ok maybe its just me, but so far the only problem ive had with hahn racecraft is the fact that bill apparently hired a third grader to draw the picture of the oil pan for the drain fitting. now, said third grader only drew me a picture of about 1/8th of the pan, the top corner (or is it the bottom corner?) im clueless! so i cant tell from the picture if the oil pan is turned upside down (with the mounting holes on teh floor, or if its sitting upright with the drain hole at the bottom. i also cant tell the orientation of the pan in the picture, is it sitting the way it would sit when installed, or am i supposed to be lookig at it from the front side as if i was standing in front of the car looking at the rear??? needless to say, its impossible to tell where to put the drain fitting without a picture of teh full pan. does the fitting install sidewars (horizontally) or does it install facing upwards in the shallow portion of the pan? i dont want to pull a hondahater a drill the hole in the wrong place (sorry, i had to) hey hater, if youre reading this im sure you can help. i need a picture! someone! or at least a detailed drawing. help me

http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt --------------------------------------------------------------- VANILLA RICE

This might help....I took a picture of it when installing it since this part of the instructions were so bad.



This is taken facing the front of the car. You can see the downpipe at the top of the picture.

-Jeff
1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T'd

http://gs.dsmpower.com

That's exactly where my oil drain tap is too! :-)

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)/Custom FMIC

http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

LAST EDITED ON 21-Sep-01 AT 01:34 PM (PST)

thanks, now i have some more questions:
1-the oil pressure sensor on the back of the engine block. i took it out (the 1 1/16" socket is not big enough whoever told me that was the right size) anyway, i took it out, and first of all, how is this even a sensor? the threads are closed, there is no path between the threads and the harness for fluid or any kind of signal to pass through? but anyway my main quesion is this...the threads on teh sensor are very small, like 10mm, the hole in the tee that the sensor is supposed to thread into is like a 1/2" hole. WTF!? how am i supposed ot thread this tiny "sensor" into the giant hole on the tee, especially without any reducers or anything?
2-is this sensor just the sensor for the warning oil pressure light on the dash or does it do anything else? if its just the warning light, cant i just not reconnect it and connect my auto meter oil pressure gauge fittin in its place? isnt that where the oil pressure gauge fitting goes anyway?
3-the downpipe. i amclueless about this too. it says cut 2.5" fromt the mounting bracket. theres about 4 brackets on this mofo. can someone just tell me how far down from the upper flange i am supposed to cut (if you still have the flange part of your downpipe that you cut off, can you measure it for me? shit, HRC needs to make a little more effort and include at LEAST a few 5x7" photos of the big picture installation rather than these tiny closeups and vauge written descriptions. im disappointed.
4-does it really matter where the oil drain tap is? because that picture helps but it looks like yours is in the wrong place because its on the left side of the oil pan, the instructions say drill from teh third hole from the right. does it matter as long as the drain fitting is mounted in teh shallow part of the pan, i mean its draining oil, so shouldnt it be working as long as its connected somewhere in the side of the oil pan?
someone help me here

http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt --------------------------------------------------------------- VANILLA RICE

>1-the oil pressure sensor on the
>back of the engine block.
>i took it out (the
>1 1/16" socket is not
>big enough whoever told me
>that was the right size)
>anyway, i took it out,
>and first of all, how
>is this even a sensor?

I'm not sure I understand your thread description and all, but if 1 and 1/16" DEEP socket is not working correctly, guess what? You've probably removed the wrong sensor. We've all discussed this install about 1000 times, so I'm sure the oil sensor socket is the same for your car.

>2-is this sensor just the sensor
>for the warning oil pressure
>light on the dash or
>does it do anything else?
>if its just the warning
>light, cant i just not
>reconnect it and connect my
>auto meter oil pressure gauge
>fittin in its place? isnt
>that where the oil pressure
>gauge fitting goes anyway?

See answer to (1). Just do it right and stop trying to cut corners. Go back and pull out the sensor on the BACK of your engine block that is in fact the CORRECT sensor.


>3-the downpipe. i amclueless about this
>too. it says cut 2.5"
>fromt the mounting bracket. theres
>about 4 brackets on this
>mofo. can someone just tell
>me how far down from
>the upper flange i am
>supposed to cut (if you
>still have the flange part
>of your downpipe that you
>cut off, can you measure
>it for me?

I don't know those measurements but I can tell you that it's the top bracket on the downpipe. I really don't know why this is so confusing. If you just logically take a step back and see where the adapter downpipe would fit over the stock d/p, it should make sense which bracket should be cut.

shit, HRC
>needs to make a little
>more effort and include at
>LEAST a few 5x7" photos
>of the big picture installation
>rather than these tiny closeups
>and vauge written descriptions. im
>disappointed.

I was really, really pleased with the instructions. If you look at the whole two pages of the STAR instructions (more like a table of contents without one picture or detail), you'd probably retract that statement. But I guess that's why HRC expects a real mechanic to do the install and not a hobbyist.


>4-does it really matter where the
>oil drain tap is?

Yes it kind of does. Why? So that the drain hose will sensically flow downwards from the turbo to the drain location. You don't see this now, but if it were say in a totally innappropriate location, the drain hose might either be too short, not go in a direct downward flow, or have too many obstructions from the drain outlet in the turbo to the drain hole you made in the oil pan.

because
>that picture helps but it
>looks like yours is in
>the wrong place because its
>on the left side of
>the oil pan, the instructions
>say drill from teh third
>hole from the right.

Third hole from the right makes absolute perfect sense. Since there are 5 holes IIRC on the front of the oil pan, I don't think it matters if you count from the left OR right. But I think it's counted from the right so as to orient yourself correctly in terms of the oil baffle on the bottom of the pan.

does
>it matter as long as
>the drain fitting is mounted
>in teh shallow part of
>the pan, i mean its
>draining oil, so shouldnt it
>be working as long as
>its connected somewhere in the
>side of the oil pan?

I say just put it in the same spot as the instructions say, and where everyone else puts theirs. Jeff put his there, I put mine there, and I bet HRC also put theirs there. What's to argue? (did you already put yours in the wrong spot? :P )


Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)/Custom FMIC

http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

okay hope this helps. The oil pressure sensor is on the far drivers side of the car. you removed the knock sensor. The sensor should thread right int the T that hrc gives you. You can just trash the sensor. it is basically a switch on or off based on oil pressure. i have an autometer electrical oil pressure gauge and i used it instead of the "sensor" you just need an extra fitting to adapt the sending unit to that hole. you can get those at any autoparts store.
As for the downpipe. take the entire downpipe off unbolt it from the can and header. now take the heat sheilding off the area closest to the header connection flange. okay there is a welded on bracket that actually bolts to the engine to hold the downpipe in place. measure 2 1/2 inches up from the top of this bracket and chop away. now replace the heat shields and cut off the excess that protrudes above the pipe. the hrc downpipe will slide over the stock downpipe but under the heat shields. use the heatsheilds or the exhaust will leak after you clamp it, or you can weld it together.

>I was really, really pleased with
>the instructions. If you
>look at the whole two
>pages of the STAR instructions
>(more like a table of
>contents without one picture or
>detail), you'd probably retract that
>statement. But I guess
>that's why HRC expects a
>real mechanic to do the
>install and not a hobbyist.

The Star instructions have 4 pages not including the cover page plus seperate 6 page wastegate instructions and 2 page fuel pump instructions= 12pages. The Star instructions has pics including the COMPLETE OIL PAN with hole shown where to drill. If it has a table of contents I sure as hell want my insert.
Have you really seen the Star instructions? Another pointless Star cheap shot. Its detailed where it need to be. I didn't have any problems. Its easier to install (no return line-I/he has a 95 who cares, a whole downpipe, no fuel pressure adjustments), it should be simpler.




http://stan2gnt.homestead.com/home.html
Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon 420A-Turbo
Former and future nitrous user

LAST EDITED ON 21-Sep-01 AT 07:02 PM (PST)

>Have you really seen the Star
>instructions? Another pointless Star cheap
>shot.

Yes, I have seen them. Unless they've changed, this is all I've seen:

(page1)

(page2)

(page3)

I guess you took my statement to whatver understanding you chose, Stan, however, if you want further explanation, this is what I meant:

If Cyan is to expect some sort of precise blueprint with pictures explaining every single step as you would find in an entertainment center diagram instructions, or a step-by-step pictured instruction booklet that draws lines for every bolt placement, I think that line of thought was on the side of expecting too much (IMHO). And then came my reference to the STAR instructions. Sure, I made them out to be vague and short. Not that this sort of reference was meant to be negative, but merely shown to be relatively short. The HRC instructions are over 20 pages long, with many picture supplements, plus a 8 page supplement for the fuel system. From the 3 page STAR instructions that I've seen (above), I related them to be short in comparison....that's it.

My reference was neither meant to be negative nor "cheap"...merely explanatory. If you've ever read any of my posts regarding the STAR kit, I'd think you would view me as more than fair and certainly nothing ever approaching critical, much less "cheap" in the "shots" I throw. But I guess I'm less than politically correct.


Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)/Custom FMIC

http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

LAST EDITED ON 21-Sep-01 AT 07:01 PM (PST)

After re-reading my post to you, I think it could have come out a bit on the "sarcastic" side. It's not at all meant that way, but sometimes as you try and explain things, it may come out matter-of-factly. I also was in a pissy mood at the time as I was at work and was not too happy about some things that were goin on.

Sorry bro! :-)

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)/Custom FMIC

http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

LAST EDITED ON 21-Sep-01 AT 07:09 PM (PST)

okay listen, this reply is to your reply jason which you called sarcastic (if you meant me and not stan). yeah it did seem that way a little, apology accepted. but youre misunderstanding me...im not cutting any corners, im being so careful it is going to take me 4 days to do the entire install. first of all, i did not remove the incorrect sensor, i removed the ONLY sensor i saw on the back of the block. the deep socket did not fit, it was slightly too small. as it turns out, i think HRC sent me the wrong tee for that hole. they sent me a tee that is about 2" by 1" long and has holes in it that are about a half inch. looking at my instructions more carefully i noticed that the tee for the FPR and the tee for the oil sensor are the same size. well mine are not, they arent even close. they sent me 2 different ones. figuring this out made that conusion clear. and the picture of the oil sensor installed in the tee show the tee to be about the same size as the stainless line that goes into it, but i may be wrong, ill do like james said and go look for another sensor.

about the oil pan. yes there are five holes, but it depends on which way you look at the pan, whether its sitting on teh groud as it would on the car or whether its sitting face down on the gasket side. but now that ive had some time to think, it would obviously go on the front side of the oil pan no matter what, so the drain line would flow straight down without having to go under the pan and around. logically, so im a dumbass. problem 2 solved. but i stand by my statement about the instructions. it would take the same amount of time and money for hahn to include a picture of the entire pan with the hole in it already so why WOULDNT they?

whew, third, the downpipe...a picture of this would have been nice too, how hard would that be? (of course HRC insreuctions are a bible compared to stars, but thats not the point, they could be better) but anyway, i test fit the manifold and turbo, but i cannot reinstall the uncut downpipe to see where it will fit into hte turbo pipe. so i just thought if hahn measured the pipe cut from teh upper flange there would be no confusion to the right place to cut at.

and finally, a point NO ONE can argue with because its right there in hard print...let me explain. in the fuel section instrutions (for the early fuel system) the TEXT says to install the barbs and tees in the regulator in the following spots: the brass tee goes into the IN port on the FPR and the single barb goes in the OUT port. period. now...the PICTURE in the fuel system instructions shows the FPR with it sitting as it wold in the car (aparrently) with the needle valve on the LEFT side of the picture. so look at the ports on the bottom...the tee with two barbs is on the right side and the single barb is on the left side. in case you havent picked up on the problem yet, go look at your FPR. if the FPR is facing the way it is in the picture, the IN port is on the LEFT side! well either HRC has a FPR with the IN and OUT ports reversed, or they misprinted which port goes to which barb, or my FPR has the ports mislabeled. can someone tell me which is the case? do i hook it up as the picture shows, with the tee in the OUT port (as opposed to the TEXT) or do i hook it up like the instructions say. i am leaning towards this method, it seems more logical for the IN port to contain the line coming from the fuel rail since its returning fuel to the tank through the OUT port but im just confirming. sorry for the length, if anyone reads all this you will see what i mean. IM NOT CRAZY!

http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt --------------------------------------------------------------- VANILLA RICE

LAST EDITED ON 21-Sep-01 AT 07:32 PM (PST)

Thanks for accepting my apology, Cyan ....(I admit,... I can be an asshole sometimes :-) )

As far as the instructions, I definitely believe some of it can be improved. Especially the part about the FPR placement on 96+ fuel systems. I cussed a lot about the instructions that day. (heh)

As far as more pictures. I wholeheartedly agree with you. There's no doubt that they can be better showing more diagrams and such. But what in this world can't be improved? :-) (including my sometimes VERY sarcastic replies to people needing legitimate help)

As far as the FPR tee location, the IN end will have the tee on its side. For illustration's sake, the side that has the brass knob on its top is the IN end that, again, includes the barbed tee on the bottom that leads to the FPG. (I just went in my garage to check) ---(this has been edited to depict the correct information)

Hope that helps man!

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)/Custom FMIC

http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

HAHA, theres the problem, on my FPR the side with the brass valve is the IN side. and my tee is in that side. WTF is going on, is my FPR labeled wrong?

http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt --------------------------------------------------------------- VANILLA RICE

i think i may have found the discrepancy. the in side should logically have only the line running from the fuel rail right? one barb. the out side shold have the tee and the line going to the firewall and the line going to the fuel pressure gauge. well according to HRC instructions, the fuel pressure gauge is supposed to come off the IN side (because the tee is on the IN side and the gauge of course, goes to the tee). i am seriously confused now.

http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt --------------------------------------------------------------- VANILLA RICE

LAST EDITED ON 21-Sep-01 AT 07:27 PM (PST)

The side with the brass knob is IN. That means that the tee is on the IN side along with the FPG.

Therefore, the fuel rail goes to the IN side of the FPR along with the TEE. The OUT end goes to the return line.

I guess I'm dumb too. (LOL) ;-)

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)/Custom FMIC

http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

thanks for the help.

http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt --------------------------------------------------------------- VANILLA RICE

Fire away if you have anymore questions.

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)/Custom FMIC

http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

Use the Cust Service of Hahn that you paid for iwth the turbo purchase!!! :) Have them walk you thru the install to make sure you have it right.




http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/

Perf:
KYB AGX Struts
Neuspeed Sport Springs
5 Strut Bars (2 F/U, F/L, R/U, R/L)
Sprint Front Camber Kit
$15 Rear Camber Kit
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Throttle Body
Nameless Cold Air Intake with a K&N Filter
Custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Dual DTM Muffler
Empty Catalytic Convertor
Energy Suspension Motor Mount inserts
Hurricane_GS Short Shifter
Symborsky Shift Kit
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Modular
225/50/16inch Wheels and Tires


Audio:
Alpine CD Head Unit
Alpine Flex4 25W X 4 for Fronts and Rears
Alpine V-12 450W X 1 for Subs
Infinity Reference Series 5 1/4 and 1 inch tweeter component systems for fronts and rears
Blaupunkt 3 way 6x9's in the rears
3 MTX 5000 10" 12 ohm subs running 4 ohms mono

i would but they are closed until monday of course, and when they are open its from 9-12 am. come on, im not up that early, lol :)

http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt --------------------------------------------------------------- VANILLA RICE