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Subject: "550 or 660 Injectors??"

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Hult250R	May-28-04 08:21 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2017 posts,

#10746, "550 or 660 Injectors??"
May-28-04 08:22 AM by Hult250R

Ive been shopping around for Injectors, you know if you read my post about getting them chap. But should I get 550's or 660's
Ive got a small 16G, FMIC, Walbro 255, and I just got my SAFC yesterday. What injectors should I get, I see most people have 550's Jeff, I remember you posting that I should get 660's Whats the reasoning for each size? Why should I get one over another? TIA

Also, anyone know of a write up on how to wire up the SAFC in a 1G, all the ones ive found are for 2G's

----------------------------------------

I used to have a 420A...

'92 TSi AWD

11.8 @ 119mph
470awhp 405 ft/lb torque
30psi on E85 w/ Borg Warner S256 Turbo

My DSM Registry: http://www.dsmregistry.com/166

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Replies to this topic

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, chrysler kid, May-28-04 08:22 AM, #1

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Hult250R, May-28-04 08:23 AM, #2

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, HybriDSM, May-28-04 08:26 AM, #3

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Hult250R, May-28-04 08:49 AM, #4

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, scottfreeman80, May-28-04 09:10 AM, #5

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, FlyinEsi, May-28-04 09:37 AM, #6

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Hult250R, May-28-04 10:08 AM, #7

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, HybriDSM, May-28-04 10:12 AM, #8

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Hult250R, May-28-04 10:28 AM, #9

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Module Unknown, May-28-04 11:52 AM, #10

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Hult250R, May-28-04 01:12 PM, #11

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Module Unknown, May-28-04 02:45 PM, #12

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Remy, May-28-04 06:26 PM, #13

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, BigBald, May-28-04 06:39 PM, #14

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Hult250R, May-28-04 06:59 PM, #15

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Remy, May-28-04 07:08 PM, #17

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, BigBald, May-28-04 07:09 PM, #18

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Team

Team

Jeff_99gs, May-28-04 07:08 PM, #16

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, EvMan2345, May-28-04 08:45 PM, #19

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Hult250R, May-29-04 05:24 AM, #21

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Hult250R, May-29-04 05:22 AM, #20

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, BigBald, May-29-04 06:15 AM, #22

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, scottfreeman80, May-29-04 07:17 AM, #23

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, BigBald, May-29-04 07:38 AM, #24

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, Hult250R, May-29-04 10:43 AM, #25

RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??, BigBald, May-29-04 01:41 PM, #26

chrysler kid	May-28-04 08:22 AM
Member since Sep 25th 2002 7411 posts,

#10747, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 0

660's 550's would max out before you want them too

______________________________________

11.65 @ 115

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Hult250R	May-28-04 08:23 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2017 posts,

#10748, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 1

Originally posted by chrysler kid
660's 550's would max out before you want them too

Thats kinda what I was thinking. If i ever go to a bigger turbo Ill have to upgrade injectors again. The 660's will work fine with the small 16G though?

----------------------------------------

I used to have a 420A...

'92 TSi AWD

11.8 @ 119mph
470awhp 405 ft/lb torque
30psi on E85 w/ Borg Warner S256 Turbo

My DSM Registry: http://www.dsmregistry.com/166

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HybriDSM	May-28-04 08:26 AM
Member since Aug 07th 2002 2407 posts,

#10749, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 2
May-28-04 08:28 AM by HybriDSM

Originally posted by Hult250R

Originally posted by chrysler kid 660's 550's would max out before you want them too

Thats kinda what I was thinking. If i ever go to a bigger turbo Ill have to upgrade injectors again. The 660's will work fine with the small 16G though?

With the AFC you can tune 660's down to run fine with any smaller turbo. Get the larger ones, so you don;t have to do what I did and buy other injectors to replace the older ones. In my case though, 660's were dropped for 850's. Go figure.

Also, there is a vfaq for the 1g SAFC install. Oh wait if it's an SAFCII install, then I don't know for sure if vfaq has it.

Edit: Just checked, nothing on vfaq for 1g's. Their link for the SAFCI is even down.

It's running again shitheads.

http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=791

HybriDSM@gmail.com ; HybriDSM@hotmail.com

Think for yourself. Question authority does not always mean disagree with authority.

If life were perfect, I'd be Calvin and you'd be Hobbes.

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Hult250R	May-28-04 08:49 AM
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#10750, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 3

Originally posted by HybriDSM

Originally posted by Hult250R

Originally posted by chrysler kid 660's 550's would max out before you want them too

Thats kinda what I was thinking. If i ever go to a bigger turbo Ill have to upgrade injectors again. The 660's will work fine with the small 16G though?

With the AFC you can tune 660's down to run fine with any smaller turbo. Get the larger ones, so you don;t have to do what I did and buy other injectors to replace the older ones. In my case though, 660's were dropped for 850's. Go figure. Also, there is a vfaq for the 1g SAFC install. Oh wait if it's an SAFCII install, then I don't know for sure if vfaq has it. Edit: Just checked, nothing on vfaq for 1g's. Their link for the SAFCI is even down.

Ya, I checked VFAQ and the SAFC install link is down.
Ive got the SAFC I if it matters

----------------------------------------

I used to have a 420A...

'92 TSi AWD

11.8 @ 119mph
470awhp 405 ft/lb torque
30psi on E85 w/ Borg Warner S256 Turbo

My DSM Registry: http://www.dsmregistry.com/166

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scottfreeman80	May-28-04 09:10 AM
Member since Nov 13th 2002 88 posts,

#10751, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 0

660 of course. I have the evo 16G amongst other mods and i'm glad i went with the 660's. a place on ebay sells the 660's for like $300 or so. great injectors and i've had them on my car for 3 months without a single problem. the SAFC install write up is hard to find. try this email address. lucasenglish@yahoo.com his name is lucas and he has all the write-ups stored and is basically a guru when it comes to mods or tuning. helped me immensely when i was building my car. good luck! -Scott

1995 GST
6-bolt JDM swap
Evo 16G port/polish
28x7.5x3.5 FMIC (had to cut bumper to make it fit)
686 Injectors
Walbro 255-HP
ACT 2600 Clutch
Full 3" Turbo-Back Exhaust
RamCharge MAF Translator w/ upgrade chip
RRE Front/Rear Strut Bar
Eibach Pro-Kit
NGK Plugs/Wires
Crushed 1g BOV vented to atmosphere
Apexi SAFC
Powerslot Rotors
Autometer Phantom A/F, Boost, EGT
Redline Synthetic M.T.F.
2g Manifold ported w/ ported 02 housing
K&N Custom Cold Air Intake
Apexi Turbo Timer
Joe P MBC @ 19p.s.i.

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FlyinEsi	May-28-04 09:37 AM
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#10752, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 5
May-28-04 09:38 AM by FlyinEsi

If you plan on getting a bigger turbo, I would go with 660s. I'm running 550s with my Big 16G and my turbo is going to give way before those injectors do, it's been ran before at 22psi and ran fine, so my 20psi will not overdue the injectors. I plan on a bigger turbo someday, so I would go with some 660s or 780s (? I think then next biggest size I saw)

Reverse El-Glo HVAC Panels Update: Tooling Started
Expected Release Date: June 1st

Originally posted by DR1665 bubble = teh bust3d.

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Hult250R	May-28-04 10:08 AM
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#10753, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 6

I just ordered my 660's from FIC for $288 shipped, they got em on special till June 1, so get em quick!
But I still need a writeup on how to install the SAFC in a 1G, Anyone know what color wire goes to each pin on the ECU?

----------------------------------------

I used to have a 420A...

'92 TSi AWD

11.8 @ 119mph
470awhp 405 ft/lb torque
30psi on E85 w/ Borg Warner S256 Turbo

My DSM Registry: http://www.dsmregistry.com/166

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HybriDSM	May-28-04 10:12 AM
Member since Aug 07th 2002 2407 posts,

#10754, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 7

Let me grab my let me grab my copy of the afc instuctions when I head back home this weekend. I'll see if I can track down the directions.

It's running again shitheads.

http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=791

HybriDSM@gmail.com ; HybriDSM@hotmail.com

Think for yourself. Question authority does not always mean disagree with authority.

If life were perfect, I'd be Calvin and you'd be Hobbes.

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Hult250R	May-28-04 10:28 AM
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#10755, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 8
May-28-04 10:32 AM by Hult250R

Originally posted by HybriDSM
Let me grab my let me grab my copy of the afc instuctions when I head back home this weekend. I'll see if I can track down the directions.

Ive got the afc instruction manual, It says what wires are what, I just cant figure out where they go on the ECU
heres a link to the wires of the AFC, i think its on like page 48 or 46:
http://www.apexi-usa.com/productdocumentation/electronics_safc_ins.pdf

and the ECU pins:
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ecu-harness-1G.html

I just dont know where each wire from the AFC goes to what pin on the ECU

Does this Apexi wiring look right?
http://www.apexi-usa.com/productdocumentation/electronics_safc_wire.pdf
I dont know if I can trust it... Look at page 21 of the manual
Look at diagram M1-a, is it right??

----------------------------------------

I used to have a 420A...

'92 TSi AWD

11.8 @ 119mph
470awhp 405 ft/lb torque
30psi on E85 w/ Borg Warner S256 Turbo

My DSM Registry: http://www.dsmregistry.com/166

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Module Unknown	May-28-04 11:52 AM
Donating 2GNT member 125 posts,

#10756, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 7

Originally posted by Hult250R
I just ordered my 660's from FIC for $288 shipped, they got em on special till June 1, so get em quick! But I still need a writeup on how to install the SAFC in a 1G, Anyone know what color wire goes to each pin on the ECU?

Did you have to call them to get that price? I see 650's listed for $320 on their site. Just curious since I'm about to order some 650's. I'll probably call anyway, but figured i'd ask here as well.

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Hult250R	May-28-04 01:12 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2017 posts,

#10757, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 10

Originally posted by Module Unknown

Originally posted by Hult250R I just ordered my 660's from FIC for $288 shipped, they got em on special till June 1, so get em quick! But I still need a writeup on how to install the SAFC in a 1G, Anyone know what color wire goes to each pin on the ECU?

Did you have to call them to get that price? I see 650's listed for $320 on their site. Just curious since I'm about to order some 650's. I'll probably call anyway, but figured i'd ask here as well.

Call and ask for the DSM Talk special at $288 shipped. Its not on their site anymore but it ends on June 1st

----------------------------------------

I used to have a 420A...

'92 TSi AWD

11.8 @ 119mph
470awhp 405 ft/lb torque
30psi on E85 w/ Borg Warner S256 Turbo

My DSM Registry: http://www.dsmregistry.com/166

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Module Unknown	May-28-04 02:45 PM
Donating 2GNT member 125 posts,

#10758, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 11

Thanks!

I'll have to call tomorrow and order a set.

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Remy	May-28-04 06:26 PM
Donating 2GNT member 6156 posts,

#10759, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 12
May-28-04 06:30 PM by Remy

I think 660's are over kill on a 16g. 550's can more than do the job imo and must easier to tune with the afc. I am minus 50 on the safc with my 660's and still running rich. My dsmchip cant get here soon enuff

www.cnnmotorsports.com

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BigBald	May-28-04 06:39 PM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#10760, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 13

The size injectors you get are dependent on a few things. 550s are good for up to 21 psi on any turbo w/ 93 octane. YOu can actually run 550s up to 26psi on 93 octane and AFPR. 550s are more then enough injectors to do the job if you have available fuel resources. Now if you only have up to 91 octane then you should go with 660cc beyond 19psi. People think the size of the turbo matters when it doesn't, it is the amount of boost that matters.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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Hult250R	May-28-04 06:59 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2017 posts,

#10761, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 14

Originally posted by BigBald
The size injectors you get are dependent on a few things. 550s are good for up to 21 psi on any turbo w/ 93 octane. YOu can actually run 550s up to 26psi on 93 octane and AFPR. 550s are more then enough injectors to do the job if you have available fuel resources. Now if you only have up to 91 octane then you should go with 660cc beyond 19psi. People think the size of the turbo matters when it doesn't, it is the amount of boost that matters.

So i can run like 25 psi with the 660's then?

----------------------------------------

I used to have a 420A...

'92 TSi AWD

11.8 @ 119mph
470awhp 405 ft/lb torque
30psi on E85 w/ Borg Warner S256 Turbo

My DSM Registry: http://www.dsmregistry.com/166

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Remy	May-28-04 07:08 PM
Donating 2GNT member 6156 posts,

#10762, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 15

Originally posted by Hult250R

Originally posted by BigBald

So i can run like 25 psi with the 660's then?

sure with 110 octane.

www.cnnmotorsports.com

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BigBald	May-28-04 07:09 PM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#10763, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 15

what do you have for fuel?

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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Jeff_99gs	May-28-04 07:08 PM
Donating 2GNT member 5473 posts,

#10764, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 14

BigBald isn't allowed to post anymore in the 1g section

Dude, your info is wrong. 21psi on ANY turbo with 550s? No way.

26psi on 93 octane? With 550s? No way in hell. Maybe a few times, but certainly not every day reliably. That is asking for HUGE problems.

Where are you getting this info? More Wiseman advice from Tooners?

660's are cheap, they supply plenty of fuel for 25psi on a Big16G, and are EASY as HELL to tune with the SAFC. Any moron can tune a car on 660's on any turbo. And the best part is you avoid having to upgrade your injectors more than once.

I am running a rewired 255 Walbro with 650 disc injectors and stock FPR. I am almost zeroing out my AFC settings to get even .93 o2 readings with the Green. (Not that you should be using o2's to tune anyway). 550's would have cut out years ago.

I know lots of cars react differently to mods, but the extra insurance of 100cc's is worth it for the same price.

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EvMan2345	May-28-04 08:45 PM
Old School 2GNTer 1888 posts,

#10765, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 16

Check this site for install in a 1G... gives ECU pins and pics http://shannon.v8eaters.com/images/boostin/New_SAFC_Instructions/AFC%20instructions.htm

Evan B
97 GS
90 GSX
Stamford CT
EvMan2345@aol.com

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Hult250R	May-29-04 05:24 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2017 posts,

#10766, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 19

Originally posted by EvMan2345
Check this site for install in a 1G... gives ECU pins and pics http://shannon.v8eaters.com/images/boostin/New_SAFC_Instructions/AFC%20instructions.htm Evan B 97 GS 90 GSX Stamford CT EvMan2345@aol.com

Kick ass
thats Exactly what I need!

----------------------------------------

I used to have a 420A...

'92 TSi AWD

11.8 @ 119mph
470awhp 405 ft/lb torque
30psi on E85 w/ Borg Warner S256 Turbo

My DSM Registry: http://www.dsmregistry.com/166

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Hult250R	May-29-04 05:22 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2017 posts,

#10767, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 16

Originally posted by Jeff_99gs
BigBald isn't allowed to post anymore in the 1g section

Dude, your info is wrong. 21psi on ANY turbo with 550s? No way. 26psi on 93 octane? With 550s? No way in hell. Maybe a few times, but certainly not every day reliably. That is asking for HUGE problems. Where are you getting this info? More Wiseman advice from Tooners?

660's are cheap, they supply plenty of fuel for 25psi on a Big16G, and are EASY as HELL to tune with the SAFC. Any moron can tune a car on 660's on any turbo. And the best part is you avoid having to upgrade your injectors more than once. I am running a rewired 255 Walbro with 650 disc injectors and stock FPR. I am almost zeroing out my AFC settings to get even .93 o2 readings with the Green. (Not that you should be using o2's to tune anyway). 550's would have cut out years ago. I know lots of cars react differently to mods, but the extra insurance of 100cc's is worth it for the same price.

Cool, Jeff thats what I wanted to hear.

I ordered my 660's already and I installed my SAFC yesterday, although im having problems getting it to read Karman. I gotta check my conections today.

----------------------------------------

I used to have a 420A...

'92 TSi AWD

11.8 @ 119mph
470awhp 405 ft/lb torque
30psi on E85 w/ Borg Warner S256 Turbo

My DSM Registry: http://www.dsmregistry.com/166

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BigBald	May-29-04 06:15 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#10768, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 16

Originally posted by Jeff_99gs
BigBald isn't allowed to post anymore in the 1g section

Dude, your info is wrong. 21psi on ANY turbo with 550s? No way. 26psi on 93 octane? With 550s? No way in hell. Maybe a few times, but certainly not every day reliably. That is asking for HUGE problems. Where are you getting this info? More Wiseman advice from Tooners?

660's are cheap, they supply plenty of fuel for 25psi on a Big16G, and are EASY as HELL to tune with the SAFC. Any moron can tune a car on 660's on any turbo. And the best part is you avoid having to upgrade your injectors more than once. I am running a rewired 255 Walbro with 650 disc injectors and stock FPR. I am almost zeroing out my AFC settings to get even .93 o2 readings with the Green. (Not that you should be using o2's to tune anyway). 550's would have cut out years ago. I know lots of cars react differently to mods, but the extra insurance of 100cc's is worth it for the same price.

Actually that is advice from the guys At RRE. They even made a chart on it.....http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclfuel.htm. I also said it depends on WHAT GAS YOU ARE USING. And yes you can run 26psi on 550s w/ an AFPR and 93 octane. IT is very possible if you are tuned properly. Most people go with 660s because there car isn't tuned all the way and they give them that flexibility. Now if he doesn't have 93 octane like we do in CT then yes he is better offf getting 660s like i stated.

What info did i give him that was wrong? I had this same decision a while ago and called up RRE to discussed their chart and that is basicaly what was told to me. But come on Jeff, 660s are basically the max you can go on an SAFC and not all of them flow at exactly 660. Some flow higher then what they are rated and this WILL give you tuning headaches.

And for the record, there are people running 25psi w/ AFPR and 550s on 93 octane on a 50 trim. Just cause you don't agree doesn't mean it is not possible and no he says he is not maxing them out.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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scottfreeman80	May-29-04 07:17 AM
Member since Nov 13th 2002 88 posts,

#10769, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 22

big bald is killing me here. The chart is something to look at...THAT'S IT! I would never risk running that lean with 550's. You might be able to tune it properly but your timing would be set so far back that the extra boost would be totally worthless. just my 2cents but i guess i've never worked on these cars before.

1995 GST
6-bolt JDM swap
Evo 16G port/polish
28x7.5x3.5 FMIC (had to cut bumper to make it fit)
686 Injectors
Walbro 255-HP
ACT 2600 Clutch
Full 3" Turbo-Back Exhaust
RamCharge MAF Translator w/ upgrade chip
RRE Front/Rear Strut Bar
Eibach Pro-Kit
NGK Plugs/Wires
Crushed 1g BOV vented to atmosphere
Apexi SAFC
Powerslot Rotors
Autometer Phantom A/F, Boost, EGT
Redline Synthetic M.T.F.
2g Manifold ported w/ ported 02 housing
K&N Custom Cold Air Intake
Apexi Turbo Timer
Joe P MBC @ 19p.s.i.

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BigBald	May-29-04 07:38 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#10770, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 23

Originally posted by scottfreeman80
big bald is killing me here. The chart is something to look at...THAT'S IT! I would never risk running that lean with 550's. You might be able to tune it properly but your timing would be set so far back that the extra boost would be totally worthless. just my 2cents but i guess i've never worked on these cars before.

never said you never worked on the cars but i am sure they never did either

. They have done it and i spoken to several people who are doing it and they are running fine. Do you have ACTUAL logs that say that the chart is only to be looked at? Do you have any proof that you would be running way to lean on those 550 injectors? I am running 17psi on my 450s w/ my Big 16g and i know someone who ran 18psi on their 450s and the Big 16g. From my understanding this isn't supposed to be possible at all, but yet it is being done.

If you do not agree with me that is one thing, but do not try to insult my intelligence like i don't know what i am speaking about. AS I STATED BEFORE...I actually spoke to the guys at RRE and they say with a aftermarket AFPR you can run as much as 26 psi on 550s with 93 OCTANE. Now if you do not have 93 or better gas available in your area then yes, it is recommended that you use 660s.

Please one of you offer your explaination as to why this is not possible at all....i am all ears.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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Hult250R	May-29-04 10:43 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2017 posts,

#10771, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 24

I can get 93 octane here, Whats the highest pressure I could run. I dont have an AFPR. With my small 16G and 660's, FMIC, Walbro 255 and SAFC

----------------------------------------

I used to have a 420A...

'92 TSi AWD

11.8 @ 119mph
470awhp 405 ft/lb torque
30psi on E85 w/ Borg Warner S256 Turbo

My DSM Registry: http://www.dsmregistry.com/166

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BigBald	May-29-04 01:41 PM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#10772, "RE: 550 or 660 Injectors??"
In response to Reply # 25
May-29-04 02:08 PM by BigBald

Originally posted by Hult250R
I can get 93 octane here, Whats the highest pressure I could run. I dont have an AFPR. With my small 16G and 660's, FMIC, Walbro 255 and SAFC

Assuming you have all the other basic bolt ons, You could run 20psi and go from there.

And for the non Believers:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=549991&postcount=10

On my 550's I have ran well tuned:

20G (11.34)
Frank5 (11.5)
60-1 T3/T4 (11.4)
And now SBR GT-13 (11.1)

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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