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Subject: "Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"

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gilee_8	Aug-21-06 02:53 PM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2442, "Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"

Sup guys.. I was reading all over the forum and I found this page:
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=54&topic_id=738
Which is the only one that contain the spark table. (came from Nate) But from what what Matt said below, seems like Matt has a different table.

Is it possible Matt that you send me your most up to date Spark table? or Nate? or anyone is fine.

Coz I am currently using what Nate posted on the above link, and I cannot get my car to drive right. whenever I go to like 2500-3000RPM at 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear, the car seems to choke and won't accelerate. and I have to shift up to lower the RPM so the car will move again.

(of course if I switch back to use the stock ECU to control the ignition, everything is fine)

Thanks guys!
Gilbert

~~~~~~~~Modification~~~~~~~~
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Corbin	Aug-22-06 02:58 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2552 posts,

#2443, "RE: Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"
In response to Reply # 0
Aug-22-06 03:02 AM by Corbin

I have the exact same problem. I am using two internal VB921 transistors to drive the stock coil (I think you are too). No matter what I do, I can not get the car to run right with any spark table. It will idle smoothly and I can get up to about 2500 RPM. After that, it just breaks apart. I have a connector that allows me to switch in between MS spark and stock ECU spark. I switch back to stock and the car runs perfectly. Today, I am going to get one of those 4G63 power transistors and see if that works. I'll post if I get it figured out.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
Now with more power and fewer leaks

Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

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WickedESi	Aug-22-06 07:23 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3090 posts,

#2444, "RE: Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"
In response to Reply # 1
Aug-22-06 07:24 AM by WickedESi

Heh, so is anyone running spark successfully? I'm attempting my first MSnS tune (v3 29q2) when I get off work today. This post isn't too reasuring.

Joel Baldridge, ASE Certified Master Technician, Audi Certified Expert Technician

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XtremeRS	Aug-22-06 07:58 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#2446, "RE: Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"
In response to Reply # 2
Aug-22-06 08:03 AM by XtremeRS

Originally posted by WickedESi
Heh, so is anyone running spark successfully? I'm attempting my first MSnS tune (v3 29q2) when I get off work today. This post isn't too reasuring.

I've been running spark for a long time now, with no issues..Corbin, on the outputs settings drop down, be SURE you only have spark outputs set for LED 17&19. If you have one option set to "spark output D" or something like that, it gets all screwed up. I'm going to post up a printscreen of my ignition timing table here shortly. Just be aware this is set up for 100 octane unleaded!!!!! Most of the timing values for UNDER 100 kpa should be fine for 93 octane pump. Take away roughly 2-3 degrees for boosted timing.

Also, if you are using an ignitor like the 4g63 one, set spark output inverted to "NO". If you are using the VB921's on a v3 board, set inverted to "YES".

If anyone needs anything else displayed here, just let me know..

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WickedESi	Aug-22-06 08:20 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3090 posts,

#2447, "RE: Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"
In response to Reply # 3

Matt, you're my hero! I can't wait to get home to try that out. (I'm gonna even be running 100 octane daily)

Corbin, (just incase you overlooked this too) also check that you set the Trigger Angle as 69 degrees and set it to Trigger Return.

Joel Baldridge, ASE Certified Master Technician, Audi Certified Expert Technician

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gilee_8	Aug-22-06 08:55 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2448, "RE: Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"
In response to Reply # 1

Originally posted by Corbin
I have the exact same problem. I am using two internal VB921 transistors to drive the stock coil (I think you are too). No matter what I do, I can not get the car to run right with any spark table. It will idle smoothly and I can get up to about 2500 RPM. After that, it just breaks apart. I have a connector that allows me to switch in between MS spark and stock ECU spark. I switch back to stock and the car runs perfectly. Today, I am going to get one of those 4G63 power transistors and see if that works. I'll post if I get it figured out. Corbin '95 ESI-T Now with more power and fewer leaks

Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Sup corbin, exactly! I am using two internal VB921 to drive the stock coil. everything is good using Nate's spark table, but onces the RPM goes higher (usually bring the Deg of ignition advance to like 26-29degree, the car starts to bug and choke...
(the reason I say 26-29) coz with Nate's spark table, that's how the degree goes to once around 2500RPM with like 60 or 80kpa.

And also, I have extra connectors, so I can switch back and forth with stock ECU or MS. and with stock ECU controlling ignition, everything is FINE!

So what's up guys?
I hope I don't have to get external ignition setup? coz I thought internal VB921 is the best way to go??? damn it!

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gilee_8	Aug-22-06 08:59 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2449, "RE: Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"
In response to Reply # 4
Aug-22-06 09:03 AM by gilee_8

Thanks Matt for the table.
Can you also tell us what you set for the DWELL control? cranking dwell/running dwell/minimum discharge??

I followed what Nate did and I used 25/5.5/0.1 so is that what you guys used?

I did the Invert, I set it to 69 degree and return trigger.
Is there anything else I can use?

BTW, can you guys use the autotune for the spark table? I cannot!
Thanks guys.

P.S. So Matt, for the table you shown above, I just minus 2-3 degree for everything above 100kPa for you table will work for 93octane gas?
Also from doing some comparison, your table looks totally different from what Nate has:

Compare to tuning fuel, I have very minimum experience with ignition, this is my first time tuning ignition. so I guess I don't have a general idea of why the degree changes dramatically from 1500RPM to 2000RPM. (10deg to 33deg)

Coz I don't think I will drive with 100octane everyday!

Thanks again!

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WickedESi	Aug-22-06 09:29 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3090 posts,

#2451, "RE: Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"
In response to Reply # 6

I'm new at MSnS, but that is a LOT of timing advance, which is probably why your car is hurting. Compare those numbers to Matt's table for 100 octane. I'd be REAL careful with that.

Joel Baldridge, ASE Certified Master Technician, Audi Certified Expert Technician

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gilee_8	Aug-22-06 10:18 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2452, "RE: Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"
In response to Reply # 7

that is what I am thinking too. I consider myself a newbie to ignition tuning.. it's my first time doing it ever!

From Nate's table, I do believe the degree in advance is alot! But I don't have a general idea of what alot is considered as ALOT!

So you saying, the higher the octane I use, the higher degree # I can use in the table?

so thats' why since I am running octane 93 instead of 100 (compare to Matt's table) so that's why I should substract 2-3 degree from his table above 100kPa?

Thanks for the heads up!

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XtremeRS	Aug-22-06 10:49 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#2454, "RE: Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"
In response to Reply # 5
Aug-22-06 11:06 AM by XtremeRS

Way before I had done the megasquirt, i had datalogged the ignition timinig advance, and my values below 100 kpa, are really close to stock timing. At cruise on the highway( roughly 30-50 kpa, and 3200 rpm), i logged in around 34-36 degrees of timing. Take note that the stock ECU is set for 87 octane, and 9.6:1 compression ratio. Most of us are running 92-93 octane, and lower compression, so that right there means we can run a few more degrees of timing in vacuum conditions. Under boost, the stock ECU puts in an automatic 14-17 degrees, which i found was the limit at 15 psi on 93 octane before detonation. I found with lower boost on 93, at 10 psi boost, a good timing range is around 21-22 degrees, and increase the timing as rpm increases, in 1-2 degree increments. There is physically less time for detonation to happen in higher rpm, so you can ramp up the timing as it gets above 5000 rpm.

The large gap in timing from the 3rd bin to the next, is because you want to keep the timing advance equal all around the idle perameters. This helps keep the idle steady and from jumping timing advance all over the place.

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ner947	Aug-22-06 12:00 PM
Donating 2GNT member 3168 posts,

#2457, "RE: Can Anyone send me their ignition table for MS?"
In response to Reply # 7
Aug-22-06 12:05 PM by ner947

Originally posted by WickedESi
but that is a LOT of timing advance

It is! It took me months of creeping up on those values to get the right ones for my setup. A well picked number in the "spoolup" area makes a huge difference, I spent most of my time between 100-200 KPA and 2000-4000 RPM's. The last time the car ran was last October, and it ran pretty smoothly. I've been a lazyass about getting the new clutch back in. The one place you gotta watch for detonation (and keep the advance somewhat low) is around peak torque which is usually somewhere between 3500 and 4500 RPM's. Everyone's engine is different, what is good for me might be too weak or advanced for someone else.

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