hi, i was wondering if anyone here knows where i can buy a NON Street Source tubular turbo manifold for my 98 eclipse Nonturbo? ive been looking everywhere and i cannot find one.

You need to get one custom made. I could get one for you, all TIG welded, for about $800usd shipped for an equal length and $650 for not equal length.. they'd have real 4-1 merge collectors (or 2-1 in the case of the cheaper one). Of course, I'd have to give the guy my car to mock everything up, and then I'd be really tempted to keep it :D he does good work though.
There are a few other guys on here that always offer tubular manis when they come up for discussion, as well, and their stuff will probably cost less.

Yup. There was a guy who made manifolds for a while (Alain) and I got one from him. I think the basic idea is take a exhaust manifold gasket to a shop that'll make you the flange, and then take some T's and elbow's (I don't know what thickness of metal) and make a log style. Of course, you'll still have to get the turbo flange, and find a way to weld that on. (that's what I did, and it was a bit tricky)


Brian

just buy the turbo manifold parts off ebay and have them welded up. Should cost you about 200$. As far as welding up the flange just use the hahn manifold as a map.
here

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Neon-DOHC-log-manifold-Kit_W0QQitemZ8008227994QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

hummm by tubular manifold I am not sure if he meant a log style manifold (alain makes awesome ones, or just pick up a used Hahn for like $50 like I did) or a nicer design like an equal length.

What are the true benifits of a equal leagnth? I mean can you really feel or see the differance from a log style(besides it being bling, which they are)? I have never ever seen anyone post spool up times (actual data not sport compact car and thier *it totaly spools faster because i say it does* analysis) or a dyno chart showing that they are better. They likely do spool better and they sure look cool, but for the money...guess you have to make your own decision on that.

Each cylinder fires and lets out exhaust gases at different times. I for get the firing order, but you get the idea. Now an equal lenth will deliver the exhaust gases to the turbine in that same order and at the same times. With a log style the flow is not as good for one, but the exhaust gases from cylinder 1 and 4 are taking longer to get to the turbine, so the gases aren't hitting it at precisely different times one after the other. At higher rpm's this doesn't matter because exhaust gas is being produced faster. Does this make sense at all??? I'm having a hard time trying to explain what I have come up with through deductive reasoning. This is my take on why they are better, so I could be wrong...

Nice explanation.

You're certainly right about the timing of the exhaust pulses hitting the wheel, and actually at lower RPM's (where the timing comes into play more) is probably more advantageous since it'll help spool the turbo quicker. Once already spooled, it comes, to a certain degree, less into play. Although the timing of the pulses will still be in order, and so the another school of thought is that the timing will still be helpful because it would "smooth" out the rotation of the wheel as it's spinning by hitting the wheel at constant intervals.

I might be analyzing a bit much, but since we're on the topic.....

Anyways, I don't think the debate of log vs. equal length is necessarily about which one is better, as I think equal length, if given a choice, would be desirable.

I think the debate however, is HOW MUCH better is it really? Does it really make that much of a difference? I think the poster who brought this up was looking for more than "oh, well I KNOW it does" by someone who's judging from the seat of their pants. Well, how about some dyno graphs or some track times, or some tangible piece of evidence for proof? I think that's the current debate.

Well explained for those who didn't know the difference though.

Brian

I knew how they work and that is defitally a good explination for those of you that did not, again thanks. I still want to see spool up time data along with dyno analysis. I would also be interested in seeing the cooling properties of this type of manifold, and how that would effect the life of it. I have seen a couple local guys and thiers devolop cracks and they have had to get them fixed, not small cracks either, ones that wake the neiborhood and thier turbo is holding on for dear life. If one is made then you should have it re-enforced to the max.

Spool with big equal length designs seems to improve by about 500rpm, on both a 4G63 and a local RSX Type S (K something? dunno). If you were to make a tubular manifold, and you would definitely have to make one yourself, 1-5/8" stainless is the way to go. There are a couple guys on here with some nice tubular manis - SilverBullet20G has one and I can't recall the other, they are both using the same turbo... ahhh can't remember the other guy for the life of me. SilverBullet's is not an equal length, the other guy I can't say for sure (I think its extremers). The one is a relatively simple design that you could replicate yourself pretty easy. Now, a more spiffy tubular mani like this one http://www.eagletalon.net/pics//DSM%20Shootout%202005/1G_FWD_Project/cf_gallery_640/IMG%5F0697%2EJPG?CFID=103130&CFTOKEN=16277060&jsessionid=c430d925eb3b1$3FAl$A
or this one http://www.eagletalon.net/pics/?d=/2005/kevs_header&CFID=103132&CFTOKEN=97873034&jsessionid=c4303efc1ade$40$BAK$
would be much harder to make... budget about two weeks at a few hours per day to make something like that. There are some space concerns in the front of our motor as well, which only makes the whole situation more difficult. You'd need to swap out our ginormous shitty stock fans and rad for something thinner, probably move the fans to the other side as well, just to maintain your sanity. A guy on eBay had a very nice header that mounted the turbo on the driver's side, with flow priority given to the wastegate. It was a very spiffy setup, I liked the look of it, but I don't think he has posted any decent pics of how exactly it was put together on here. This is a similar bit on a Honda:

The guy who makes a lot of really good log manifolds, alain, has made a few attempts at tubular manis but he is never satisfied with them or wants to keep them for himself, so I don't think he would sell you one :D Like I said, if you can't TIG weld and don't have much fabrication experience, I can get one for you that would be similar to this:

$650usd

$800usd if it even fits
but I like this top mount best of all, despite my man's crappy welding on the one runner...




but we are kind of off track now and I'm trying to sell things that don't exist :D let's discuss the benefits of tubular manis instead :P

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
but we are kind of off track now and I'm trying to sell things that don't exist :D let's discuss the benefits of tubular manis instead :P

LOL. I like the short piping and AWIC on that Honda. I know we've gone round and round about WG priority in manifolds, but for some reason, I just think that set up looks schweet. :P

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by BumpinTalon but we are kind of off track now and I'm trying to sell things that don't exist :D let's discuss the benefits of tubular manis instead :P

LOL. I like the short piping and AWIC on that Honda. I know we've gone round and round about WG priority in manifolds, but for some reason, I just think that set up looks schweet. :P

Me too, I am lovin that setup... might do something like that myself. Alllll this room over there, might as well fill it with a turbo. Its like, the only wide open space in my entire engine bay. Then you've got a really short hot pipe to the intercooler, so you'd get slightly better throttle response.. the inlet is like right there so it'd be easy to route it for cold air.. hummm I really need to learn how to tack weld so I can mock things like this up.

Extreme97nt (Paul) and I will preach about JR's work. See my sig. and Paul's posts about his similar setup. He has a full race design with longer runners; Some cars can get away with having longer runners and retain most of the factory compenents but we can't :(

I have a shorter runner design the JR also made. I can still retain two pusher fans and PS but it's close. If we only could have a combination between Paul's manifold and mine....

Yes, JR's work is phenominal. I am super pleased with the product and service recieved from them. www.extremeintercoolers.com is there website. You will need to e-mail them if you would like a manifold like mine. There are many pictures of it search for 2.5l under the turbo section.

best time so far 14.3 @ 101.1mph(no traction)
www.cnnmotorsports.com

hey guys thinks for all the advice it really helped alot. i think becasue of the fact that i will not be running a huge turbo(rebuilt t25 w/ ported exahust housing) i will just buy a log manifold for the time being b/c 1) its cheaper, and 2)i doubt spool up time would differ enough to make a difference with my turbo. once again guys thanks.
-Dan