what would happen if all i did was run nothing but 112 leaded. what would that mess up beside the o2

heavy deposits on the valve seats, valves, clogged injectors. replacign the o2 every 4 months..ect ect.

how long would it take for all that to happen say a tank ever 2 weeks. lookin to run 12psi

Originally posted by Gsuperman
lookin to run 12psi

i run 18psi on 93 octane pump gas

What's your setup like? Most people run 12 psi on pump gas, let alone 112 leaded.

Brian

Im guessing he wants to try this on a stock bottom end.

thats wat i was thinkin

I dont really want to thread jack but I dont want to start a new thread. I was wondering if I can run 10-12 psi with a decent margin of safety with stock bottom end, 12:1 fmu, upgraded fuel pump and larger injectors with around ~98 octane (toluene/xylene+mmo+93 octane mixture)?

no

Originally posted by boosted60trimrst
no

Can you elaborate? From searching here on the forum I read that our internals should be able to handle 250+ hp according to hahn. Will 98 octane not give me enough detonation protection? or is 12 psi of fuel per pound of boost to much with the stock idle pressure?

Originally posted by BANME!TuNeR

Originally posted by boosted60trimrst no

Can you elaborate? From searching here on the forum I read that our internals should be able to handle 250+ hp according to hahn. Will 98 octane not give me enough detonation protection? or is 12 psi of fuel per pound of boost to much with the stock idle pressure?

10-12 psi: a lot more air + a lot more fuel = a much greater explosion/ more pressure inside the cylinder. Our engine w/stock internals isnt designed to handle that much pressure safetly. People use higher octane so that the fuel doesnt detonate due to the higher pressure before the piston reaches tdc (well just before).

That is why I asked about using 98 octane. My super rough estimate is that at 12 psi, I should be making ~250 crank hp. According to hahn our engines can handle that much pressure its just that any significant detonation and our piston rings will take a sh!t.

Anyone else have any non general answers?

13psi the rods start bending.
one incident of detonation and rebuild time.

your call.

12psi does not equal 250hp. you need to factor in CFM of a turbo and the turbo's efficiency. to do this would require the turbo flow map. your calculations ar enothing more that an inaccurate guess. My 12psi on a 50trim Garrett is not the same as 12psi on a 16g or even a 20g.

Terry

youll coat the catalyst and kill your catalytic converter, not cheap if youre dodging emmission shit

remember octane has nothing to do with power if you dont do anything with it. unless you have have a higher compression or advance the timing you wont make any more power in and of itself. dont confuse its amount of energy and its octane. what do you tune with?

if you're looking for a practical way of say, run a lot of boost...look into methanol or water/alcohol injection and pump gas, spend your energy there. run sick power on pump gas.

Originally posted by turbo8u
youll coat the catalyst and kill your catalytic converter, not cheap if youre dodging emmission shit remember octane has nothing to do with power if you dont do anything with it. unless you have have a higher compression or advance the timing you wont make any more power in and of itself. dont confuse its amount of energy and its octane. what do you tune with? if you're looking for a practical way of say, run a lot of boost...look into methanol or water/alcohol injection and pump gas, spend your energy there. run sick power on pump gas.

I am not running a cat so it shouldnt be a problem. I also have 2 more years before my next emmissions test since I just had it done recently. I know higher octane does not equal more power. But being able to raise boost because of greater detonation protection does. I was planning to tune with a sfmu so I can run 440cc injectors and also lower my idle fuel pressure. I think I will look into water/alky injection too.

Thank you guys for all the replies.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
12psi does not equal 250hp. you need to factor in CFM of a turbo and the turbo's efficiency. to do this would require the turbo flow map. your calculations ar enothing more that an inaccurate guess. My 12psi on a 50trim Garrett is not the same as 12psi on a 16g or even a 20g. Terry

It was just a rough estimate. I know 12 psi on different turbos equate to different power levels but since I am running a decent sized turbo I estimated on the high side.I guess an extra 110 crank hp on 12 psi is a lil wishfull thinking on my part. I am running the standard t3/t4 that came in the star kit.

Originally posted by RoughRider01
fuel doesnt detonate due to the higher pressure before the piston reaches tdc (well just before).

Also because of HEAT. Hot spots on a piston can cause pre-ignition.

Like turby said, anything you can do to cool the intake charge yields power ie:methenol/more efficent IC.

Put it this way, videotape it and post the vid when you blow up your stock internal motor. :P

Originally posted by Blizare

Originally posted by RoughRider01 fuel doesnt detonate due to the higher pressure before the piston reaches tdc (well just before).

Also because of HEAT. Hot spots on a piston can cause pre-ignition. Like turby said, anything you can do to cool the intake charge yields power ie:methenol/more efficent IC. Put it this way, videotape it and post the vid when you blow up your stock internal motor. :P

I probably wont try raising the boost till I can afford a rebuild for when my engine grenades. I just want to test out how much power I can make stock internals. Ill be sure to take pics of the carnage. haha. Heres some vids to hold you of till i can afford a rebuild. You guys might have seen these movies already but oh well.

carnage-
sys12.cs.jmu.edu/hawleycj/vids/a···-low.WMV
events leading up to the carnage-
members.ij.net/gg/E46_M3_VS_Eclipse_GSX.wmv

Edit: first vid wont work. It works here though -->http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/view?&h=240&w=320&type=msmedia&rurl=www.dslreports.com%2Fforum%2Fremark%252C9068929&vurl=sys12.cs.jmu.edu%2Fhawleycj%2Fvids%2Faftermath-low.WMV&back=p%3Declipse%2Bm3%26fr%3DFP-tab-vid-t%26toggle%3D1%26cop%3D%26ei%3DUTF-8&turl=re2.mm-so.yimg.com%2Fimage%2F1700267685&name=aftermath-low.WMV&no=8&tt=10&p=eclipse+m3&size=10.5MB&dur=125

If your running the star turbo then dont go 12psi on stock bottom. I cant give you a def HP number but it has been proven time and time again that 10psi starts to snap ringlands with that turbo. 12psi you are really asking for a headache. According to DRAG who made the star kits, 10psi was 275 crank HP, no I cant say i have seen it proven so take it with a grain of salt. the 50trim t3/t4 is slightly smaller than than the 20g hahn sells in terms of CFM air flow.

Terry

275 crank hp at 10 psi... I raise the bs flag full mast. Maybe with tuning but not with just the fmu. But thanks for the info. I guess my cheap ass will just have to save up for a rebuild before I raise the boost past 7-8 psi. I have also wondered which turbo flowed. So now I know.

Originally posted by BANME!TuNeR
275 crank hp at 10 psi... I raise the bs flag full mast. Maybe with tuning but not with just the fmu. But thanks for the info. I guess my cheap ass will just have to save up for a rebuild before I raise the boost past 7-8 psi. I have also wondered which turbo flowed. So now I know.

I'd venture to say 275hp at 10psi with real tuning is not far fetched. We have a lot of Hondas making those kind of numbers on smaller engines up here, but they are all running Hondata/Crome/etc... but 275hp with a FMU, yeah, total BS.

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
... but 275hp with a FMU, yeah, total BS.

you can make 275hp and still be tuning with an FMU, what are you talking about?

ya but not at 12 psi on stock internals

Originally posted by rs_smoked_you
ya but not at 12 psi on stock internals

If your in a perfect world where you can give a target AFR and tell it what the timing should be @ WOT, I think 230 whp (275 crank) is feasable.


Oh BTW, this perfect world is megasquirt :P

I dont see where i posted 10psi with an FMU. IF anyone of you can tell me where i did i would like to see it. Quit halfassing this and rebuild the engine. otherwise dont whine when it you are replacing long before you planned.

My bad. When you said drag claimed 275hp at 10psi I assumed it was still with the fmu.