As much as I would really hate to leave the 420a world, I was just wondering if it is really worth it to fully build a 420a or should i just look for a 4g63 (preferably a GSX) Now I know its comparing apples to oranges with the whole AWD issue. But I was wondering powerwise. Wondering if there were any advantages/disadvantages to building the 420a? I haven't seen any real tracktimes or dynoslips of built 420a's and i know there are alot more options out for the 4g63...any feedback helps

If you even have to ask then you dont know what you need to do.

Go 4G63.

When it comes to GST and RS/GS, they are pretty comparable. I've read up on t00ners about how the 420a is a much more modern engine design compared to the 4G63. If I was you and it was between my 420a and a GST, I would just keep my car. However, if it was a GSX, that would be more tempting haha.

Anybody have dyno numbers or 1/4 mile times, with fully built turbo 420a?

goto ebay and see what a turbo 420a is going for.

No it's not worth it unless it's just something you want to do. Money wise it's one of the dumbest thing you could waste your money on besides a 5 day coke binge. :shrug

If you don't mind thinking back and knowing you've put 10 grand into a 7K car and you can only sell it for 6K, Go for it :thumbsup Thats if you know where to stop. Some guys are looking at thier talons/eclipses that have 30G into them and fuck, they could be driving an M3 or a vette for that kind of money

No matter what you do, there will always be someone who is faster than you. Doesn't matter if you drive a GSX, M3, or 550 Maranello. There is always someone faster. This is to say that, if you're looking for a ~300hp car and really like the car you've got, you can still be happy with your built/boosted 2GNT. If you just have to buy into the I-need-a-10-second-car mindset, than you're looking at another platform, unless you don't mind dropping an easy $10k into what you've got right now.

Just that simple.

Supposedly, this guy hasn't even touched the engine yet, at the time this vid was taken. There was a thread a while back on this car if you want to search for it. I'm kind of lazy right now.

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/420A/0/983daf82-2415-49ee-9560-750da52ff4c7.htm

you can wait until mike goes to thw track and posts his times

Yea i know there would be faster out there...i was just wondering if it would be a wise decision to sink money into a 420a rather than a 4g63, obviously the 4g63 would be a better investment...but i was wondering on the results side...possibly more options for the 4g63, I'd just like to see the limits of a 420a

Originally posted by Bigtymr1021
Yea i know there would be faster out there...

Not everyone keeps this in mind, leaving them burned-out in the end. I can not stress enough, the importance of really taking time to think about how you drive your car and what you really want it to do when you're done - proper goal setting.

If you want an 11second drag car, you're going to easily eat through $10k before you're done and then what? Then you need another daily driver, you need a rig to tow it to the track, depending on location, you may only get to drive the car for about ten minutes a year during the summer at the track, and when things break, they're going to break in really bad, make you just want to cry like a bitch ways.

If you want an awesome street car, you could drop half that amount into your car, and not just into the motor! Get some nice wheels, a quality suspension set up, and a brake upgrade. Now you're the guy with the cool DSM at school/work and your car is like your own personal roller coaster everywhere you go. Sure, you might still only run a 13-14 second quarter, but you get to enjoy your car nearly every single day.

Personally, I think the trick is this: You need to figure out what you want to, ultimately, do with your car. Doesn't matter what that car is, you need to determine what you need from the car. Then start building your foundation. If your car is a bit tired-looking and you want the clean daily driver, spending all your money on the end-all turbo kit up front now will leave you driving a quick beater. Conversely, putting it all into looks will leave you driving a car that you think is slow and gay despite its looks. The trick is to start with a modest turbo kit - build your own if you have to, but also invest some money into making the car look or handle the way you want. This way, you see improvement in all the areas that are important to you and you continue to both enjoy your car and your project. It keeps you in the game.

Originally posted by Bigtymr1021
i was just wondering if it would be a wise decision to sink money into a 420a rather than a 4g63,

Like I said, it's got nothing to do with the potential of the motor so much as it does with your goals and love of your own car. From one point of view, it wouldn't be a wise decision to modify either, since reliability goes down as power comes up. "The brightest candle burns out the quickest."

Originally posted by Bigtymr1021
obviously the 4g63 would be a better investment...

Nay. 4G63 would be a smaller investment. If you want 300hp+ for under $2k, then a 4G63 is more feasible. It's better for your financial situation. Now, beyond 400hp, I'd say the financial aspect goes right out the window, as engine internals and machining are nearly identical in price, 420A and 4G63. In the 200-400hp range, the 4G63 is less expensive. Beyond 400whp, it's not the engine that holds you back, it's not the cost, but the transmission. (AWD)

Originally posted by Bigtymr1021
i was wondering on the results side...possibly more options for the 4g63

Considering how MMC has been using the little engine that could for close to twenty years, now, and Chrysler has only used the 420A for about ten, there is obviously going to be a larger aftermarket and, therefore, more options. When you think about it, the real extent of their options that we don't have for the 420A come in the form of intake and exhaust manifolds. Sure, there are no performance transmissions for the 420A, but how many 420As are making enough power to shred their transmissions? Well, HRC runs in the high-10second range on a stock transmission and he's not had any problems (that I know about). You might even look at it that the reason there are so many options for the 4G63 is because they keep breaking shit!

4G63s are making 400hp+ on stock bottom ends. They're making over 1000hp on built engines. These guys have been pushing their engines until they snap and have had to come up with new ways to improve the durability of their motors. Aside from maybe three or four guys over here, nobody has really crossed the 400whp mark yet. A lot of eyes are on Doug these days, as he's poised to be the man who makes it happen. Joe, one of the other MFGracing guys, sounds like he might be working on some kind of diabolical scheme as well. In the meantime, we have a larger component of our membership concerned with name brand air intakes and catback exhausts - both of which do zilch in terms of making any real power on these cars. Combine that with these models of 2G DSMs being the most affordable to students (high school and college) and the lower budgets become almost a global restriction on our advancement. If I've got $1000 and a turbo system that still leaves me eating 350Z/CobaltSS/SRT4 dust all day long is $3000, I think I'll just get an exhaust and a sub. "I'll never be able to play on that level." It's sad.

Originally posted by Bigtymr1021
I'd just like to see the limits of a 420a

If you would like to see those limits, first hand, then you'll have to either invest the time and money into your own car or hang out here and help othes who share in your goals to achieve them as a team. You don't have to have a built motor, turbo, and MSnS by next summer to be a part of things, here. You don't even have to own a 2GNT. If you want to go fast for cheap and don't really care too much about your own car, you can pick up that AWD 1G and hang out here to help others. Just because your own 2GNT isn't the one out there setting the records and raising the bar doesn't mean that you're not a part of pushing those limits. Know what I mean?

I have owned my 2GNT over a decade, now, but I've only really been fucking around with it for about four years (since I found this forum). I can see how this community is getting back to it's innovative roots and finding creative ways to make more power. As recently as this week, one of our oldest members, someone who sold his 2GNT something like three years ago, popped and said, "It looks to me like making power out of a 420a is finally getting to be like paint by number." So I know we're making progress. We're just a bit behind the 4G63 guys and don't have AWD. That's about it, really.

Personally, I would like to see more people on this forum who really love their cars and want to see to it that the 2GNT platform continues to advance. It doesn't matter what the 4G63 guys are doing. Apples to Oranges, imo. We've got Mark Bullett out there continually breaking all motor records and Todd is still out there being a machine at the tree, consistently running low 15s naturally aspirated. Thura has 398whp. Doug is aiming for 600whp. 2.4L, turbocharged monsters are coming to life all over this mother fucker. Maybe it's just me, but these are really exciting times for the 2GNT community.

Forget what you may have learned about how the 2GNT is the black sheep of the DSM family. Forget about what the AWD guys are running for a minute and take a closer look around, over here. This is the calm before the storm.

Once upon a time, someone posted on this forum about how he installed an aftermarket turbo system and ran a 14.5 at the track. Today, HRC and Star are household names in our community. Today, people are getting ready to cross the 400whp mark. I can't wait to see what tomorrow is going to bring...

Awesome response DR1665...glad to see some people take such an interest into these response w/o all the bashing. You brought up alot of good points. I've already invested a ton into my 2gnt, thats why I'd really hate to see it go. Mainly looking for a realllly strong street car. Track breaks wayy to much for my pocket. Thanks for the great post

Driggs, I've read a lot of your ramblings and I have to say that this one was one of my favorites man. Couldn't have summed it up better myself.