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Top 2GNT Technical Turbo/Nitrous Tech topic #105245
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Subject: "RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one" Previous topic | Next topic
Matt_95tgsOct-14-02 02:56 PM
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#105261, "RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one"
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I like your 2 stage idea too, but realistically, it is only most beneficial to people with a stage 2 turbo setup. This is because 6 psi is nearing your max boost of 8-10 psi. You will feel a noticable difference between 6 psi at 30 deg of advance and 6 psi with 15 deg of advance. The thing is though, the people who really need a setup like this will already have forged internals and the proper modifications to support 15+ psi. When daily driving with a car that can run 15 psi, you will most likely be seeing 10 or so psi in closed loop mode at an average acceleration. At 10 psi, 15 deg of advance is near perfect timing from what I've gathered on 8.6:1 pistons. My point is that when you are running that much boost, are you really going to care about your combustion efficiency at 6 psi?? When you are running the car hard, you will only be in that range for less than a second, and when you are just cruising around, if you want more acceleration, just move the pedal down a bit to where the fuel and air combust more efficently (8-10 psi). IMO, the J&S is the way to go for timing control, hands down. At least from everything else I've looked into (that includes standalones). Standalones are waaay sweet, but the majority of them still require you to set the timing yourself at various amounts of boost/RPM. This is more versitile than say a Crane or MSD ignition, but basically still leaves room for error because a person has to tune it. Obviously tuning on a wideband dyno will help, but once you set your timing, it wont adjust for different factors like air intake charge temp and atmospeheric pressure, etc... The J&S will control your timing electronically like a mini-ecu for timing alone. I think the idea of altering the TPS voltage when it detects boost to put the car in open loop mode is an excellent idea. On top of adding safety, it will make the boost transition much smoother.

Remember, from the factory, the car is supposed to see around 15 degrees of advance at 0 vac, not 10 psi It is also supposed to be at 30 deg of advance in low vac conditions, not 6 psi of boost. I realize, that the car is being on the safe side there, but being on the safe side is what saves you money, time and cuts (those of you who have rebuilt before know what I'm talking about) and gets you hundreds of thousands of miles on the motor. Pushing the timing to the max without detonation is definately the most efficeint means of gaining hp and torque, but its risky. Personally, I would rather pull timing a bit more for added safety and add a few pounds of boost to make up for the difference of power.

Matt
1995 Eclipse GS
2.0L, S16g Turbo, 8 Injectors, 26psi

1998 Eclipse GSX
2.3L Stroker, AEM EMS Converted to Speed Density, FP3065 Turbo, 35psi , and so on...

  

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Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one [View all] , TeamXtremeRS, Oct-12-02 07:26 AM
  RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, fly1, Oct-12-02 08:48 AM, #1
RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, RxR_Eclipse, Oct-12-02 09:24 AM, #2
      RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, ez, Oct-12-02 10:11 AM, #3
           RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, TeamXtremeRS, Oct-12-02 11:12 AM, #4
                RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, Nitrous_RS1997, Oct-13-02 12:43 PM, #5
                RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, TeamXtremeRS, Oct-13-02 12:57 PM, #6
                     RE: Detonation.., Joshua97478, Oct-14-02 04:31 AM, #7
                     RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, jcurcillo, Oct-14-02 04:34 AM, #8
                          RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, jcurcillo, Oct-14-02 04:53 AM, #9
                RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, TeamMetalJim, Oct-14-02 08:20 AM, #10
RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, TeamXtremeRS, Oct-14-02 09:48 AM, #11
RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, TeamXtremeRS, Oct-14-02 10:27 AM, #12
RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, ecl98pse, Oct-14-02 11:02 AM, #14
RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, TeamXtremeRS, Oct-14-02 10:49 AM, #13
RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, Nitrous_RS1997, Oct-14-02 02:14 PM, #15
RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, Matt_95tgs, Oct-14-02 02:56 PM #16
RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, TeamMetalJim, Oct-14-02 04:29 PM, #17
      RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, TeamXtremeRS, Oct-15-02 03:35 AM, #18
           RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, BoostedGS, Oct-15-02 06:45 AM, #19
                RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, fly1, Oct-15-02 08:16 AM, #20
                RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, TeamXtremeRS, Oct-15-02 09:52 AM, #22
                RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, TeamXtremeRS, Oct-15-02 08:17 AM, #21
                     RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, Matt_95tgs, Oct-15-02 11:58 AM, #23
                     RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, fly1, Oct-15-02 01:17 PM, #24
                          RE: Detonation..Lets make this a good topic to discuss, as its a very important one, jsupetran, Oct-15-02 01:33 PM, #25
hmm.......my thoughts., Avenger EST, Oct-15-02 02:23 PM, #26
RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Matt_95tgs, Oct-15-02 03:03 PM, #27
RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Avenger EST, Oct-16-02 10:25 AM, #32
      RE: hmm.......my thoughts., TeamXtremeRS, Oct-16-02 10:39 AM, #34
RE: hmm.......my thoughts., TeamXtremeRS, Oct-15-02 05:06 PM, #28
      Good thread, TeamMuRiX, Oct-15-02 09:58 PM, #29
      RE: Good thread, TeamXtremeRS, Oct-15-02 11:40 PM, #30
           RE: Good thread, Z87RSMan, Oct-16-02 09:35 AM, #31
           RE: Good thread, TeamXtremeRS, Oct-16-02 10:30 AM, #33
           RE: Good thread, Avenger EST, Oct-16-02 11:58 AM, #38
           RE: Good thread, Avenger EST, Oct-16-02 11:35 AM, #36
      RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Avenger EST, Oct-16-02 11:00 AM, #35
           RE: hmm.......my thoughts., TeamXtremeRS, Oct-16-02 11:43 AM, #37
                RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Avenger EST, Oct-16-02 12:51 PM, #39
                     RE: hmm.......my thoughts., TeamXtremeRS, Oct-16-02 01:13 PM, #40
                          RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Avenger EST, Oct-16-02 01:42 PM, #41
                               RE: hmm.......my thoughts., JustOne, Oct-16-02 02:26 PM, #42
                               RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Nitrous_RS1997, Oct-16-02 03:03 PM, #43
                                    RE: hmm.......my thoughts., JustOne, Oct-16-02 03:11 PM, #44
                                    RE: hmm.......my thoughts., pn0ymahal, Oct-16-02 04:04 PM, #45
                                         RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Avenger EST, Oct-17-02 11:28 AM, #50
                                    RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Avenger EST, Oct-17-02 11:12 AM, #49
                               RE: hmm.......my thoughts., TeamMetalJim, Oct-16-02 05:25 PM, #46
                                    RE: hmm.......my thoughts., JustOne, Oct-17-02 06:39 AM, #47
                                         RE: hmm.......my thoughts., TeamXtremeRS, Oct-17-02 09:29 AM, #48
                                         RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Avenger EST, Oct-17-02 11:44 AM, #52
                                              RE: hmm.......my thoughts., TeamXtremeRS, Oct-17-02 12:09 PM, #53
                                                   RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Avenger EST, Oct-17-02 02:16 PM, #55
                                         RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Avenger EST, Oct-17-02 11:29 AM, #51
                                              RE: hmm.......my thoughts., TeamMetalJim, Oct-17-02 01:20 PM, #54
                                                   RE: hmm.......my thoughts., pn0ymahal, Oct-17-02 02:42 PM, #56
                                                        RE: hmm.......my thoughts., TeamMuRiX, Oct-17-02 09:26 PM, #57
                                                             RE: hmm.......my thoughts., TeamMetalJim, Oct-17-02 11:51 PM, #58
                                                                  RE: hmm.......my thoughts., Avenger EST, Oct-19-02 11:06 AM, #59

Top 2GNT Technical Turbo/Nitrous Tech topic #105245 Previous topic | Next topic
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