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Top 2GNT Technical Turbo/Nitrous Tech topic #11260
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1995GSNov-27-01 02:58 PM
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#11260, "boost controler?"




          

Im new to the turbo scene and had a question. I plan on getting a stage 1 turbo from HRC. I was looking at www.machv.com and saw the boost controlers. What would i need one for?

1 more quick question, what new guages would i need to make sure the temp/pressure/wahtever is safe. Or do i even need that with such a small turbo?


It will be on a 1995 GS Automatic



THX!

-Brian

  

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96vengerNov-27-01 03:10 PM
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#11261, "RE: boost controler?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

You wont need one with a stage I. Your wastegate will be set at 4 or 5 PSI and you don't want to go over that without an intercooler.(stage II)

Mark Dollar
Stage 3-4 Turbo
See my White Avenger @
WWW.Armond30.com

  

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1995GSNov-27-01 03:20 PM
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#11262, "RE: boost controler?"
In response to Reply # 1




          

Im gonna sound like a tard, but what dos a BOV do and will i need one?


Dont worry, I ordered a book explaining turbos, so only a few more days of my dumb questions.



-Brian

  

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toykillaDec-12-01 07:26 PM
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#11263, "RE: boost controler?"
In response to Reply # 1




          

your wastegate is set at 5-7psi and will drop 2psi with intercooler so boost controller is not needed.

Robert Parkhurst
toykilla@comcast.net

  

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mitsumanDec-13-01 08:12 AM
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#11264, "RE: boost controler?"
In response to Reply # 3




          

well the blow of valve (bov) basically jes releases pressure when you let let off the gas. im not a turbo know it all, so i cant really put it in better terms. any body else wanna assist me in explaining?


"Proud to be, a 2gnt"


-mitsuman
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Wanted:
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NER kit now)
2. lots more crap

coming very soon:
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-mitsuman 95 GS 5-spd w/97-99 front end
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Global Ruler Of All ThingsDarkOneDec-13-01 08:28 AM
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#11265, "RE: boost controler?"
In response to Reply # 4




          

That's it exactly.. it vents pressure when the throttle plate closes so that it does not induce damaging compressor backspin.

______________________________
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'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
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TeamMuRiXDec-14-01 04:32 AM
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#11266, "RE: boost controler?"
In response to Reply # 5


          

The BOV is placed in between the turbo and throttle body. When you lay into the gas, it opens the butterfly plate in the throttle body and allows all the forced air into the engine. When you let off the gas, this plate slams shut, but the turbo is still spinning and pushing compressed air. This air has nowhere to go but back into the turbo which can cause turbulence and for the turbo to reverse spin which can be bad for long term life. The bov is usually a spring and and plate connected to a vacuum line (there are a few variations on the way it works) that recognizes no pressure in the manifold and uses vacuum to open the valve to allow any air in between the turbo and intake to escape. Factory turbo cars push this air back into the intake as they use metered air that can cause stuttering if it is not there. Since we have a map sensor, we just vent to the atmosphere and make cool rice noises. The problems normally are worse at high boost levels. Anything 5psi and below is not going to have major problems.

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

  

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ModeratorCorbinDec-13-01 01:36 PM
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#11267, "RE: boost controler?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

>1 more quick question, what new guages would i need to make
>sure the temp/pressure/wahtever is safe. Or do i even need
>that with such a small turbo?
>
>
>It will be on a 1995 GS Automatic

If you want gauges, I would suggest an EGT and tranny temp guage. I like my Autometer Phantoms.
EGT: 5765&5244
Tranny: 5757

A tranny fluid cooler might be cool too. I put mine in the drivers side scoop. As a side note...the HRC 16G is pretty big. I've had to wipe the drool off of it from several GS-T and TSI owners.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...


Corbin
'97 GSX dressed like a '95 ESi

  

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HadesOmegaDec-13-01 07:07 PM
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#11268, "RE: boost controler?"
In response to Reply # 7


          

tranny cooler? Do manuals need one?

What is thing about pressure drop with intercoolers? I'm still on the stage 1 wastegate and I get 7 psi sometimes thanx to the denser air the intercooler is cramming into the manifold. 5 psi most of the time. Would it be good for me to get a manual boost controller? I heard it'll make your system run better.


http://www.hadesomega.info -car specz and movies 95 Eclipse RS | 76' 280Z | 89' MR2 | 99 Neon | 91 Zephyr
Who sez FF can't drift?

  

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TeamMuRiXDec-14-01 04:38 AM
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#11269, "RE: boost controler?"
In response to Reply # 8


          

A tranny cooler is only necessary for an auto. They are more comlicated and can heat up under heavy use.

I am going to be lazy and quote the grand national site on pressure drop as it is very well written. I hate to repeat things that are better said than I can. Go to http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html for more info on intercoolers.

Pressure Drop
Another aspect of intercoolers to be considered is pressure drop. The pressure read by a boost gauge is the pressure in the intake manifold. It is not the same as the pressure that the turbocharger itself puts out. To get a fluid, such as air, to flow there must be a difference in pressure from one end to the other. Consider a straw that is sitting on the table. It doesn't having anything moving through it until you pick it up, stick it in your mouth, and change the pressure at one end (either by blowing or sucking). In the same way the turbo outlet pressure is higher than the intake manifold pressure, and will always be higher than the intake pressure, because there must be a pressure difference for the air to move.

The difference in pressure required for a given amount of air to move from turbo to intake manifold is an indication of the hydraulic restriction of the intercooler, the up pipe, and the throttle body. Let's say you are trying to move 255 gram/sec of air through a stock intercooler, up pipe, and throttle body and there is a 4 psi difference that is pushing it along (I'm just making up numbers here). If your boost gauge reads 15 psi, that means the turbo is actually putting up 19 psi. Now you buy a PT-70 and slap on some Champion heads. Now you are moving 450 gm/sec of air. At 15 psi boost in the intake manifold the turbo now has to put up 23 psi, because the pressure drop required to get the higher air flow is now 8 psi instead of the 4 that we had before. More flow with the same equipment means higher pressure drop. So we put on a new front mount intercooler. It has a lower pressure drop, pressure drop is now 4 psi, so the turbo is putting up 19 psi again. Now we add the 65 mm throttle body and the pressure drop is now 3 psi. Then we add the 2.5" up pipe, and it drops to 2.5 psi. Now to make 15 psi boost the turbo only has to put up 17.5 psi. The difference in turbo outlet temperature between 23 psi and 17.5 psi is about 40 deg (assuming a constant efficiency)! So you can see how just by reducing the pressure drop we can lower the temperatures while still running the same amount of boost.

I have seen some misunderstandings regarding intercooler pressure drop and how it relates to heat transfer. For example, one vendor's catalog implies that if you had little or no pressure drop then you would have no heat transfer. This is incorrect. Pressure drop and heat transfer are relatively independent, you can have good heat transfer in an intercooler that has a small pressure drop if it is designed correctly. It is easier to have good heat transfer when there is a larger pressure drop because the fluid's turbulence helps the heat transfer coefficient (U), but I have seen industrial coolers that are designed to have less than 0.2 psi of drop while flowing a heck of a lot more air, so it is certainly feasible.

Pressure drop is important because the higher the turbo discharge pressure is the higher the temperature of the turbo air. When we drop the turbo discharge pressure we also drop the temperature of the air coming out of the turbo. When we do that we also drop the intercooler outlet temperature, although not as much, but hey, every little bit helps. This lower pressure drop is part of the benefit offered by new, bigger front mount intercoolers; by the Duttweiler neck modification to stock location intercoolers; by bigger up pipes; and by bigger throttle bodies. You can also make the turbo work less hard by improving the inlet side to it. K&N air filters, free flowing MAF pipes, removing a screen from the MAF, removing the MAF itself when switching to an aftermarket fuel injection system, the upcoming 3" and 3.5" MAFs from Modern Muscle, these all reduce the pressure drop in the turbo inlet system which makes the compressor work less to produce the same boost which will reduce the turbo discharge temperature (among other, and probably greater, benefits).


05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

  

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pn0ymahalDec-15-01 04:31 AM
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#11270, "RE: boost controler? tranny cooler more?"
In response to Reply # 9




          

hey guys, who makes tranny coolers and how much do they cost around? also is it hard to install a tranny cooler? i have a 99gs eclipse with a hrc stage 2 turbo and of course i dont have money to get a new tranny so might as well be safe then sorry! do you guys have any pixs i can see of where and how it is hooked up so it gives me a idea how it all looks and fits?
thanks
michael 99gs-hrc stage 2

Michael
99gs hrc stage 5000 SOLD...
2004 Honda Accord V6 (240 hp)stock
what other car should i buy?? hmmm
Car info & pictures at http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/520269

  

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