i been doing alot of reading up on what they are and how they work and for some reason it seems like its not the choice of most 420a'ers? this puzzles me because to me it seems like the most fool proof way of tunning your car and insuring its geting the proper amount of fuel at the proper time. It seems from the posts ive read that most people have alot of trouble with them so im bringing it to this section for discussion. to me even if your running low boost5-7 lbs or even high boost 18-20+ lbs, this device can be programed to give your car the proper amount of air to fuel ratio at the proper time. it actually creates a fuel curve which the fmu dosent its just a straight line, basically normal and pour. my questions are many cause im kinda stuck at the route i wanna take, im tired of my fmu and was thinking of going with the sfmu but was told it to has a straight line fuel curve. no im looking at the safc? maybe im way off here maybe not but basically i wanna be able to turn the boost up when i want to like at the track or to have fun from time to time and still be able to keep the boost down for normal driving around 10psi. problem now is if i go over 10 i get fuel cut bad (stock injectors, fuel rail and fmu) if i got an safc id eliminate the fmu, altogether right? also im begining to read the missing link is junk? can someone just kinda explain to me what i need to do to take my car to the next level? im basically stuck with 10psi being my max and its not even an agressive 10psi cause our injectors dont handle well over 7psi, not to mention fmu crap. i wanna be able to run 8-10 psi all the time with a nice fuel curve, and be able to run it up to 20 psi when i want? sorry if this sounds crazy im just trying to explain the best i can and this fuel issue is getting to me, a shopping list would be nice
thanks in advance
joe

Originally posted by joeck76
i been doing alot of reading up on what they are and how they work and for some reason it seems like its not the choice of most 420a'ers? this puzzles me because to me it seems like the most fool proof way of tunning your car and insuring its geting the proper amount of fuel at the proper time. It seems from the posts ive read that most people have alot of trouble with them so im bringing it to this section for discussion. to me even if your running low boost5-7 lbs or even high boost 18-20+ lbs, this device can be programed to give your car the proper amount of air to fuel ratio at the proper time. it actually creates a fuel curve which the fmu dosent its just a straight line, basically normal and pour. my questions are many cause im kinda stuck at the route i wanna take, im tired of my fmu and was thinking of going with the sfmu but was told it to has a straight line fuel curve. no im looking at the safc? maybe im way off here maybe not but basically i wanna be able to turn the boost up when i want to like at the track or to have fun from time to time and still be able to keep the boost down for normal driving around 10psi. problem now is if i go over 10 i get fuel cut bad (stock injectors, fuel rail and fmu) if i got an safc id eliminate the fmu, altogether right? also im begining to read the missing link is junk? can someone just kinda explain to me what i need to do to take my car to the next level? im basically stuck with 10psi being my max and its not even an agressive 10psi cause our injectors dont handle well over 7psi, not to mention fmu crap. i wanna be able to run 8-10 psi all the time with a nice fuel curve, and be able to run it up to 20 psi when i want? sorry if this sounds crazy im just trying to explain the best i can and this fuel issue is getting to me, a shopping list would be nice thanks in advance joe

A s-afc does not eliminate your need for a FMU or FPR. Basically, the s-afc is not an ideal setup for a couple of reasons. A: You really cannot raise the amount of fuel you get at WOT because if you raise the MAP sensor signal you will be contradicting what the missing link is doing for you. B: The by leaning out the mixture with the S-AFC, you can advance timing without even knowing it, and advancing timing is not something you want with high boost.

Your best bet is to go with the MSnS or portfueler. You can get a SFMU and a S-AFC and run fairly high boost but for just a little more you could get the MSnS and be much safer and run as much boost as you want.

Whichever way you go, to boost more then 8 psi you will need bigger injectors.

The missing link can be junk, but if yours is working there is no need to replace it. Mine didn't work when I got it.

I guess i still need to read than cause i was under the impression that an safc would eliminate the fmu and the missing link and the safc would need like a 3bar map sensor or something? so if you need an sfmu with the safc than i guess i can progress as planed by upgrading my fmu to an sfmu and getting bigger injectors and a bigger rail. i hear what your saying about the msns but how will the portafueler work with low boost? if i just changed to a bigger rail and some 310cc and an fmu id be good up till about 14psi, id still keep my good idle and car would run good under low bost operation. my biggest thing is i dont wanna be stuck having to run 18 psi all the time as a daily driver or maybe i do and i just dont know it yet? i just wanna make sure my car still idles correctly and doesnt drink gas like my explorer does.

First, you dont need a bigger fuel rail. The stock one will flow just fine. The only real reason to get a different rail is if you want to go to larger -6 fuel lines then a rail from rossracingmachines.com worked out good for me.


The portfueler works great at low boost because it senses boost and rpm and adds fuel through the additional injectors based on what its fuel map says.
When not in boost the car runs just off the stock injectors so you run the oem fuel pressure at idle.

This fact alone makes it better than a sfmu since you dont have to lower your fuel pressure to accomodate the larger injectors.

Plus with the 1:1 FPR even at 25 psi of boost your fuel pressure is only 25 psi over the base setting so no insane amount pushing against the fuel lines.

As far as I'm concerned, the only thing an SAFC is good for is to pull fuel throughout the rpms while using large injectors.

I'm using 450's and at low FP i'm still running FUCKING rich. I'm awaiting the delivery of my safc2 so that I can pull fuel at idle and make it like it's got stock injectors :) untill I step on the pedal.

I still need the SFMU to RAISE the FP under boost, I just need the safc to make the computer think theres not so much air so it doesn't dump all that fuel.

I'm rambling, I just woke up 5 minutes ago :P

Originally posted by baxsom
Plus with the 1:1 FPR even at 25 psi of boost your fuel pressure is only 25 psi over the base setting so no insane amount pushing against the fuel lines.

That's one of the main reasons I chose to go with MS. I didn't like the idea of pushing insane fuel pressures through my lines. Heaven forbid one of them pops off or ruptures under boost.


Brian

ok so now it seems like portafueler is the way to go. whats the difference between the mega squirt and portafueler? sounds like they both kinda do the same thing, what involved with the install? does the whole set up come with everything needed?

The megasquirt is a device that controls primary injectors. You upgrade the stock injectors and the MS runs those only. Your stock intake manifold, fuel rail..etc stay in place.

The Portfueler is a piece that installs in between your head and intake manifold. You have a total of 8 injectors in the setup, your 4 stock injectors and then 4 secondary injectors in the PF. Under normal conditions, your ECU controls the stock injectors and the car drives like stock. When boost hits, the PF starts the secondary injectors in addition to the stock 4 to inject more fuel when in boost. It comes plug and play, but also has the capability of being tuned.


Brian

I personally use the S-AFC and I love it. Since I have big injectors, I can lean out my idle and still have it idle smoothly, not only that, at 20+ psi, I can throw in some extra fuel if I really need to. It is a good device IMO.

You mentioned the ML too, I had 2 and didnt like them, I think they are no good. I use a homemade FCD AND I love that. I made some for some orther memebers and they all say the same thing too.

A S-AFC is just really a piggy back system.

Mike
but what happens if you try to run low boost like say 5psi? your big injectors allow it with a good idle still or no? im begining to think the portfueler is exactly what im looking for, i like the fact that it allows the car to do its thing under normal operations and only steps into play when needed. if i get this from what i understand it will replace the fmu and need for a s-afc also i might think of getting one of your homade devices we will see after i see what route i decide to go, to those who are running the portfueler whats your take on it? happy? wish you would have went a better route? or is it the best investment you went with. To me personally at only $299 it seems like the way to go but i wann be sure. thanks

I have had my portfueler for 3 months now

the hardest part about the install was removing the intake manifold.

mental note, its easier to go from the bottom.

you also have to grind some metal of the valve cover to allow room for the extra fuel rail. Make sure you torque the bolts from the manifold to the head properly, thats it

so far those are the only gripes i had about it

wiring was a minimum chore. if you have a msd dis 2 you do not need the tach adapter either. the tuning software isnt as high tech as the megasquirt but it gets the job done.

if you already are a stage 2 turbo then just replace the fmu with the afpr and you are good to go.

I idle at 40 psi and under 15 psi of boost my fuel pressure is like 55ish.

Transition to boost is smooth with no bogging or bucking and the best part is after the installation. The car fired right up.

I highly suggest a wideband though to monitor AFR. The megasquirt really needs one to work properly, the PF doesnt but it does help in tuning. Your PF will come tuned to run around 10:1.

hope this helped

This helped alot, i already had my intake mani out before so i know what i loking at in that department but thanks for the tip, i really think this is what i been looking for, i will be sure to post my results. thanks for your help

Where did you see that it was $299?? Last I saw it was in the range of $1,000

really wow i hope i didnt mis read it? i looked it up on hahns web page a thousand dollars is a bit of a difference but i hope i saw right

Originally posted by joeck76
really wow i hope i didnt mis read it? i looked it up on hahns web page a thousand dollars is a bit of a difference but i hope i saw right

I think it is $299 just for the mounting system. Then add another $157.50 for AFPR, $259.99 for PortFueler Control Module, another $69 x 4= $276 for injectors, and another $100 for fittings, etc. Total = $1092, so maybe $1000 if you but the whole thing at once...

How much is MS?

Originally posted by 97eclipse97

Originally posted by joeck76 really wow i hope i didnt mis read it? i looked it up on hahns web page a thousand dollars is a bit of a difference but i hope i saw right

I think it is $299 just for the mounting system. Then add another $157.50 for AFPR, $259.99 for PortFueler Control Module, another $69 x 4= $276 for injectors, and another $100 for fittings, etc. Total = $1092, so maybe $1000 if you but the whole thing at once... How much is MS?

$300 if you buy it built and that was with a 3-bar map... add whatever a 1:1 fpr costs and like $40 for sensors and add whatever injectors you want costs(I got 42# ford inj off ebay for $147 and they're good for about 15psi). If you build it yourself knock about $150 off... A wbo2 is very helpful but not necessary. If you take it to a dyno you can spend a few hours and get it dialed in. Either route a wbo2 is going to be helpful.

Oh yea, I didn't see it mentioned here but I've seen it in another thread. With the port fueler if an injector fails under boost, be it a stock one or one the PF is controlling, you may still get enough fuel in the cylinder from the other injector to cause big problems. All hypothetical of course....

its definetly possible that an injector may fail. that is however a chance to take when mods go to this type of level. That is where watching your gauges when you are boosting that hi comes in. AFR and EGT(especially AFR) are a must when you start boosting that much pressure.

yes, the PF is high, I paid like 1100 total for it. IMO it was worth every penny.

I'm going to use 450's w/ an SFMU Aand SAFC. Its cheap and works well. Mike I'm gonna hit you up for some settings info on the afc once it's installed. lol Or I guess I could search :shrug

Just make sure the injectors are the correct impedience.