I searched and i can't really find the answers to all my questions.
I have a 98 Eclipse GS, I just put a turbo kit on it and i am running a 14B turbo, i think stock, it's around 8 or 9 psi, that's more then enough. I want to keep the stock injectors and am running a vortech FMU, I would like to know if i need an S-AFC and a fuel pressure guage or not, some say yes and some say no. I also need to know what program those of you who boosted a 420A used to tune it. I have a turbo timer, boost guage and an oil pressure guage. My oil pressure is at about 40lbs at idle and between like 50 and 60 at cruising speed. I think that is high, not sure, i thought it should be 20 or 30. It is running really rough though since it's not tuned yet. I am also running 3/8 lines for feed and return for the oil and the water for the turbo. Are these too big/too small? Any help would be great!!!
Thanks
Barry

Originally posted by idlook2
I searched and i can't really find the answers to all my questions. I have a 98 Eclipse GS, I just put a turbo kit on it and i am running a 14B turbo, i think stock, it's around 8 or 9 psi, that's more then enough. I want to keep the stock injectors and am running a vortech FMU, I would like to know if i need an S-AFC and a fuel pressure guage or not, some say yes and some say no. I also need to know what program those of you who boosted a 420A used to tune it. I have a turbo timer, boost guage and an oil pressure guage. My oil pressure is at about 40lbs at idle and between like 50 and 60 at cruising speed. I think that is high, not sure, i thought it should be 20 or 30. It is running really rough though since it's not tuned yet. I am also running 3/8 lines for feed and return for the oil and the water for the turbo. Are these too big/too small? Any help would be great!!! Thanks Barry

You're gonna wanna get at least an egt gauge, better yet a wbo2 sensor, but you can settle on a blinky light narrowband a/f gauge. Running 8-9psi on stock injectors is really not recommended, they're pretty much maxed out at 8psi. If you get an SFMU and a wideband with logging capabilities, you can put in bigger injectors and get a decent tune w/out worrying about leaning out.

Fuel pressure gauge is recommended but just using the FMU you aren't going to be able to adjust it anyways. Some people have used an SAFC, but they aren't as useful on our cars as they are in hondas and some others.

I believe someone just posted a similar situation with a 3/8 supply line which was forcing oil past the turbo seals.

pffft, turn the boost down before u blow somethin' up dude. you shouldn't be boosting anything over 6-7psi on stock injectors, especially when ur not tuned well. get urself some ford redtops (30lb) off ebay or whatever for cheap. stock fuel pump? get a walbro.. also get a B&M engine bay fuel pressure gauge and put that on your feed line (between fuel rail and sfmu). and start saving up for a wideband, u will need this for proper tuning.

Hey guys, thanks for the replies! I have a vortech FMU, is it useless or do i need something to go with it like the walbro and injectors? I would really like to just keep my stock injectors and keep the boost low for now until i save a bit more money. I guess i'll need a some sort of boost controller to turn it down from the stock output, i'm not sure how to manually modify it. I will get an EGT guage today and check out a price on a WB O2, I imagine they need to be specifically for my car and there isn't a universal one. How much do these usually run? I am running the stock fuel pump and a walbro is only $150 so i'll get one of those as well. When you mentioned to get a wideband with logging capabilities, is that the wideband O2 or something different? Sorry, for the stupidiy.
Thanks
Barry

Originally posted by idlook2
Hey guys, thanks for the replies! I have a vortech FMU, is it useless or do i need something to go with it like the walbro and injectors? I would really like to just keep my stock injectors and keep the boost low for now until i save a bit more money. I guess i'll need a some sort of boost controller to turn it down from the stock output, i'm not sure how to manually modify it. I will get an EGT guage today and check out a price on a WB O2, I imagine they need to be specifically for my car and there isn't a universal one. How much do these usually run? I am running the stock fuel pump and a walbro is only $150 so i'll get one of those as well. When you mentioned to get a wideband with logging capabilities, is that the wideband O2 or something different? Sorry, for the stupidiy. Thanks Barry

if you drive your car with the way you hae it now it wont be long b4 you hear booooooom! you need to read a lot more b4 you even think of running ur car turboed . if you dont have a upgraded fuel pump(walbro 255) like you mentioned you will definitly blow your motor from running lean as hell . also you cant turn boost down with a boost controller ,only up so you will need to modify the wastegate if its the stock setting . they dont make egt's or wb02's specifically for our car . i recommend getting a zeitronix wideband which logs data and also has egt .

Cool, thanks alot!, i am gonna get the fuel pump today on the way home and get a price on the zeitronix as well. Will i need to get the bigger injectors like the 330cc's? I think the stock ones are 235cc, am i right? I found a post on another site about how to modify the wastegate using a spring and a bolt/nut, it's pretty easy. Again, thanks alot!!
Barry

Originally posted by idlook2
Cool, thanks alot!, i am gonna get the fuel pump today on the way home and get a price on the zeitronix as well. Will i need to get the bigger injectors like the 330cc's? I think the stock ones are 235cc, am i right? I found a post on another site about how to modify the wastegate using a spring and a bolt/nut, it's pretty easy. Again, thanks alot!! Barry

if you didn't get the fuel pump yet, you can get a walbro 255 from ebay for 95-100 shipped to your door instead of 150 like you said.

you don't need bigger injectors as long as you turn down the boost. Also since you just have a regular fmu you're gonna wanna stick with the stock injectors b/c you can't really tune or alter fuel pressures with it if you get larger injectors. If you want to get larger injectors like 330's just so you don't run ridiculously high fuel pressures than look into getting a vortech sfmu and get rid of the fmu.

for a wideband your gonna be looking probably between 3 and 6 hundred depending on which one you get and what if any additional add ons you get with it, i.e. egt gauge boost sensor, etc.

Wow. Did anyone else notice he's running a 14b @ 8-9psi? You guys also know it flows a lot less air than the typical s16g or 46trim t3/t4 that comes with your off the self star kit too, right? You guys also know that because of that the "8 psi limit" on stock injectors doesn't apply, right?

That all being said, bigger injectors never hurt. BUT you're not close to maxing out stock injectors like say someone using a t3/t4 @ 8psi would be. So I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Since also no ones asked you yet ... what rise rate do you have set for your FMU? 12:1, 8:1, 4:1? Sure you can get a SFMU but that only really helps if you need to adjust the idle and static FP (and it gives you more options on rise rate than your standard FMU). If you're using stock injectors it's not that much of an issue.

Right now, if you plan on tinkering you need a FP gauge, EGT gauge, and an o2 gauge (WBo2 better).

Of all the things that I read the MOST concerning is your lack of a fuel pump. Won't matter what injectors you have ... you need that fuel pump yesterday!

Originally posted by Avenger
What Thura said.

Aside from the lack of a fuel pump, I was thinking the same thing. He's running a 14B. I got into it with the fellas on Tuners yesterday about this very subject. PSI is merely a measurement of pressure. In order to determine power or fueling requirements, you're going to need to know CFM too.

Which is more? 10psi through a drinking straw, or 10psi through a garden hose? See the concept now?

Not that there is bad advice in this thread, otherwise, it's just that Thura hit the nail on the head to perfection. :thumbsup

Hey guys, thank you very much for the info!!. I will probably save for the bigger injectors and the SFMU over the winter since i don't need them right now but like you said, it wouldn't hurt. I'm pretty sure it's the 8:1 ratio on my FMU, should i change it? If so i guess i will have to buy the recalibration kit to change it since i bought it used and it came without any extras. I'm gonna hook up my fuel pressure guage today if it's not raining. I just ordered a walbro off ebay but it's $99 US + tax, shipping and exchange for me since i live in Canada so it'll still be like $150, oh well, i need it. I also looked at the Zeitronix ZT-2, I guess it comes with the WBo2, I think it has everything i need, do i still need the egt guage and o2 guage if i have this? I won't bother modifying my wastegate since the 8psi limit on the injectors doesn't apply to the 14b. Again, thank you very much!!
Barry

If you get the Zeitronix (WBo2) then you don't need the regular A/F gauge. You still need the EGT. It tells you a lot of things.

Your FP gauge will tell you more too. I THINK your 8:1 should be ok. Run through the forumlas on RC Engineering's site to figure out what FP you should be running at full boost (desired HP). Take the difference between that and your static FP and divide by the amount of boost. That's your rise rate. Error on the side of being rich ... not lean. Also I know I over simplified.

Hey Avenger, thanks alot, you are very helpfull. I do understand, haha, i'm just not sure about alot of things because alot of people have different opinions on what i should do, but not what i have to do. I just want something reliable with a bit more power. I'm not looking to race or anything, even thought i may upgrade in the future. Just a few more final questions; once i get all this in, i need to go to a dyno and get it tuned right? can the tuning be done with the zeitronix or is it pretty much just to let you know what is going on? Does it actually tap into the stock computer?, i thought you needed to be able to change the timing a bit? Also, i have a missing link, this overrides the stock map right?, will it trick the computer so i don't need to change anything in the stock ecu?
Thanks
Barry

The zeitronix is just a gauge that monitors the A/F, it can not change it. You don't need to change the timing unless you're running more than ~20 psi so don't worry about that. And the missing link works by not letting the stock ECU ever see positive manifold pressure, because if it does it will freak out.

Hey, thanks man!!. OK once i get my zeitronix, fp guage, egt guage and my fuel pump all put on and working, how do i tune it, or does it even need to be done? i would like to take it to the dyno and just see what it is putting out.
Thanks
Barry

You don't have much to tune. Actually, there is only one thing that you can change, the rise rate in your FMU.

So this is basically what you'd do on the dyno. Put your car on it. Let it warm up to operating temp. Then do a pull in 4th gear. If at ANY POINT while your foot is full on the gas the A/F ratio goes into the 12.x:1 range let off. Too lean on boost (and stock motor). Get the next biggest disc size for the FMU. If you're 8:1 get like a 10:1 (if they make it).

If you run REALLY rich ... like 10:1 or lower go down a disc size in the FMU (like 6:1). If it's in the 10.5:1 to 11.9:1 range for A/F, then your basically as good as your are going to get with the setup you will have at the time.

Oh and allow ample cool down between runs. You're tuning not trying to beat the ever living piss out of your car.

Originally posted by idlook2
I am also running 3/8 lines for feed and return for the oil and the water for the turbo. Are these too big/too small? Any help would be great!!! Thanks Barry

Your water is ok ... but where in the system do you have the turbo plumbed in?

Your oil isn't good. Your feed and return should not be the same size. Your return should be larger than your feed. I use a -3( or was it -4? eh I forgot.) AN feed line and a -8 AN return.

Originally posted by Avenger

Originally posted by idlook2 I am also running 3/8 lines for feed and return for the oil and the water for the turbo. Are these too big/too small? Any help would be great!!! Thanks Barry

Your water is ok ... but where in the system do you have the turbo plumbed in? Your oil isn't good. Your feed and return should not be the same size. Your return should be larger than your feed. I use a -3( or was it -4? eh I forgot.) AN feed line and a -8 AN return.

I use -4 feed and -10 return.

Ok, i guess i should order the disc kit to change the setting on my fmu just in case so i have it. I have my turbo plumbed in from my oil pressure sensor, i have some 5/8 and 3/4 ss line so i can change the return, which would be better? This may sound stupid but this is the description for the Zeitronix
" Zt-2 + BLACK LCD Display Bundle.
New black anodized aluminum case. This is a very nice and deep shade of black, not cheap grayish black imitation anodizing.
Includes the Zt-2 Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Meter, Wideband Oxygen Sensor, Sensor Harness, Signal Harness, Datalogging Software, Installation Instructions, 2 pin EGT connector to retrofit your EGT probe and Zeitronix LCD Display with peak and hold feature. High contrast LCD visible even in a direct sunlight." Do i still need the egt guage since it says it has the connector to retrofit my egt probe, it shows the temp on the screen ? I'm not trying to avoid getting one, i just don't want to get it and not need it. The link for the Zeitronix is http://www.zeitronix.com/order/order.htm
Thanks
Barry

You don't need an egt gauge you need the egt sensor, if you get zeitronix that is. The zeitronix can read rpm, A/F, EGT, lambda, and TPS, that should be all you're going to need.

ok great, i ordered the EGT probe with it, total it'll be $600 CDN shipped to me, i guess thats not too bad. How about my oil lines, which would be better, the 5/8 or the 3/4 ?
Thanks
Barry

3/4" for the return.

Great, thank you all very much!!! I will let everyone know how i make out. I will have it all within a week and put on, then off to the dyno :) My next trip to the US i definately owe you guys a beer!
Barry

Is it better to put the EGT probe before or after the turbo?
Thanks
Barry

BEFORE. It should be in the cyl 1 runner (which runs the hottest usually) of the exhaust manifold about 1" from the head.

Hey, i think i may have a problem, i thought my disc in my FMU was the 8:1 but i called the guy again last night and he said it a 12:1, it will take 3 weeks to order the recalibration kit from vortech and i can't wait because i am moving in a week. It says the 12:1 is good for 19lbs/hr injectors. The stockers on my car are 235cc? i think. So they would be 22.38lbs/hr. If they are working perfectly, as they are 7 years old, i may get lucky and they might be down around 20lbs/hr or so. Should i try it with the 12:1 or just wait and order the kit after i move? I really don't wanna run too lean and blow something up.
Thanks
Barry

I don't really know much about the FMU, but if you can't get it before, just drive it without beating the piss out of it, don't boost.

Yea, that's what i was thinking, I am moving to Alberta so maybe i'll drive through the US and i might get lucky and a shop down there will have them in stock. Plus, gas, hotels and everything is cheaper !! The performance shops we have here are a joke, if you don't own a honda, you are shit outta luck!
Thanks
Barry

Originally posted by idlook2
I just put a turbo kit on it and i am running a 14B turbo, i think stock... It is running really rough though since it's not tuned yet.

What do you mean by "running rough" ?

Cause if the engine is idling roughly or stumbling at all...

Alright, my new setup was working fine for about a week and now it is acting up. I have the walbro 255, 12:1 fmu, stock injectors, zeitronix wideband with egt and boost and a fuel pressure guage. I am running a 14b. It is about 7 or 8lbs. At idle i am at about 50psi on the fuel pressure guage. My CEL is on so i put the snap on scanner on it today and it says O2 bank one, and MAP bank one. I'll be driving along and the A/F is about 15 or so and then when i give it some gas it will start to buck and drop down to about 11 and then go back up as i push more on the gas and it works fine. It is also doing this at a constant speed, say if i am cruising on the highway at about 100km/h and it will just start to buck like crazy and the A/F drops. The EGT is roughly 1200 or so at a cruising speed. Somedays the car works perfect and other days it's a bitch, I changed my plugs today and cleaned my missing link. I can't think of anything else to try, any ideas anyone? I am driving about 3000 miles in the next few days so this is a big problem for me!!
Thanks
Barry

Change your front o2 sensor. It's hosed. Since all your fuel trims come from that you should replace it. Also since you have an o2 code the ECU thinks you're all fubar'd and dumping too much fuel.

And you shouldn't be throwing a MAP code. Clean your map ... check your connections. Also verify with an obd2 scanner what signal the car is getting from the MAP sensor.

Ok, i am gonna get a new front O2 tomorrow, should i just get a regular stock one or should i get one froma turbo neon or something different. Could it be that it is running to hot and that is what screwed it? I'm not sure what the deal with the MAP is, it just said bank one, map error. I have a missing link and the filter is clean and everything, my CEL comes and goes. I'll clean my missing link again tomorrow
Thanks
Barry

Alrighty, that motor didn't last long. It worked perfect for 2 weeks and then i was on my way from nova scotia to calgary and i blew it up outside of sudbury. My #2 cylinder only has 25 compression and the other 3 have 175 so now i get to rip it apart, It's spitting the oil out the dipstick tube and the air breather on the valve cover. I guess i won't know what all i need to replace until i get it apart. Any advice on what parts to use for a rebuild, since its gonna be apart i may as well do it so it lasts this time. I saw a thread on what type of HG to use but i guess everyone has their own preference on internals.
Thanks
Barry