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Subject: "Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"

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XtremeRS	Mar-31-06 04:46 PM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#1933, "Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"

I've pretty much always had this issue, just never looked into much yet..On a hot re-start, the motor runs lean for maybe one minute, then runs fine. The wideband shows super lean during this time as well, and motor will stuble and run like crap. Over at the MS website, people are all talking about heat soak of the IAT, but the intake temps are damn near identical at the restart. Like i can shut the car off, then 10 seconds later restart it, and it will run lean until a minute, when the ego correction starts adding fuel. Anyone else have this issue? Its done this with every code version i've tried to date.

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
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ner947	Mar-31-06 05:12 PM
Donating 2GNT member 3168 posts,

#1935, "RE: Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"
In response to Reply # 0

Hot afterstart enrichment?

2016 WRX STi Limited (current)
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XtremeRS	Apr-01-06 12:32 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#1937, "RE: Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"
In response to Reply # 1

Originally posted by ner947
Hot afterstart enrichment?

Is there such a thing? Also, the ego gauge on MT shows that its adding like 10% more fuel once it goes into closed loop after the hot restart...rather than it being only +/- 5 % when going from a cold soak start to fully warm..wierd..

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selmerguy2003	Apr-01-06 03:42 AM
Member since Nov 04th 2005 288 posts,

#1938, "RE: Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"
In response to Reply # 2

I have the same problem. I had the ASE explained to me pretty good the other day on the msfi forums. If you look at a datalog while starting the ASE only kicks in for a few seconds. After that is goes into warmup. I dont think the ASE has to do with this problem. What wideband are you using? Sometimes I think my innovate comunicates to slow with my msns. Just a thought.

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XtremeRS	Apr-01-06 07:34 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#1939, "RE: Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"
In response to Reply # 3

Originally posted by selmerguy2003
I have the same problem. I had the ASE explained to me pretty good the other day on the msfi forums. If you look at a datalog while starting the ASE only kicks in for a few seconds. After that is goes into warmup. I dont think the ASE has to do with this problem. What wideband are you using? Sometimes I think my innovate comunicates to slow with my msns. Just a thought.

I'm using the AEM wideband..Its not that because the MS isnt seeing the signal from it right after warm startup, until like a minute, then the ego starts correcting by adding fuel, and the motor smoothes out...

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dougie2	Apr-01-06 08:41 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#1940, "RE: Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"
In response to Reply # 4
Apr-01-06 08:45 AM by dougie2

Why is your EGO correction adding fuel at idle? Maybe you simply have VE values that are too low.

Matt- maybe you could send me a copy of your MSQ file and I can compare it to a lot of MSQs that I have, that I KNOW work great. Maybe I can find something there.

Doug

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selmerguy2003	Apr-01-06 08:46 AM
Member since Nov 04th 2005 288 posts,

#1941, "RE: Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"
In response to Reply # 5

I have my ego helping at idle alittle too. It was the easiest way to smooth out the idle. For me on the ve table there was a big difference between 53 and 54. Im not talking about the ve table under constants but the ve table under tuning. When I changed the constance ve table to get the number to change on the tunning ve the afr at idle went from like 13.6:1 to 15:1. So I used the ego to help alittle. Thats what it is for right?

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XtremeRS	Apr-01-06 11:11 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#1943, "RE: Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"
In response to Reply # 5
Apr-01-06 11:16 AM by XtremeRS

Originally posted by dougie2
Why is your EGO correction adding fuel at idle? Maybe you simply have VE values that are too low. Matt- maybe you could send me a copy of your MSQ file and I can compare it to a lot of MSQs that I have, that I KNOW work great. Maybe I can find something there.

Well let me explain in more detail i guess. If i start it up from a cold soak, it warms up fine, and once it reaches my set temp of 160 degrees, i have ego running closed loop at idle. The stock ECU runs closed loop idle at stoich, so i should be able to do the same with the MS.. Well the problem is if i do a hot restart, it runs really lean, with lean misfires, and it runs pretty bad..(maybe 16-18.0:1 A/f) if i didnt have ego correction at idle, it would always run lean...it runs fine after the ego kicks in to richen up the mixture. This is why i kinda have to run ego closed loop at idle.

Its just strange that a cold start to fully warm, it runs great, adn my closed loop idle correction is maybe damn near perfect, at +/- 5% on the ego gauge. Even today at a car meet, i let the car sit for maybe an hour or so, so it had to go into warmup enrich, coolant gauge was just a little bit above the full cold mark. Well the same thing happened, it ran lean on the re start, and even LEAN during the warmup period, UNTIL ego correction kicked on to richen it up to normal A/F's. When this happens, the ego correction isnt at +/- 5% anymore like it is on a cold soak start, its more around 108-114%! Its almost like the baro correction is kicking in for some reason, and the entire map is much leaner(baro correction is turned OFF) All my A/F's, fully hot from a cold soak start, are PERFECT! lol i have no clue whats going on..Its done this with every code version i've tried. I'm currently using the 024s13c firmware, and it seems really good so far besides this one issue. I just dont get it.. I've searched a lot on msefi boards, and seems like many are having this issue as well..

Doug, i'll get an msq to you to see if you see anything odd...

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ner947	Apr-01-06 01:18 PM
Donating 2GNT member 3168 posts,

#1944, "RE: Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"
In response to Reply # 7
Apr-01-06 01:19 PM by ner947

Originally posted by XtremeRS
I'm currently using the 024s13c firmware

I've though about downgrading to that. The new alpha versions have been quite a bit more unstable than that one.

Unless it's only in the alpha versions, the "hot" afterstart settings are under afterstart enrichments, the table goes from -40 to +160

2016 WRX STi Limited (current)
2001 A4 1.8tqms (donated)
1991 GVR4 #1933 (sold)
old.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=218 (dismantled)

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selmerguy2003	Apr-02-06 08:29 AM
Member since Nov 04th 2005 288 posts,

#1947, "RE: Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"
In response to Reply # 8

My ase table only goes to 130. How can I change this?

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ner947	Apr-02-06 12:00 PM
Donating 2GNT member 3168 posts,

#1948, "RE: Any MS users have lean re-start issues?"
In response to Reply # 9
Apr-02-06 12:06 PM by ner947

Update to the newest alpha code. I have 029k running on the bench (car is down) with MT 756.

The other cool thing about the newer alpha releases is that they support real-time barometric correction - you need a second MAP sensor identical to the one hooked up to the manifold, though. It works on the bench but I haven't tried it on the car yet. I might end up putting a "large" (0.1-1.0 uF) capacitor across the second MAP sensor output to average the output more. It seems to fluctuate around 99-100 or 100-101 kPa very quickly at times, where as actual barometric pressure would take on the order of a minute or more to change that much depending on weather conditions, vertical speed etc... It would be nice if there was a code change to accept a different type of MAP sensor, like a 1 BAR or something which would have better accuracy and precision.

2016 WRX STi Limited (current)
2001 A4 1.8tqms (donated)
1991 GVR4 #1933 (sold)
old.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=218 (dismantled)

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