alright this might be a dumb question to all you guys, but im wondering.. i hear 5-7 pounds of boost is the limit for stock internals, but what actually fails first, the piston or the rods, is it possible to change the pistons and keep stock rods if your not going too radical with anything? how much hp can the rods handle, etc.. just fill me in on subject. im trying to soak up as much info before i start making my esi either a nice quick car or a rolling time bomb.

ur right about the 5-7 psi... and its usually the piston ringlands that fail first, and if ur gonna tear apart the motor and replace the pistons you may as well do the rods cause i mean you wouldnt wanna have to do it twice ya know!

I think its more a matter of tuning then it is boost that kills our motors. For instance the guy running 16 psi on the stock motor with his AEM EMS controlling fuel hasn't had problems yet, While others have blown at 5 psi. I believe it all comes down to your fuel system's capabilities and skill with tuning, and plain old luck. My engine just wont die, no matter how much I beat her.

mine failed at the ringland. the top of the piston separated completely from the rest. it was at 7 psi


gave me the excuse i needed to start building

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
My engine just wont die, no matter how much I beat her.

You just jinxed yourself probably!

I question the credibility of anyone that claims to run higher boost on stock pistons. Hahn did so much R&D to prove that 300hp on stock bottom with proper tuning is the limit. The pistons are weaker than the rods. The rods can sustain 15psi but not long term (3+ years). Again this fifure depends on your driving. You can install new pistons on stock rods if you want no more than 300whp but the rods are the cheapest part.

As set of JE pistons/Eagle Rods combo can be had for under 800 new on ebay.

Terry

ahh thanks for the info. I think im going to just keep watching stores/ebay and pick up a set of eagle rods/je pistons and just slowly build the motor right. I have four years of an electrical engineering degree ahead of me and im going to need a working car. when things go wrong that are fixable, as we all run into, thats no prob, but if my motor throws a rod or the pistons let go, thats something i wont be able to deal with as easily. plus my block, crank head etc are all in pretty darn good shape as of now. shame to ruin it for like 2 weeks of boost. im really comfortable with the new car thanks to putting a new timing belt and water pump in, and other minor stuff. its just going to take a while to get my dream of a 420a owning some 4g63's...

question on the pistons.. i cant find stock bore turbo 8.6 to 1 compression je pistons(8.whatever i forget the exact #) am i just failing at the search or do they only make overbore sizes. (then again my motor might be bored .20 over already, ill have to check it out someday i have stuff apart.)

well according to some on this site (despite the fact that most agree 7psi is max on stock internals) you can run a 12.5 with a stock engine and god knows what boost level, so have fun.

Hahn has an interest in rating our stock bottom end as low as possible... he is not impartial, he sells things for our cars. He wants to sell more rods and pistons, so he will undersell the strength of our stock rods and pistons.

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
Hahn has an interest in rating our stock bottom end as low as possible... he is not impartial, he sells things for our cars. He wants to sell more rods and pistons, so he will undersell the strength of our stock rods and pistons.

Yay, someone actually thinks for themelves.

With that said I ran 7.5 psi on a Star stg.2 without any probs so I think thats a safe bet. If you are worried about blowing the motor I wouldn't go above that. On the other hand, if you are adventurous, just keep turning it up until it blows :)

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST

Originally posted by GSGoinFast My engine just wont die, no matter how much I beat her.

You just jinxed yourself probably!

lol probably. I just need this engine to last until summer, then it is 2.4 time. But seriously I was running 10 psi at the track, definitely not getting the fuel I needed, car was just dieing, and I think it busted my FMU because now 8 psi is dieing on me too, but the engine still chugging just fine. /shrug /crossfingers /knock on wood

i say if ur gona work on internals u should wait and save up atleast 1 grand and get the rebuild kit off concept illusionz. thats what im gona do.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eclipse-Talon-420a-Performance-Rebuild-Combo-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33620QQitemZ7979491306

going for an electrical engineering degree huh? yea so am i. just about done with my first year, and it hasnt been easy so far. i do very badly want to turbo my 420A, but my luck is that if i ever do any mod for performance at all, no matter how small, my car will not be reliable at all. so i am just gonna keep the RS stock and try and find a cheap awd. though i would love to be able to beat a 4g63 with my 420A, i like getting put in the back of my seat with awd or a small block with slicks more than anything. someday though, i will have a turbo 420A. someday...

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
For instance the guy running 16 psi on the stock motor with his AEM EMS controlling fuel hasn't had problems yet, While others have blown at 5 psi.

i stil think the dude is full of his grandmas shit

Originally posted by donnyb373

Originally posted by GSGoinFast For instance the guy running 16 psi on the stock motor with his AEM EMS controlling fuel hasn't had problems yet, While others have blown at 5 psi.

i stil think the dude is full of his grandmas shit

Yeah me too. Its like when suieclipse was saying he had 325whp.

Didn't tommyboy consistantly break stock rods at 13psi with those crapco's in his block? From what I have seen, the pistons are the first thing to go (mainly due to ringlands), then the rods. I ran 8psi on the star kit on a stock bottom end for 2+ years with no troubles. Now as for 16psi on stock internals, I will believe that when I see it. Even with the best tuner controlling the fuel that is difficult to believe.

Originally posted by jsupetran

Originally posted by donnyb373

Originally posted by GSGoinFast For instance the guy running 16 psi on the stock motor with his AEM EMS controlling fuel hasn't had problems yet, While others have blown at 5 psi.

i stil think the dude is full of his grandmas shit

Yeah me too. Its like when suieclipse was saying he had 325whp.

maybe when he bought it, it already had a built bottom end and he didn't know. As for SUI, didn't he have the dyno to prove he hit 337whp

Originally posted by cs82685

Originally posted by jsupetran

Originally posted by donnyb373

Originally posted by GSGoinFast For instance the guy running 16 psi on the stock motor with his AEM EMS controlling fuel hasn't had problems yet, While others have blown at 5 psi.

i stil think the dude is full of his grandmas shit

Yeah me too. Its like when suieclipse was saying he had 325whp.

maybe when he bought it, it already had a built bottom end and he didn't know. As for SUI, didn't he have the dyno to prove he hit 337whp

SIU was originally claiming he had 380whp, but then later showed the 337 dyno sheet.

Originally posted by cs82685

Originally posted by jsupetran

Originally posted by donnyb373

Originally posted by GSGoinFast For instance the guy running 16 psi on the stock motor with his AEM EMS controlling fuel hasn't had problems yet, While others have blown at 5 psi.

i stil think the dude is full of his grandmas shit

Yeah me too. Its like when suieclipse was saying he had 325whp.

maybe when he bought it, it already had a built bottom end and he didn't know. As for SUI, didn't he have the dyno to prove he hit 337whp

Yea, but he MS painted over the lines so we could see better.

my car is auto as well, im currently trying to get this 2001 neon 5 spd thats for sale, as far as that goes, ill need a bellhousing, and clutch pedal/setup. im going to keep the stock auto computer with the 6500? rpm redline, i really dont need anymore rpm than that, being its going to be a daily driver and all. anyone have any ideas about where to get the trannies cheap? and the bellhousing for that matter, speed/tranny sensors as well, i might post some questions in the tranny department though.

i have an intake, header, hi flow cat, and 3" apexi ripoff coming in the mail in around a week. first mods on the talon! im pretty excited. been spraying my header bolts and such with pb blaster for a while now trying to get them all loose to make the job go quicker.

i might just get the turbo setup slowly and just run low boost, get the loose ends figured, then (after the bank builds back up) pull the motor, clean it all up, and get the rods/piston setup and turn the boost up.

once again thanks on all the info. 2gnt.com is almost always up when im on the computer, who needs that english lit paper done now anyway?