Well originally I was going to use a 034 to do my secondary injector controlling, but lately I’ve been working with MS on another car and I think I would like to try and adapt it to working with just my secondary injectors on my car. Has anyone done this? I'm not quite sure how it would work, but I know it would be far better than using the 034 controller. I will be using MS1 with the V.3 board running MS-extra (MSnS-E )
Also, I'm thinking about mounting my GM ATS (air temp sensor) in my intercooler piping and I’m now sure about he CTS (coolant Temp. sensor). Where have you guys been mounting this one.
Eventually I would like to control my spark with this device and then maybe the primaries, but I would like to start easy and work to a more advanced setup.
So please provide me with any input possible.
Ryan Siefring Located near Dayton OH, zip 45356 Student at the University of Dayton.
#1900, "RE: Using MS for 8-Injector setup." In response to Reply # 0
I put my air sensor on the back of the manifold in place of the vacuum fitting. I tapped my egr hole in the back the manifold to use for my vacuum. My coolant sensor is in the bottom left side of my thermostat housing, close to the timing belt.
#1902, "RE: Using MS for 8-Injector setup." In response to Reply # 0
The whole point of the MS is so that it runs 4 injectors. If you are going through the trouble of adding extra temp. sensors then you might as well have a 4 injector setup.
There are ways of having your cake and eating it too, aka staying smog legal and still having a full standalone.
If you really want to keep the 8 injector setup, it is possible to have the MS only start working in boost... If I had to take a guess how this would be done I would start by entering 0 for the VE cells under 100 kPa.
#1903, "RE: Using MS for 8-Injector setup." In response to Reply # 2
Originally posted by ner947 The whole point of the MS is so that it runs 4 injectors. If you are going through the trouble of adding extra temp. sensors then you might as well have a 4 injector setup. There are ways of having your cake and eating it too, aka staying smog legal and still having a full standalone. If you really want to keep the 8 injector setup, it is possible to have the MS only start working in boost... If I had to take a guess how this would be done I would start by entering 0 for the VE cells under 100 kPa.
Right, i guess you could do it that way too. I understand that i am being silly just using MS to contorl just my secondaries, but i would like that peace of mind to start out with, i dont' think installing four new sensors (wideban 02, EGT, air, CTS) is that big of a deal. I can get them all pretty cheap and at the same time use megatune to extract all that data inorder to datalog my car at the same time. I won't even need to get a Wide band 02 sensor setup like the Zitronix or whatever.
I think i would like to start out easy with just the second injectors, and then work my way up to a full standalone system.
Ryan Siefring Located near Dayton OH, zip 45356 Student at the University of Dayton.
#1904, "RE: Using MS for 8-Injector setup." In response to Reply # 0
I just got done wiring everything in for my ms and it is not bad. I also didn't have to tap anything. I used 2 tees and moved the stock ats around alittle. I am just waiting on some injectors and will be ready to go. I think you should just buy a set of bigger injectors and go from there. There are people on this board using bigger then 680 injectors that get a good idle and pretty good gas mialage from what I hear. It just seems to be a waste to me to just use ms for supplemental injectors. The only reason you would need 4 more injectors would be if you are running alot of boost. That being said you would need to adjust timing aswell. What are you planning to do about that? The ms can do both with only one set of injectors and give you the same amount of fuel control. Just my 2 cents sam
#1905, "RE: Using MS for 8-Injector setup." In response to Reply # 4
Start reading msefi.com. the MS has been used as an 8 injector controller. you cannot put "0" in the ve bins, MS software does not understand "0". you have to put "1" in the bins to make it work. If you are going to control extra injectors then your plans of runnign spark are pretty retarded and half assed. You want spark then do it right and run the primaries and if you choose to run a staged injection setup.
#1908, "RE: Using MS for 8-Injector setup." In response to Reply # 4
Originally posted by selmerguy2003 There are people on this board using bigger then 680 injectors that get a good idle and pretty good gas mialage from what I hear.
I've got 780's, and I am still able to get around 30-32 MPG if I really push it. Although, I had to lower my static pressure to around 35 PSI in order to get a good idle pulsewidth range to work with... I think mine is around 2.5ms or so. If you are idling in the 1.2-1.3ms ballpark with huge injectors at a normal static pressure of 43.5 PSI, you will have a hard time tuning idle because the resolution of the MS1 processor (which is the one everyone uses and runs the "extra" code) is only 0.1ms. The percentage difference between 1.2ms and 1.3ms is insane, almost 10%.
The only real disadvantage in lowering your static pressure is that reduces the maximum amount power you can produce. I’ve never seen my 780’s go much above 70% duty cycle around 20 PSI of boost pressure with the S16G, which is close to the practical limit of that turbo. Yes, if I bought slightly smaller injectors like somewhere between 625’s and 680’s. I probably wouldn’t have had to change the static pressure. Ideally the maximum duty cycle should be just shy of 90%.
#1909, "RE: Using MS for 8-Injector setup." In response to Reply # 6
I understand your points about how I’m not really taking advantage of the MS setup. However, I've already made the investment for all the machining of my intake manifold and new fuel rails. I also have the secondary injectors. And all the AN fittings and whatnot, Basically everything besides a controller.
I think it would be nice to have the stock computer still control the primaries as I learn to use the MS system. The car is the only one I have, I ride my motorcycle normally, but I still need the car in bad weather, so I wouldn't want to just head first into this without a back up plan. I was just thinking it would be pretty easy to start out using an 8injector setup and then switch later on.
I don't pan on ever turning up the boost past 18 or 20 psi so i dont' think i be seeing that 800 hp anytime soon. I would be happy with just 280wph with the finished car. I've just been doing all this not for the power, but instead to learn, so one day i can build something even more amazing.
Ryan Siefring Located near Dayton OH, zip 45356 Student at the University of Dayton.
