What do you believe would be the limit to running a "All-Nitrous" 2gnt?

Anyone think 300-400hp could be made using nitrous alone?

I'm seriously considering pushing the nitrous limit with my car.

For those of you that don't know. I have low comp (8.8:1) JE pistons, Eagle rods, Cleavet (sp?) bearings, ported/polished Fierro Racing head, MSD inline fuel pump, and large injectors (trying to sell those now).

I still need to finish my manual trans swap so clutch and axles are yet to be determined. I also have a Diff from ERT coming too.

Since I pulled the turbo off, I'm running a stock header/DP to a 2.5" test-pipe to a 3" Apex-i exhaust.

I was thinking a progressive controller, Direct port and maybe ITBs

Discuss

yea i think so dude, you're going to need a hefty shot of some nitro though and lots of fuel and tuning. i think its a good idea, you should work out how much fuel that is for a 2 liter at 400hp and then work out how much nitrous that would have to be

Has anyone found a progressive controller that will work with our ignition setup?

Terry

96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver

97 Eclipse.........

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Has anyone found a progressive controller that will work with our ignition setup? Terry 96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver 97 Eclipse.........

MegaSquirt maybe? Slick, fill us in. High CR is better for N20 applications and the opposite is true for boost.

Originally posted by JWoodley
High CR is better for N20 applications and the opposite is true for boost.

explain to me WHY?

It's all about cylinder pressure.

There IS NO DIFFERENCE (except for off boost/nitrous power)

most of the drag race domestic guys run low comp pistons in their nitrous motors, but there are some guys who run tiny smallblocks with high comp pistons and nitrous and make huge power spinning a lot of rpm, and I think that is more relevant for a motor like ours... but they both have completely different schools of thought. the big motor, low comp guys just get torque monsters while the small motor guys spin a lot of rpm, which is basically what import guys have to do.
either way, with a strong bottom end and careful tuning, you could get a hell of a lot of power out of a direct port system. the limitation isn't so much your cylinder head and pistons, but what you can do with your fuel delivery and tuning. a stand-alone engine management would be a very important part of a build-up like this.

Originally posted by babybeclipse
explain to me WHY? It's all about cylinder pressure. There IS NO DIFFERENCE (except for off boost/nitrous power)

You must use lower compression for a forced induction because it's putting a larger amount of air into the cylinder. It's harder to compress a bunch more air, thus needing lowered compression to allow for the added mass in the cylinder. It's forcing air into it, causing a higher cylender pressure by default.

It's better to use a higher CR in a nitrous application to get that added cylinder pressure you're talking about. You're not adding a bunch more mass with nitrous, just more oxygen molecules. You up the compression to increase your cylinder pressure when the piston at TDC. It has less mass, so you can compress it more, causing better fire.

As a rule, forced induction = lower CR; nitrous = higher CR.

**EDIT**

Just remember, though, with nitrous your cylinder temps will be higher, more so than with forced induction, and I believe you're o2 sensor will read through the roof (rich as hell) if I remember correctly. You'll need to learn to read your spark plugs to make sure you're not running too much nitrous and not enough fuel. In the event that you do notice something, always pull nitrous, don't add fuel.

Originally posted by cougar694u

As a rule, forced induction = lower CR; nitrous = higher CR.

Thank you.

I'm going to need NAWS, Two of the big bottles :P

Originally posted by babybeclipse
I'm going to need NAWS, Two of the big bottles :P

Since you're my homeboy, http://www.racetested.com.

Keep it on the D/L though, its not exactly street legal. :thumbsup

Originally posted by JWoodley

Originally posted by babybeclipse I'm going to need NAWS, Two of the big bottles :P

Since you're my homeboy, http://www.racetested.com. Keep it on the D/L though, its not exactly street legal. :thumbsup

Wizards of NAWWSSSS LOL

I dunno what kit I'm going to go with right now. I'm broke right now so it's not that big of a priority right now

Altho I am starting a new job the 1st :P

Nice, a UK spec Mini on a direct port system }(
http://www.racetested.com/images/gallery/uk/bmw_mini_motor.jpg?osCsid=a9ea314cdc2cafadf78c7fc7fac25f8f

NOT TRUE AT ALL!

You are still adding more mass to your cylinder with N2O.

You just do it a different way. To make this simple, I will explain it like this.

With turbo, you push the air in. With N2O you pull air in, and here is why:

N2O is really cold, so it condenses all the air drawing more in, basically the air is more dense when it is colder. which is the same effect as smashing air in.

I am not good at explaining shit, but basically your still pulling more air in, therefor cylinder pressure will go up, therefor lower compression ratio is better.

just so you know, N2O is NOT COMBUSTABLE at all... just very fucking cold. That is also why you should slightly overbore you cylinder when you run nitrous to preven galling of the piston on the piston wall when it shrinks around the piston due to the cold nitrous charge.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Has anyone found a progressive controller that will work with our ignition setup? Terry 96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver 97 Eclipse.........

I was thinking maybe a time delayed controller might be worth a shot

Please Brian do not use the word "naws" in the advanced forum.

First of all whoever said you must use lower comp when going turbo is wrong. High comp and turbo work well together as long as you can tune.

Same with nitrous.

Your restriction is going to be the stock manifold/downpipe. It's tiny, and in some of the bends gets nasty. That will be your biggest restriction.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
Assasin of Joy

Err ... so you are going from turbo to just nitrous?! Does ANYONE else find something completely absurd about this idea? 300whp all the time to 300whp when my bottle is full, warm, and I pushed a button but everytime else I'm slow as shit. It should 300whp all the time to 400whp when my bottle is full, warm, and I pushed a button but everytime else I STILL got 300whp.

There is no logic in it unless you just feel like you have money to burn and if you do ... BUY ANOTHER 2GNT for the nitrous project.

And you better not say being turbo is too complicated and expensive ... you run the risk of being more complicated and more expensive with the nitrous setup. Refills, and have fun with your first nitrous backfire. Spraying a 50-100 shot is cake. Pushing the limit with it is another story.

Originally posted by Michael_97RS
Please Brian do not use the word "naws" in the advanced forum. First of all whoever said you must use lower comp when going turbo is wrong. High comp and turbo work well together as long as you can tune. Same with nitrous. Your restriction is going to be the stock manifold/downpipe. It's tiny, and in some of the bends gets nasty. That will be your biggest restriction. Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com Assasin of Joy

Michael, do you still have that ITB set-up you were working on? How did that turn out?

oh and NO, I never said high comp is bad for turbo or nitrous. I'm just trying to get these other people to realize that it's all about cylinder pressure. You just need to keep the motor from detonating (spike in cylinder pressure from pre-ignition). I'd like to see a pro-class Import racer on low comp pistons HA! They all run 11+ comp ratios!

Unfortunatly I have 8.8:1 comp pistons in my motor so I have to live with it (for now ;) )

I lost allot of money in my last turbo set-up. I would LOVE TO BUY A CHILL FACTORY KIT But, I don't have $3500.00 to burn right now.

I don't drive my Eclipse everyday anymore and I'd like to try something different with it. No one has pushed the nitrous route in the 2gnt much over a 100 shot. I have the block to do it. Now I just need the nitrous a nice ITB set-up and free flowing header (and some sort of progressive nitrous controller...maybe something to pull timing too )

Then lots and lots of dyno time!

My car is already on a nice diet. I'm thinking about pulling AC/PS and looking into a light weight hatch too.

I still have a long way to go. I don't even have slicks or the manual trans in yet but all in good time. I'm starting another job after new years so we will see what happens this spring/summer ;)

Brian Brian Brian, whenever you dig your head out of your ass let us all know.....lol

You dont need a chill factory kit chumbly....you have a decent manifold, downpipe, turbo. All you need to do is quit throwing out your IC pipes ect and get the turbo back from Chill factory. 100. for a rebuild kit and its ready to go back in the car, i told you that. Pick it up from Len get it to me and we will get the kit ordered already. Once up and running we can get the IC pipes welded at my house and you make plans to fill your ass with nitrous.

To stay turbo:
turbo rebuild kit...100.00
IC pipes......40.00
Gaskets sealant ect...10.00
My time...priceless
Total................150.00

To go Nitrous:
Nitro kit........300~500.
Progressive control that will work on our cars.........300+ (includes MS)
Conservative total......600.00

HMMN lets see you said you were broke right? Gee whats the best way to go....asshat!

Merry christmas....Get your damn insurance set up and get the car to my house.

Terry

Heads come off the superbee 1st week of JAN

96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver

97 Eclipse.........

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Brian Brian Brian, whenever you dig your head out of your ass let us all know.....lol You dont need a chill factory kit chumbly....you have a decent manifold, downpipe, turbo. All you need to do is quit throwing out your IC pipes ect and get the turbo back from Chill factory. 100. for a rebuild kit and its ready to go back in the car, i told you that. Pick it up from Len get it to me and we will get the kit ordered already. Once up and running we can get the IC pipes welded at my house and you make plans to fill your ass with nitrous. To stay turbo: turbo rebuild kit...100.00 IC pipes......40.00 Gaskets sealant ect...10.00 My time...priceless Total................150.00 To go Nitrous: Nitro kit........300~500. Progressive control that will work on our cars.........300+ (includes MS) Conservative total......600.00 HMMN lets see you said you were broke right? Gee whats the best way to go....asshat! Merry christmas....Get your damn insurance set up and get the car to my house. Terry Heads come off the superbee 1st week of JAN 96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver 97 Eclipse.........

yes sir... <wimper>

you got served. in a good way though.

go boost or go home :shrug

We will see what happens.

I have my turbo and tools back from CF

Might as well make a dash to Terry's place after my next couple pay checks :thumbsup

Getting off topic-
How much nitrous can u spray on a tiny turbo? Would it still be worth it?

well your turbo has a .48 exhuast turbine....i am not sure, 50hp shot maybe? Depends on how much boost you are running i am sure.

Terry
96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver

97 Eclipse.........

Originally posted by Michael_97RS
First of all whoever said you must use lower comp when going turbo is wrong. High comp and turbo work well together as long as you can tune. Same with nitrous.

It was more in reference to higher compression, not really low compression. My brother's running 12.5:1 compression, which I doubt you could run as much boost compared to a 10.5:1 motor. Another buddy of mine is running 15:1, which I know you couldn't put as much to it, either.

I didn't really mean low compression (7~9:1), just lower than you'd use with nitrous.

My probe came factory with 7.6:1(if I remember correctly), which I ran 18 psi. I milled the head and tried 18 psi and blew the head gasket twice.

Unless you're diesel, who are like 18~22:1, turbo'd and running propane...

But the higher the compression you start with the less boost you have to run to get to the same power level. The only downside to higher compression and boost is yoru tuning window.

Brian, Nah I haven't touched my own projects much, too much ERT work to do. Our personal projects take back burner. Building my ITB set up wouldn't be a production part, so it's something I'll get to eventually. I'll get to it after I finally build a bottom end for my car.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
Assasin of Joy

brian, i found out why your turbo blew, contact me

Motofool's a dead man...

Maybe this all-nitrous thing might be the only alternative if my bearing cartridge is garbage...

Originally posted by babybeclipse
Motofool's a dead man... Maybe this all-nitrous thing might be the only alternative if my bearing cartridge is garbage...

How do you figure that? A brand new t3/t4 is only like $450 (obviously it's pretty much a plain jane turbo). No way in hell your nitrous plans come in under this. Progressive controller, direct port, the full kit, not even close to coming in under $500.

Originally posted by babybeclipse
Motofool's a dead man... Maybe this all-nitrous thing might be the only alternative if my bearing cartridge is garbage...

Chris did you take the bearings out to find this? Not being arrogant just wondering. Without taking the turbo apart i wouldnt be poking fingers just yet.

Terry

96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver

97 Eclipse.........

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by babybeclipse Motofool's a dead man... Maybe this all-nitrous thing might be the only alternative if my bearing cartridge is garbage...

Chris did you take the bearings out to find this? Not being arrogant just wondering. Without taking the turbo apart i wouldnt be poking fingers just yet. Terry 96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver 97 Eclipse.........

Terry, When are you free again? Maybe I can bring the turbo out to your place sometime so we can see what is reusable.

This pic drives me nutts.

I'd love to have that set-up on my car :bowdown

I would say that is being set up on a bike. Considering the S&S sticker on the tool box that is probably in a bike shop.

I am free this weekend or next. If you want to leave it i can look at it after work at night. Does the turbo feel like it has a lot of shaft play? I dont rememberit having much of any but i cant say for sure.

Terry

96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver

97 Eclipse.........

Ya, that is off a bike. Sick wet-up tho. ITBs and nitrous

hmmm maybe I can drop it off after work some night this week. I work right off 53 in Itasca. Give me a call when u get a chance

Originally posted by babybeclipse
Terry, When are you free again? Maybe I can bring the turbo out to your place sometime so we can see what is reusable. This pic drives me nutts. http://www.vlc.com.au/~justin/about/bikes/honda/nitrous/HellRaiser.jp g I'd love to have that set-up on my car :bowdown

They've got the float bowls on wrong sides, they're supposed to face outwards from the middle to drain the bowls. How are they planning on unscrewing them with everything bolted up? I know, I know, I'm just messin around...

Man it looks like they siliconed the nozzles inplace. Why go ghetto when everything else looks good. If its on a bike and the vibration knocks one of the nozzles loose and they spray, they can say good bye to their leg when it backfires and blows their leg off.

Originally posted by eclipse_99rs
Man it looks like they siliconed the nozzles inplace. Why go ghetto when everything else looks good. If its on a bike and the vibration knocks one of the nozzles loose and they spray, they can say good bye to their leg when it backfires and blows their leg off.

thats thread sealer

Oh my B! i guess. It looks like they drilled a hole in a ruber coupling and just glued it in place.

Originally posted by babybeclipse

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by babybeclipse Motofool's a dead man... Maybe this all-nitrous thing might be the only alternative if my bearing cartridge is garbage...

Chris did you take the bearings out to find this? Not being arrogant just wondering. Without taking the turbo apart i wouldnt be poking fingers just yet. Terry 96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver 97 Eclipse.........

Terry, When are you free again? Maybe I can bring the turbo out to your place sometime so we can see what is reusable. This pic drives me nutts. I'd love to have that set-up on my car :bowdown

Originally posted by Initial DSM

Originally posted by babybeclipse

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon

Originally posted by babybeclipse Motofool's a dead man... Maybe this all-nitrous thing might be the only alternative if my bearing cartridge is garbage...

Chris did you take the bearings out to find this? Not being arrogant just wondering. Without taking the turbo apart i wouldnt be poking fingers just yet. Terry 96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver 97 Eclipse.........

Terry, When are you free again? Maybe I can bring the turbo out to your place sometime so we can see what is reusable. This pic drives me nutts. I'd love to have that set-up on my car :bowdown

OMG!

That's beautiful!

can i borrow that for a second?

I need to fix it :(

Originally posted by Initial DSM
I need to fix it :(

It looks great. Lemme know when you have it up and running