam

1990 Eclipse GS-T

It's a good thing that I said something then. Kumho's aren't drag radials. Those are DOT road race/auto-x tires. Sidewalls twice as stiff as normal street tires. You would have loved driving to and from the drag strip, but on it would have sucked.

If you have a stock exhaust on your car, then that is most definitely the restriction. The best ET gain I made was when I put the 2.5" high flow cat and 2.5" exhaust on the car. I went from 16.3s down to my first ever 15 second pass. Little tweaks and a couple more mods have gotten me down to the 15.6s.

98Talon - I wish I had your chassis. 2600lbs and I'd already be in the 14s. But that's going to be one of my projects for this winter. Weight reduction.

97 Eclipse GS-15.463@88.57MPH - RIP
92 Talon TSi AWD-12.927@105.47MPH

Hmm... I could swear I read a description of them being drag radials, I just checked at Tire Rack and it wasn't them.

The BFGoodrich G-Force T/A Drag Radial was the 225/45R-14 I was looking at. What are your thoughts on that, side wall height etc... The only other options I seem to find are slicks.

Una salus victus.
He will triumph, who knows when to fight, and when not to fight. - Sun Tzu

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, P&P Intake Manifold, Crower Stage 2 Cams, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines, AFX 55mm TB (re-installed once exhaust is done, intake was outflowing exhaust)

Firefly:
Mal: You don't know me, son, so let me put this to you plainly: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me. And you'll be armed.

225/45-14s. Comes out to a 21.97" rolling diameter. Stock is 24.88". Your gearing is going to be drastically changed. First gear might not even last you until 60'. It'll be quicker than hell. I would also make sure that you have a maximum of -0.5 degrees of camber in the front. That will ensure full contact patch at the hit of the throttle.

I still think that the 45 series sidewall is too short. Not enough room for the sidewall and contact patch to work together and create good grip. If possible, go with a 225/55-14. The rolling diameter is going to be 23.74". It'll still be way quicker than because of the change in effective gearing and the fact that this tire size is going to be lighter than stock.

The 215/60-14 would be "my" preferred choice if going with a 14" setup. Taller sidewall, ability to run lower air pressure and create a larger contact patch. The slightly narrower tread width should help in top end speed as well. Less rolling resistance.

Just so you know, I'm going to be getting a set of M&H Dragmasters for slicks. They are going to be in the 8.5/24.5-15 size. Just slightly shorter than stock tires, good sidewall size and sticky icky icky. But I'll still have a set of drag radials for street legal days.

97 Eclipse GS-15.463@88.57MPH - RIP
92 Talon TSi AWD-12.927@105.47MPH

FWIW, I put 225/45-24 bfg dr's (brand new) on my car and pulled 2 2.1 60' times on a slippery, cold (40's) track 2 weeks ago (18 psi in the tires). Both were with the tires spinning as well, so imagine what a nice hot track would do. I'm well into 4th by the time I cross the line, but I'm also reasonably sure I can get sub 2.0 60' times with these. The grip is outstanding.

Greg

'19 Genesis G70 3.3t AWD
'88 Chrysler Conquest TSI

for people not doing turbo i work ata tire store and play with this stuff everyday id say go a little skinnyr then 225 u wont be needing all that rubber upfron a 195 or 205 should be plenty because of the weight, if u want more traction in the start run lower air pressure more topend more air pressure since u got 225's run 32psi or maybe more in them for the topend make sure u got them on light wheels

and for anyone looking for weight reduction i have some products u may like my manufacturer saved 800lbs on his car talon tsi u could to
Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.