Ok so last Thursday I went to degrease and pressure wash my engine bay (I've done this tons of times, I use to detail cars including steam cleaning engine bays). Although I was being pretty careless, I sprayed the back (flat metal side) of the ECU w/ degreaser and then sprayed it off when doing everything else to get the grim off. I then drove it back across the street to my apt. for the evening.

The next morning I was on the way to class and it was stuttering at low rpm, and as soon as I brought it up past 3k or so it was like someone just turned off the stutter switch, and turn on the strong, crisp, smooth engine switch. When I got back to my apartment, I grabbed my pocketlogger (was on the charger) and hooked it up, no error codes...

I decided to keep letting my car idle while I got my compression tester out, then all a sudden the engine just died.

Went to crank it back on for sec. to make sure it was all the way warmed up, and it wouldn't start.

Pump was priming, popped in a new ASD relay, no luck. Battery is good.

I tried to do a compression check, it seemed to have been pretty cool by the time I got around to this though. 170-180-190-200 w/ 300 miles on the engine.

I pulled a plug and put a wire on it and tired to look at it while cranking the car (had no one around to help me out), from what I could see in the sun, no spark. I will get a hand tomorrow to make absolutely sure.

Does this sound like I fried my ECU to anyone else? Too bad my ECU is one of those rare as hell early 95 model ones.

I planned on doing a MS over Christmas break, not in the parking lot in the middle of school/exams.

I'd highly appreciate anything you have to say as to what you would do...

Edit: My wideband came in today to just taunt me. I had originally planed on installing it right away, until this.

my car was just doin that a few days ago. it would idle like crap and stutter but if i reved it up a few times it got perfect . turned out to be one injector went bad.. did u check them to see if they are all making that clicking noise or no? i just used a long screwdriver and touched each one and put it to my ear and i found the dead one. tip was cracked somehow.

My car isn't even starting man. When I had my head under the hood last time it was running the 450's were ticking loud and clear.

a while ago i had my cold air intake in the front bumper and it sucked up some water and started doing exatly whut your saying . it was also making like a pop sound coming from the air filter when reved . every time it died i just kept starting the car letting it idle and it went away

After you cleaned your motor did you blow the water out of the spark plug wells?

Before you rule on bad ecu i would get some wd40 and clean all your connectors. Did you try starting it after you removed the plugs?

did you check 12+ from the ASD relay?

Terry

Damn Joel it is never ending. At least if you do need your ultra rare ecu you know where to get one.

My first thought is the relay as Terry mentioned, next try just disconnecting the afc. My afc gave me shit as problems thru 2 ecu's. If the car starts after you disconnect the afc then you have found your problem.

I have a early 95 ecu (dont know if its good or not) so you could have it for the price of shipping and a beer.

My car did the same thing a couple of weeks back after I cleaned the engine bay, it began stuttering and sometimes it died. Well the problem ended up being the coil pack I think they dont like getting wet. So check your coil pack just to rule that out.

I didn't clean the water out of the plug wells after I washed the engine. I did have dielectric grease on my old plugs (which is suppose to keep the connectors from rusting), I had changed all the plugs, then have tried starting, no luck. I have a Screamin Demon gn. coil and Crane Cam wires from Howell. I will try to make certain the wire connection on the plug side didn't rust.

I don't have an AFC. I will go out and check to make sure the ASD relay is getting +12v, although I've put a brand new relay on it.

Originally posted by RxR_Eclipse
I have a early 95 ecu (dont know if its good or not) so you could have it for the price of shipping and a beer.

You have a PM :)

The ECU is sealed in epoxy. Spraying water on the case isn't going to hurt anything. I'd suspect more that you got water in some connector (like the VSS, check it) and it's causing a no-start condition due to a short or lack of sensor output.

Originally posted by DarkOne
The ECU is sealed in epoxy. Spraying water on the case isn't going to hurt anything. I'd suspect more that you got water in some connector (like the VSS, check it) and it's causing a no-start condition due to a short or lack of sensor output.

It seems like some of the rubbery (silicone) sealant around the harness plug was loose (I pulled a little peice of it right off). This may be different from yours.

I checked all the upright connectors (VSS and CrankSS) for water, and unpluged the CamSS and coil plug for the hell of it and negitive unfortunately. Thanks for the suggestion though.

The ASD relay is getting +12v. I went ahead and tried some brand new wires and test the ignition w/ an adjustable gap spark tester, nothing. The cam and crank sensors were replaced at the beginning of the summer. The Screamin Demon coil tested out to OEM spec, even though the cross coil resistance was 14.2kOhm and the range from the FSM is 10.2(I think)kOhm to 14.4 kOhm. I'm not sure what the Screamin Demon pack should read. If anyone who has one can measure theres for me I would love you :). I'm not really sure what else it could be other than the ECU?

did you check your fuses? I didnt see you post that.

Next see if you have injector pulse. if you have pulse but no spark your cam and crank should be fine.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
did you check your fuses? I didnt see you post that. Next see if you have injector pulse. if you have pulse but no spark your cam and crank should be fine.

I didn't mention it, but I have checked the fuses. When I had the plugs out I smelled them and could hardly smell any fuel reminents at all. I'm thinking the injectors probably arn't firing either, any other way to tell?

to see if you have any injector pulse, take a test light with the two wires at the injector plug. connect the test light to the 2 wires of the plug and watch the test light so see if it flickers while someone cranks the car over.
Terry

Ah, of course, thank you. I will try that tomorrow morning.

Figure it out yet Joel? I still gotta send you those pics, havent gotten a good chance but i will. holla at me later.

Ok, so I put in the ECU RxR sent me, and still no start. He did say that this ECU may not work, but I was able to make a connection to it with my pocketlogger like my stock ECU so I'm guessing the ECU is good?

I still haven't been able to get a ride to go to the parts store to buy a test light to check if the injectors are pulsing (even though I don't think they are because the plugs didn't smell like gas). I should have my sisters car this afternoon so I'll be able to get a test light then.

It seems whatever my problem is, is causing this...

...every now and then my fuel pump circuit would be jumping on and off chaotically while I was under my hood looking at stuff. When once when I was in my car, I turned the ign. to on, the fuel pump primed. Then, about 2 seconds later, it went on/off/on/off really crazily.

When I get back from class I will short the relay to make the pump stay on, and make SURE the pump not staying on isn't the problem.

I shorted the fuel relay to keep the pump always on. No luck (I also remembered I already had tried this once).

The ECU I got from RxR was making a humming sound as well, so I plugged mine back in.

I have a check engine code for having my radiator fan always on (I've had it like this forever), but other than that, my pocketlogger reads no other codes.

When I turn the key to ignition, it flashes the CEL this # of times per group of flashes: 12 (power removed last 50 cycles), 35 (radiator fan circuit), 42 (ASD relay control circut), 55 (end code)

Hmm... so as indicated by my problems the ASD circuit isn't working (even though I put a known working relay into it's harness)... I have to run to class now. I'll mess with it some more when I'm back.

Got a test light, no injector pulse (no spark, and MFI circuit error code). I even bought another new relay to try out, and nothing.

Now I'm just wasting time every day just staring at the engine coming up with no answers.

I don't know what it could be?...

RxR's ECU seems to have a problem because it was making a noise when I hooked it up, even though I was able to connect to it.

How much is a new ECU from the factory? This unbelievibly sucks because I'm going to Megasquirt it over winter break. I'm not even sure it's the ECU. :(

Looks like I'm going to go to the dealership to buy an ECU for 3 months of use :wallbash

Joel try the one from the junkyard. How much is an ecu from the dealer? the guy at the junkyard will let you bring it back if it doesnt work.

Well $215 later, with a new ECU from Satan, my car still doesn't start...

I've officially spent more time trying to figure out why my car won't start then it took for me to rebuild my entire motor. Words can't express how I'm feeling right now.

I went through every inspection procedure revelant (without having the scanner cabable of triggering the ASD to check things) trying to figure out why I have no spark or no fuel. I even went through as much of the circuit diagrams testing and testing as I could w/o the ECU triggering the ASD power.

I don't know what else to f'king do.

If anyone else has a pocketlogger, if your car is running can you please tell me if you are shown your RPM during cranking? The FSM says using the special scan tool if cranking RPM isn't shown while trying to start the car it's a CAS problem. My pocketlogger isn't showing the cranking RPM, but I don't know if this is a special function of the special scan tool, like the ability to turn on the ASD circuit when the ign. is on but the car isn't started.

Originally posted by GorkoRacing
Joel try the one from the junkyard. How much is an ecu from the dealer? the guy at the junkyard will let you bring it back if it doesnt work.

I wanted to make sure I got the correct one (else it would fry sensors), make certain it worked, and thought it was w/o a doubt the ecu and didn't want anymore downtime so I got one from Satan. Now I'm paying the price.

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge? If so, what does it read after you prime the pump? If all looks normal there, you've got to have a problem with either a sensor or your wiring harness. Check to make sure you are getting a signal from your tach wire. If you are, check with a volt meter at the ecu to see that your injectors are firing. Then check it at each injector. Do the same with your ignition at the ecu and at the coil pack connector. You should be able to diagnose it from there.

I'm suspicious that you aren't getting a tach signal. I am 90% sure that your logger should pick up an rpm signal when you are cranking the motor as my 034eic injector controller does. I would check it for you with my logger but I cant get my usb to serial adaptor to work with my logger. Anyway, I would start at the CA sensor and go from there.

Originally posted by Matt_95tgs
Do you have a fuel pressure gauge? If so, what does it read after you prime the pump? If all looks normal there, you've got to have a problem with either a sensor or your wiring harness. Check to make sure you are getting a signal from your tach wire. If you are, check with a volt meter at the ecu to see that your injectors are firing. Then check it at each injector. Do the same with your ignition at the ecu and at the coil pack connector. You should be able to diagnose it from there. I'm suspicious that you aren't getting a tach signal. I am 90% sure that your logger should pick up an rpm signal when you are cranking the motor as my 034eic injector controller does. I would check it for you with my logger but I cant get my usb to serial adaptor to work with my logger. Anyway, I would start at the CA sensor and go from there.

First, let me thank you for your great advice.

My fuel pressure is at 16 psi when I short the relay, it spikes to around 20 and then drops to 0 when it gets the prime. I'm certain now everything mechanical is in check (including relays even, timing, compression, plugs, wires, yada yada).

My injectors are not firing I don't THINK (checked with multimeter and also checked plugs for wetness/smell), the response time on my DMM doesn't seem to be the greatest.

I will check my tach signal wire at the ECU for a DC(+) crank voltage while cranking (should have have a signal before cranking while ign is on???).

I will also try to check the signal at the ECU from the CAS for 0v-5v, although I really need an ocilliscope for this.

I too have been skeptical about the CAS for my troubles, it's just a put a brand new one in (along with a CPS) 3 months ago :shrug

Get this... after I went to the SATAN yesterday to try to return the $200 ECU I just bought and them telling me NO WAY, I found a local guy with an early 95 Talon ESi. I tried both my old, and the brand new ECU in his car, both worked. His working ECU did not work in my car. So, basically what that means is I spent $200 for a spare ECU when I'm going Megasquirt in 3 months.

My plan before I read your reply was to use my Pocketlogger in his car to check for a cranking RPM. However I think I can check the RPM signal wire (this goes to the dash gauge, are you sure it should show a cranking signal?) faster than he can come over. I just probably will have to wait to morning to have some light.

Thanks again for your response. Can't believe I haven't given you points yet.

Check out how easy this was...

Ok, I wasn't get a crank RPM, so I plug it into my friends identical model, I unplug his starter coil, try cranking, BOOM ~200 RPM. My two month old crank sensor is bad. Dino, it looks like water seeped down the terminals, as there is a *slight* amount of corrosion at the base of the terminals, even though there wasn't any water in there when I checked it a while back (from checking it over the top of the engine with a flashlight and it still plugged in).

I can pick up the free replacement Friday.

Hopefully I'll have one more post on this thread, saying I'm driving again.

I changed the sensor last Friday, and the car started up immediately. So, I continued the break in phase.

A close friend of mine was killed in a motorcycle accident last Friday night. I went to his funeral, and on the way home my engine blew again...

Cracked the ring lands in cylinder 1 this time. I was only boosting 5 psi (and this is after 500 miles).

I'm thinking the bad crank sensor messed it up and it just got finished off.

90 180 180 200 was my compression results on the side of the highway. Crappy.

A flat bed came to get it and has it in a safe yard until I can transfer it back home, and have the funds to rebuild again with nothing less than forged internals and a megasquirt.

This will be a long time.

Originally posted by WickedESi
Dino, it looks like water seeped down the terminals, as there is a *slight* amount of corrosion at the base of the terminals

Don't you HATE that?

Sorry to hear about both your friend and your motor. Ouch.

As always, i have a stock piston / rod assembly if you need it..

Holy shit Joel!! Sorry to hear about all the bad luck recently. Do I know the person who passed away? Man my phone is always on and your welcome over anytime. Lemme know if I can do anything to help ya out. Take care

My condolences bro.


Brian

Wow, Joel I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. Although it's only monetary im also sorry to hear about your motor. I still have a few spare rod/piston combo's laying around LOL if u need a stock spare. Good luck with the rebuild, it's not cheap but u can rely on the car after that (unless your Thura). Hopefully things start to look up for you here soon. If u need anything u know how to get ahold of me.