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Top 2GNT Technical Performance/Engine Manual Trans - NV-T350 topic #2736
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Subject: "Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated" 1 | 2 | Previous topic | Next topic
techboyMay-09-04 11:53 AM
Member since May 20th 2002
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#2736, "Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated"


          

I'm not sure how to explain this, but I'll do the best I can and hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction. I have a ClutchMasters Stage IV clutch. I wanted to use my stock flywheel b/c it only had 40k miles on it. So I took out the stock clutch, drilled out the rivets and tapped it to except the CM clutch and had it re-surfaced. Nothing crazy so far. The problem came this weekend when I tried to assemble it. When I tighted down the bolts the fingers (I don't know what else to call them) on the CM pressure plate depressed to the point where they were actually touching the clutch disk. I KNOW this is not right b/c the clutch is virtually engaged. The problem is I don't know why. I'm not even sure what questions to ask:
-Is the CM clutch not compatable with a stock flywheel?
-Am I doing something wrong?
-Should I NOT be tightening the pressure plate all the way? (that doesn't make sense to me)
-Am I missing some sort of spacer or something?
-Do I have the wrong clutch?

The problem def. appears to be in the pressure plate. I compared clutch disks (stock and new), they are virtually identical in size and thickness.

Sorry I don't have pics to clarify, I have a digi camera, but I don't have a web site to host.

Your help/insight is most appreciated.


1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

  

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techboyMay-10-04 03:43 AM
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#2737, "RE: Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Wow, I can see this is going to be a popular thread


1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

  

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TeamMichael_97RSMay-10-04 10:57 AM
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#2743, "RE: Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The clutch bolted together should be making contact. The clutch disengages from the trans when you step on the clutch pedal.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus

  

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TeamXtremeRSMay-10-04 03:10 PM
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#2745, "RE: Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Sounds like you have the disk in backwards..The center spline hub on the disk will stick out more on one side, than the other. The shortest side of the hub that sticks out of the disk, faces towards the Pressure plate...BE SURE you have a way to center the disk!!!! Do not fully tighten the clutch bolts down until it is perfectly centered! If its not centered, you wont be able to get your bolts from the flex plate to the clutch on, or they wont line up correctly..This is all I can think of, as to what your problem is..check it


13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)

My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

  

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techboyMay-10-04 05:42 PM
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#2747, "RE: Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated"
In response to Reply # 3


          

Well, turns out I didn't have anything backwards or anything crazy like that. I got on the horn with CM today and discovered I have the wrong clutch on my hands. It's for a 95 Eclipse with a non-modular setup, which uses a different pressure plate all together - which is why it was not assembling correctly. I bought it off PowerEclipses about a year ago, knowing I wanted to go with better clutch once I had more power, without really doing a whole lot of research about it. My goof. So now it's for sale in the FS forum:

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=16&topic_id=43189&mesg_id=43189&page=

I thought about keeping it and getting a 94/95 Neon flywheel and going with a non-modular setup, but I don't want the difficultly of dropping the tranny that comes with it. Thanks for your help anyway guys. At least I can sleep tonight knowing it wasn't me doing something wrong.

Lesson: Live and learn - sometimes the hard way.


1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

  

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AdministratorStar Turbo TalonMay-11-04 06:35 AM
Member since Oct 21st 2003
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#2750, "RE: Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated"
In response to Reply # 4




          

Wait a minute.....i have put a 95 neon flywheel next to my modualr flywheel and they are the same on the disk side. the only difference is the mounts for the flexplate. If you have a setup for a non mod eclipse you have a 4g63 clutch.

Terry
96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header/evo exhaust - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, ceramic intake, 450 Turbo injectors, SFMU/return line, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

  

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techboyMay-11-04 07:24 AM
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#2752, "RE: Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated"
In response to Reply # 5


          

The problem is with the difference in the pressure plates. You are correct the flywheels are pretty much the same, with the exception of one having starter teeth, and the other not, and the clutch disks are identicial. The pressure plate diaphram is completely different however, which is where the problem comes in.
Does that make sense?


1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

  

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TeamXtremeRSMay-11-04 06:53 PM
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#2754, "RE: Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated"
In response to Reply # 6


          

Originally posted by techboy
The problem is with the difference in the pressure plates. You are correct the flywheels are pretty much the same, with the exception of one having starter teeth, and the other not, and the clutch disks are identicial. The pressure plate diaphram is completely different however, which is where the problem comes in. Does that make sense?


AFAIK, both pressure plates from modular and non mod are the same..It should work..I don't think you got the correct PP either, but who knows..Its either a LUk, or a Sachs plate,just worked over for higher clamp loads..The only diff from Mod to non mod is the flywheel..But, there ARE visual differences between the LUK and the SAchs plates..The Luk is "thinner" than a sachs, and the PP fingers look a little different. I don't know..I guess I need to find out for sure, because I was going to go this route too..


13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)

My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

  

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techboyMay-12-04 07:45 AM
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#2759, "RE: Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated"
In response to Reply # 7
May-12-04 07:48 AM by techboy

          

Originally posted by XtremeRS AFAIK, both pressure plates from modular and non mod are the same..It should work..I don't think you got the correct PP either, but who knows..Its either a LUk, or a Sachs plate,just worked over for higher clamp loads..The only diff from Mod to non mod is the flywheel..But, there ARE visual differences between the LUK and the SAchs plates..The Luk is "thinner" than a sachs, and the PP fingers look a little different. I don't know..I guess I need to find out for sure, because I was going to go this route too..


XtremeRS .... well after a slow start this is turning into quite the interesting discussion.

I'll tell you what I know for sure, and then what the people at CM told me and hopefully that will bring some clarity.

I know it is definitely a CM clutch. It has a CM logo right on the pressure plate. And I know that the part number is 361922 1100. The number is also right on the pressure plate.

When I called CM, I gave them that part number (listed above) and the guy told me that the clutch would fit either a 94/95 Neon or a 95 Eclipse with non-modular flywheel. I asked him what the difference was, and he said the pressure plates were different thicknesses, he then elaborated and said that was why the diaphram (what I was calling the "fingers") was touching the clutch disk when I tightened it all down. He said I would either have to get a non-modular flywheel off a Neon, or get the correct clutch/pressure plate for my car.

So, I don't whose right about all this, all I know is that the clutch I have does not bolt properly onto my flywheel ... and that's a problem.

What do you think?
BTW, what does "AFAIK" stand for?

This brings me to a flywheel question - which I think I'll start a new thread for ....


1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

  

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TeamXtremeRSMay-12-04 03:36 PM
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#2763, "RE: Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated"
In response to Reply # 8
May-12-04 03:41 PM by XtremeRS

          

Originally posted by techboy
Originally posted by XtremeRS AFAIK, both pressure plates from modular and non mod are the same..It should work..I don't think you got the correct PP either, but who knows..Its either a LUk, or a Sachs plate,just worked over for higher clamp loads..The only diff from Mod to non mod is the flywheel..But, there ARE visual differences between the LUK and the SAchs plates..The Luk is "thinner" than a sachs, and the PP fingers look a little different. I don't know..I guess I need to find out for sure, because I was going to go this route too..
XtremeRS .... well after a slow start this is turning into quite the interesting discussion. I'll tell you what I know for sure, and then what the people at CM told me and hopefully that will bring some clarity. I know it is definitely a CM clutch. It has a CM logo right on the pressure plate. And I know that the part number is 361922 1100. The number is also right on the pressure plate. When I called CM, I gave them that part number (listed above) and the guy told me that the clutch would fit either a 94/95 Neon or a 95 Eclipse with non-modular flywheel. I asked him what the difference was, and he said the pressure plates were different thicknesses, he then elaborated and said that was why the diaphram (what I was calling the "fingers") was touching the clutch disk when I tightened it all down. He said I would either have to get a non-modular flywheel off a Neon, or get the correct clutch/pressure plate for my car. So, I don't whose right about all this, all I know is that the clutch I have does not bolt properly onto my flywheel ... and that's a problem. What do you think? BTW, what does "AFAIK" stand for? This brings me to a flywheel question - which I think I'll start a new thread for ....



Hmm this is very interesting indeed..I guess i'll tell you what I do know. I have personally used BOTH a Luk and a Sachs pressure plate, bolted to a stock modular flywheel. When I held a Luk next to a Sachs, the Luk was def not as thick, maybe around 1/2" or so off of the Sachs. Regardless, both plates worked on the trans, using the same flywheel, and clutch disk.(I currently use the LUK with a 4 puck cearmic disk, bolted to a mod flywheel). I was under the impression that there were only those 2 pressure plates in use for our clutches, with no other models between a modular, and non modular clutch setup, just the flywheels in use being different, one with starter teeth, and one without utilizing a flexplate. I could be wrong, as I said, this does raise an interesting theroy..and which would suck, because that means you can't purchase the "modular" CM plate separately..at least I dont think you can..money loss for them ya know. I will give the Clutch builder that I am going through a call, and see if he has any answers..He should know if there is a def difference between the plates..This is information that is known, esp form another source other than money hungry Clutchmasters Thinking about it though, it seems, acording to CM, that the thinner Luk plates, are used on non modular neon cluthes, and the Sachs plates are used on the modular clutches..which to me, doesnt make sense, because i have used both with perfect success..

Oh yeah, when you were bolting that up, how did the holes on the pressure plate, line up with the holes in the mod flywheel? Did it seem to line up perfectly, or did anything seem just "off" other than the fingers??

And AFAIK, stands for "as far as i know"


13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)

My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

  

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techboyMay-13-04 02:38 AM
Member since May 20th 2002
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#2766, "RE: Clutch Problems ... Need Help .... Frustrated"
In response to Reply # 9


          

Yeah, when I assembled, it went together great. The holes lined up perfectly. I was able to finger thread in the bolts until they started getting tight. I'd like to think that's b/c of my great tap job

"because that means you can't purchase the "modular" CM plate separately..at least I dont think you can..money loss for them ya know."

-What did you by CM plate? ... the pressure plate? Your right, I don't know of any company that sells just a pressure plate.

I guess the only true way to solve this dilemma would be to find a non-mod flywheel from a Neon or 95 Eclipse and see if the CM pressure plate I have bolts up to it properly or not. Unfortunately I don't know anyone nearby that has their car as ripped apart as I do.

"AFAIK" - thanks!


1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

  

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