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Top 2GNT Technical Turbo/Nitrous Tech topic #101224
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Subject: "All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us" 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Previous topic | Next topic
ModeratorCorbinAug-15-07 06:03 PM
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#101224, "All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us"


          

Sometime last year, I started to hear voices in my head. "The 16G turbo is ancient technology" they said. Then it was "you are leaving power on the table with your old log manifold". It continued, "internal wastegates are for pussies", "grow some ball bearings", and so on. I couldn't take it anymore, so I decided to build a tuned, tubular, equal length, 4 into 2 runner manifold with a twin-entry Garrett GT3071 turbo and divided, external wastegate.

The only problems are I have never designed a manifold, I don't have any 3D CAD software, and I don't know how to weld. I scoured the net and text books for month and came up with enough formulas to determine runner sizes and lengths (1.682" ID primaries, 2.210" ID secondaries, and 28.9" from head to turbo). Then, I borrowed SolidWorks '05 software and learned how to use it. I created each component and positioned them to match the available space and my earlier calculations. Lastly, I watched a sanitary welder at my work for about 20 minutes and started practicing what I saw on the company TIG machine.

Now for the disclaimer:
I still don't know much about designing manifolds
I am still a C average CAD designer
I am still a C- TIG welder
Follow my example and your car will burst into flames, killing you in the process!

Let the journey begin:



I lived and breathed SolidWorks from December to February.




I designed the head flange using a spare 2GNT head I just happened to have lying around. I designed the turbo and wastegate flanges from the Christmas presents I bought myself. The flow length of the runners is equal to within 2 mm “in theory”.




I obtained a plate of 304L SS and had a shop CNC the flanges out. By the way, I had a few extra cut, so watch the For Sale forum.




After about a month of dick dancing, burning flesh, and an angry wife, I have everything tacked together for test fitting. Everything is 304L SS, 0.109” wall pipe. Note the numbers to indicate location and lines to indicate orientation.




I didn’t take pictures of it, mostly to block the horror from my mind, but I made steel dies to form every transition. With a torch and die, I was able to form the “head to primary” transition, “secondary to turbo” transition, and the collectors. Without a doubt, the eccentric taper and “D” shaped turbo inlet of the “secondary to turbo” transition was the worst. Scratch that. Making the second one mirror the first was the worst part.




These were some of my first welds. My skills were comparable to Ray Charles on Ephedra. I did back-purge with argon and inspect the interior for full penetration. I overheated the weld, didn’t clean the joint well enough, sucked at welding, etc.




The #2 & 3 collector weld shows some improvement.




That #1 & 4 collector can kiss my ass. Most of those welds are ugly. You can see the divided external wastegate mocked up though. That one came to me in a dream one night.




Now I start to realize that my welding head won’t fit in half of those crevices.




Things are starting to come together.




Yay! It’s done and I wrap the ugly welds with header wrap. Good thing, because every pipe is about a quarter inch from something important (radiator, starter, hood, coolant pipes, A/C lines, to name a few).




That little tube is the wastegate dump into the downpipe.




Ball joint braces to support along two axis and allow movement along the third.




I also made a 3” OD, 0.065” wall 304 SS downpipe with V-band inlet. The outlet tapers to a 2.5” flange for my cat (temporary).




Oh, there’s a radiator there! Better weld a flat panel into that elbow in a very critical place for flow. You’ll hardly know that 25 hp is gone.




This guy gets wrapped too. Just in time too, as I had almost healed from wrapping the manifold.




Oh, none of your intake pipes fit now. Better weld up a complete set from scratch. This time it is 2.5” OD, 0.065” wall 304 SS tubing. Did I mention the angry wife?




Downpipe scratched a hole in two perfectly good stock radiators? No matter, just buy a VW Scirocco “racing” radiator to fit where the A/C condenser was.




3 weeks later, we have this. Everything has a heat shield, because everything hot is a quarter inch away from everything that is not supposed to be hot.




So, if you move the radiator to where the condenser was, where does the condenser go? The logical answer is “right where the hood latch and center support used to be”. But the stock condenser won’t fit there. So, you get a custom A/C condenser and lines. And the aftermarket fans go between the F’ing headlights, touching the power steering cooler, which is touching the intercooler, which makes me cut my bumper even more. Good times.


Corbin

'95 ESI-T
Now with more power and fewer leaks



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

  

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Replies to this topic: Pages 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
2GeclipseRSAug-15-07 06:33 PM
Member since May 06th 2007
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#101225, "RE: All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I <3 you in a completely non-gay way.


Before i lost shop access (regained recently when i found a new shop to "loiter" in), i had been welding tig for four years. It's like driving a 5 speed. All feel. Dont beat yourself up too bad. Your welds look decent. I've seen far worse. Nice manifold. I'm sure it took 3 or 4 shitloads of work and it shows.

Goodnight sweetheart...yes its time to go...bum bum bum bum bum...good night sweetheart yes I am one little a$$hole......bum bum bum bum....

  

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97EagleTalon2nrAug-15-07 06:47 PM
Member since Oct 16th 2004
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#101227, "RE: All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us"
In response to Reply # 1




          

I read every bit of that and looked at all your pics.I dont even know what to say except good job and congratulations.I want to see some dyno sheets!

Boostin'

  

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Moderatorcs82685Aug-16-07 12:45 AM
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#101230, "RE: All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us"
In response to Reply # 2




          

Nice work, something I could never have the time/patience to bother learning to do. I especially like the story that went with it and the parts about the wife being mad


I contributed to the Wiki!
EVO IX - just a really expensive boost gauge and a K&N air filter
96 Eclipse RS -awaiting registration and inspection
95 Eclipse GS - parts car
Mods/Profile - http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=cs82685

  

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eclipse982nrRSTAug-16-07 01:49 AM
Member since Mar 16th 2004
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#101231, "RE: All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us"
In response to Reply # 3
Aug-16-07 01:52 AM by eclipse982nrRST

          

Looks great, turned out great, I love it !!! After all the time and effort, dont you just feel relieved that it turned out great.

EDIT: This is awesome. We are finally starting to get 2gnt's to hopefully making good power with custom work. Between your manifold, my manifold, quicksilver;s manifold, and that other guy (sorry I forget who it was, lol) making all these different designed manifolds, 2gnt's hopefully will get some more props and respect for what we are trying to accomplish, especially the guy who is building that 420a 'race' car.

Amen to 2gnt's

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

  

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ModeratorxcasbonxAug-16-07 02:47 AM
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#101232, "RE: All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us"
In response to Reply # 4




          

Wow Corbin, you did a damn good job for just teaching yourself I'd say. Very impressed. I'm sure the wife is happy too haha

Have you ran the car yet since everything has been installed? Just curious to see how she runs.


I contributed to the Wiki.

  

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AggressionAug-16-07 04:31 AM
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#101233, "RE: All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us"
In response to Reply # 5




          

I am at a lose of words....you are amazing man! Great job Corbin...very impressive. You inspire a lot of people on here...just in case you didn't know that.

--------------------


- 05 Subaru STi
- 97 eclipse gs (289whp w/ 276tq)

  

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corsagsboAug-16-07 04:48 AM
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#101234, "RE: All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us"
In response to Reply # 6
Aug-16-07 04:53 AM by corsagsbo

          

Corbin- as mentioned, very impressive work especially for the fact that it was self taught within the limited timeframe mentioned. You continue to be creative, that is great to see.
That thing will prove to work very nicely as you know, but for reference, Jon Shepard had a very similar design last year (only opposite flow pattern due to being on his 4g63) which was made by Shearer Fabrications. They have since released designs very similar on a production base for the 4g's- just not our cars yet.
Keep us updated on the progress, it's great to see someone else stepping back up to the plate!



--------------------------------------
Santiago
boosted 420a...(2.2l v8 eater)
02 WRX
95 T/A 383ci
03 Harley XL 92ci w/ NOS

  

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Global Ruler Of All ThingsDarkOneAug-16-07 05:09 AM
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#101235, "RE: All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us"
In response to Reply # 7




          

Corbin,

I hate you.

That is all.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

  

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freelancefoolAug-16-07 05:25 AM
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#101236, "RE: All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us"
In response to Reply # 8




          

*thinks about the mig welder in the garage*

I wish I knew how to weld.

My Blog

  

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totaleclipse_05Aug-16-07 06:52 AM
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#101237, "RE: All Your Manifold Are Belong To Us"
In response to Reply # 9


          

Wow that looks amazing, awesome work!

Mike D
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by DR1665
You're welcome to all the beer you can drink, but you have to go get it yourself. Don't get pissy when we point to the fridge and tell you to get it yourself.

  

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