Hey all,
Ive been reading all about the 60mm tb and been searching this site for every study hall(2 of them) every day for the last week(my car is in the shop being repaired cause of some bitch that hit me and ran... got his plates and he was arrested, but its in the shop cuz i dont do body work, and i miss it soo much!)Ive pretty much made up my mind on getting the MP 60mm tb and porting and polishing my intake manifold to match it(also a lot of controversy on whether you can port match it all the way to 60mm without adding more alluminum or not, but if i have to stop at 59mm or 58mm, its not biggie) but i hear all this talk of the MP tb on NA cars or turbo cars, but i cant find any info on how it works with nitrous applications. anyone have any experience?

My other question is, ill be going to college next year and i know there are a couple of tracks near by that im gonna run at. ive been running a 75 shot with no problems on 93 pump for a while now. compression is still 200-210-200-200, which is pretty good. my question is what do you think is the biggest shot my stock bottom end could handle at the track running race gas? even if its just an 80 shot, its still a step up. i was maybe wondering if i could, or anyone has pulled off a 100 shot with race gas on the stock bottom end, or if thats pushing it. cuz i figure thats what 240 crank hp, **maybe** 250-260 crank hp with my other mods. i still need this car for daily driving. thanks for any responses i appreciate it.

I was also thinking about getting a MSnS but that probably wont be till after my first few runs at the track, so i will be able to pull back timing eventually, but for now lets assume this is stock timing also.

thanks alot

-Chris

Have you searched?

You have 2 questions here, one belongs in the general section.

in my opinion, you should get your intake ported to 60 and just go with the mp 60mm TB(my mani is at 59, i guess thats all they could do)... thats just me though. that decision would be up to you....

Do you want to rebuild your stock bottom end? If you do, then i dont see why running a 100 shot on your stock bottom until your engine blows up would be a problem. With nitrous, its not uncommon to get a nice little hole in your block too when you throw a rod.

BUT, if you dont want to rebuild i would top it off at the 75 shot. Untuned, 75 can even be lethal.

But ive never shot nitrous so ill let someone more experience help you out. but for now, this is my opinion.

Good luck!

Originally posted by ajcfalcon
Have you searched? You have 2 questions here, one belongs in the general section. in my opinion, you should get your intake ported to 60 and just go with the mp 60mm TB(my mani is at 59, i guess thats all they could do)... thats just me though. that decision would be up to you.... Do you want to rebuild your stock bottom end? If you do, then i dont see why running a 100 shot on your stock bottom until your engine blows up would be a problem. With nitrous, its not uncommon to get a nice little hole in your block too when you throw a rod. BUT, if you dont want to rebuild i would top it off at the 75 shot. Untuned, 75 can even be lethal. But ive never shot nitrous so ill let someone more experience help you out. but for now, this is my opinion. Good luck!

Please re-read my post. my first sentence i believe was "I've been searching on this board for 2 weeks during both of my study halls everyday"... so that could give an indication that i searched :shrug

second, neither one of my questions need to be in the general section. i wasnt asking if i should get the 60mm tb, i said i made up my mind that i was, i was asking how it works out with nitrous applications. ive heard talk of NA applications, and turbo applications, but nothing on how the 60mm works with nitrous. like is there a big gain with nitrous like there is with a turbo.

sorry if i sound like a dick but i was thinking "damn theres no way i can get a 'did you search' response with this one" but i got it. and i would like some information from people with experience with nitrous, no offense. thanks for the opinion tho.

oh yeah its a wet shot... forgot to mention it but its in my sig.

I definatly dont have the time or funds for a new engine if the current one were to blow. i need this to get me to school and back next year(6 hours... 4 1/2 for me }( ) and i need it to be able to get me from my dorm to the auto lab everyday. I am aiming for around a 14.5 1/4 time with the 75 shot, and i was hoping that maybe with a bigger shot, and some awesome driving i might be able to nail a high 13, but i think thats almost impossible... let me dream lol but ya i would like to push it but if its too dangerous then i dont want to risk it.

i think the available race gas octanes around here are 104 and 114, but i might be mistaken on that. also something interesting, on a gas pump i was at, it said it was illegal to put leaded fuel in a car that says "unleaded gas only" on it. i dunno if you guys knew that, or if its just my state(il), but i never did and isnt 114 race gas leaded? but ya i was hoping i would be able to squeeze out a little bit bigger shot if i ran race gas, but if it will be too much of a risk i wont.

anyone with info or experience with the 60mm tb and nitrous? also if anyone has any more info about the shot with race gas im all ears. thanks for the help.

I use a 60mm jeep TB with a wetshot of NOS, I just bought a throttle spacer for a jeep cherokee drilled a hole and tapped it and it works perfectly.

Originally posted by Awsome98
I use a 60mm jeep TB with a wetshot of NOS, I just bought a throttle spacer for a jeep cherokee drilled a hole and tapped it and it works perfectly.

But, is there a difference? Thats what i want to know....

Pruned out all the BS in this thread. Sorry the useful comments went too, so please repost if you contributed something meaningful.

juan

haha, my post was deleted. Thats hilarious.

But yeah, if you searched you would know how much nitrous you push on your stock bottom end... that was my point.

oh yeah, your a dumbass...(hopefully that wont be deleted lol)

I don't know much about the TB issue, but I do know a little about the N2O.

It has been asked before, and the general answer was "75 shot on stock bottom end"

I think there are two issues with this.

1. You run the risk with a 100 shot of not having it tuned properly, not having the jetting corrected on the wet setup, not having the fuel pump power for it...etc.

2. Also, you mentioned what, 250-265 horsepower? Our rods are good to about 300 and our piston ring lands don't like detonation.

Bottom line, stick to 75 shot until you rebuild the bottom. Hope this helps. We certainly don't want you to see you blow your motor up.

Brian

Originally posted by ForceFed420a
We certainly don't want you to see you blow your motor up. Brian

ummm speak for yourself.... personally id laugh my ass off if this know-it-all blew his shit up.

Originally posted by ajcfalcon
haha, my post was deleted. Thats hilarious. But yeah, if you searched you would know how much nitrous you push on your stock bottom end... that was my point. oh yeah, your a dumbass...(hopefully that wont be deleted lol)

your making yourself look more and more retarded each time you post, and if you had basic reading and comprehension skills you would know i wasnt just asking what the bottom end could handle. the key was **RACE GAS**, could it handle a larger shot with race gas, which will raise the ability to prevent detonation. i dont know it all nor do i think i do, thats why i posted a question.

once again you have contributed nothing to the thread, yet you still seem to feel the need to post. just like you took my original question the wrong way, you took my response to your answer the wrong way, and thats not my problem. but please stay out of my thread and allow knowlegdable people to answer unless you have something helpful to say. thank you

Forcefed420a: ya ill probably just stick to the 75 shot then if its gonna be a risk. just trying to find some extra ponies. thanks for the HELP ive gotten. still looking for anyone with experience with the 60mm and nitrous together? good combo or does it not affect the performance as much as it does with a turbo?

Thanks for the answers, until then i will sit here depressed until i get my baby back...:-(

lol thanks guys, and i appreciate any more help i get. thanks

i like your attitude lol

I told you not to go over the 75 shot in my first post.... please tell me how that is not contributing... just because you dont want to listen and feel as though your some fucking hot shot doesnt mean you have to be an ass.

who gives a shit if its "race gas"??? Its comon knowledge on this board and if you would have searched you would already know that 75 is as much as you can go safely on the stock bottom end. you might be able to get away with more for a few runs but sooner or later it WILL blow.

And by the way, dont make personal attacks man. If your not gonna say this shit to someones face then it just makes you look like a pussy saying it on the internet. if you would have said that to my face i would have knocked you out.

As for the throttle body, take what you know about it and stick with it.. since you have searched so much. It will increase throttle response (obviously), and when your pushing that much horsepower it is going to take the restriction out of the intake path giving you some high end power. when your not on the bottle, it will still give you some but you will notice it more when you are shooting.

Are you looking for horsepower numbers or what exactly is your question?

Originally posted by ajcfalcon
I told you not to go over the 75 shot in my first post.... please tell me how that is not contributing... just because you dont want to listen and feel as though your some fucking hot shot doesnt mean you have to be an ass. who gives a shit if its "race gas"??? Its comon knowledge on this board and if you would have searched you would already know that 75 is as much as you can go safely on the stock bottom end. you might be able to get away with more for a few runs but sooner or later it WILL blow. And by the way, dont make personal attacks man. If your not gonna say this shit to someones face then it just makes you look like a pussy saying it on the internet. if you would have said that to my face i would have knocked you out. As for the throttle body, take what you know about it and stick with it.. since you have searched so much. It will increase throttle response (obviously), and when your pushing that much horsepower it is going to take the restriction out of the intake path giving you some high end power. when your not on the bottle, it will still give you some but you will notice it more when you are shooting. Are you looking for horsepower numbers or what exactly is your question?

i dont think the main problem is the power that anything above 75 will make, its the risk of detonation. because according to most sources(including hahn) our internals are good to 275 hp or so. and 140+75 is < 275. and race gas is higher octane which doesnt detonate as easily, thus why i asked the question.

i said you werent contributing because you werent answering my questions, you didnt understand my post and were answering questions i didnt ask. i told you i didnt mean to come off as a dick but i hate when people say use the search.

oh by the way, i didnt make any personal attacks on you, you made them on me in the post that was deleted, and telling me you would have knocked me out OVER THE INTERNET really makes you a man :rolleyes

i may have given a little additude when i replied to you, but i didnt call you names i just stated facts. then you made a whole post of just calling me a bunch of names. so i ask you can you please just stop posting in here unless you have some valuable information(like some of the stuff above) but leave out the insults? i would appreciate it.

anyone else with experience? thanks

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
and if you had basic reading and comprehension skills

i consider that a personal attack. and i said IF you would have said that to my face. i was not making threats.

Originally posted by ajcfalcon

Originally posted by GSGoinFast and if you had basic reading and comprehension skills

i consider that a personal attack. and i said IF you would have said that to my face. i was not making threats.

I'm making threats. Your attitude in this post of bad enough that i am considering re-moderating myself just so i can ban you.

Stop posting. Now. Otherwise, i will MAKE you stop.

thank god! ^^

You're going to want to stay at a 75 shot on a stock block because when you get into the 100+ shots you will need to tune. Also its a good idea once you go above a 100 shot to have a direct port system. Go above a 100 shot and you will blow your engine up plain and simple. One of the following will happen Melt valves, bend/break a con rod, crack a piston or send a piston/rod through the block. If you have any other questions just shoot me a message.

Haha thank you Darkone

Originally posted by eclipse_99rs
thank god! ^^ You're going to want to stay at a 75 shot on a stock block because when you get into the 100+ shots you will need to tune. Also its a good idea once you go above a 100 shot to have a direct port system. Go above a 100 shot and you will blow your engine up plain and simple. One of the following will happen Melt valves, bend/break a con rod, crack a piston or send a piston/rod through the block. If you have any other questions just shoot me a message.

see i dunno if you ever go on DSMtuners or not(sorry for referencing them) but DSMJim is a nitrous wiseman over there and he always says that a single nozzle is good up to a 250 shot but anything above 200 he would go direct port. so i dunno. but another thing i was thinking about was that i have a Zex kit, and ive always heard that Zex is always called "safer" because there shots are rated higher then what they really produce. i guess only a dyno would tell me but arent people running 75 shots on NX systems? cuz i know NX systems shots are precise hp amounts to the wheels. so i could maybe raise the shot a little on the basis of Zex lying about there shot lol. but again only testing it on a dyno would tell me.

i also forgot about the valve thing. i need to get some SS valves. ill get those when i do a head rebuild tho, which wont be for a while. so i guess ive got many things limiting me on how high of a shot i can go.

maybe with some dyno testing i might be able to bump it up to an 80 shot or maybe even an 85 shot but again that would take some dyno testing. but for now i guess ill just have to stick with the 75.

I appreciate all the help, im trying to get more involved here. I know a pretty good amount of information, I have 2000+ posts on tuners, but i post more there because there are so many wiser people on this site and there arent as many 2gnt people that know much over there, plus there questions are much simpler. but im trying to get more involved here. i appreciate all the help im getting tho.

anyone else with first hand experience wiht a 60mm and nitrous? thanks

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
anyone else with first hand experience wiht a 60mm and nitrous? thanks

It really shouldn't make any difference. You'll get the same gains as you would running a 60mm TB on any NA 2GNT.

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by GSGoinFast anyone else with first hand experience wiht a 60mm and nitrous? thanks

It really shouldn't make any difference. You'll get the same gains as you would running a 60mm TB on any NA 2GNT.

ok thats what i was looking for thanks. i was hoping it would give gains like it does with a turbo but alright that answers it thank you.

GS, nice job on keeping your cool man. You definately were the bigger man.

Dino, thanks for responding.

Again, I don't have experience with the TB and nitrous, but here's my thought.

The larger TB allows more air in, correct? So, better throttle response, better top end, better use with forced induction...etc.

But with N2O, there's no forced induction, and the extra oxygen is contained within the molecule itself not in the fact there is more air present (as with forced induction). So, it doesn't seem that a larger TB would benefit in this situation. Again, I'm not speaking from experience, but just thinking about it.

So you'd still have the benefits of the larger TB (especially on the top end with nitrous), but I don't think the N2O would be significantly augmented by the use of a larger TB. Unless I'm missing something?

Brian

Originally posted by ForceFed420a
The larger TB allows more air in, correct? So, better throttle response, better top end, better use with forced induction...etc. But with N2O, there's no forced induction, and the extra oxygen is contained within the molecule itself not in the fact there is more air present (as with forced induction). So, it doesn't seem that a larger TB would benefit in this situation. Again, I'm not speaking from experience, but just thinking about it. So you'd still have the benefits of the larger TB (especially on the top end with nitrous), but I don't think the N2O would be significantly augmented by the use of a larger TB. Unless I'm missing something? Brian

Good explination, Im sorry I didn't see this Pit's revisited post until now. I would have chimed in a long time ago but now that Dino and FF420a already said it I'm going to agree with them.

ok, i know im not supposed to post in here, but i figure if that many people hate me then i definitely owe you an appology. Im sorry i lost my cool man, and i thought i answered your questions.... but its all good. Good luck with your set up dude.

Originally posted by ForceFed420a
GS, nice job on keeping your cool man. You definately were the bigger man. Dino, thanks for responding. Again, I don't have experience with the TB and nitrous, but here's my thought. The larger TB allows more air in, correct? So, better throttle response, better top end, better use with forced induction...etc. But with N2O, there's no forced induction, and the extra oxygen is contained within the molecule itself not in the fact there is more air present (as with forced induction). So, it doesn't seem that a larger TB would benefit in this situation. Again, I'm not speaking from experience, but just thinking about it. So you'd still have the benefits of the larger TB (especially on the top end with nitrous), but I don't think the N2O would be significantly augmented by the use of a larger TB. Unless I'm missing something? Brian

ya that makes a lot of sense. i actually have to disagree with you a little on your explanaition but my understanding of it could be wrong so let me know if it is. While oxygen does make up a greater percent of the mass then with regular air, another power adder besides that is because it is so cold the nitrous is much denser, and it causes the air around it to become cold and denser as well. it might give a little more power due to there being a little more room for the much denser air to get in, but thats it. i think that makes sense but let me know if im wrong on that one. thanks for the help.

and ajcfalcon:
Its all good. i probably came off as a dick so dont worry about it.

Thanks everyone i appreciate the help.

GS, you are correct in that nitrous (in the gas phase) is very cold. The reason for this is because in the liquid state (in the tank), it takes up a certain amount of volume. When it's shot into the motor, the pressure is relieved and the gas expands. This expansion drastically reduces the pressure, and thus reduces the temperature.

This is a good benefit if the nitrous is setup in the fogger setup in the intake pipe/manifold or the "dry" shot. It gives it time to cool the air=denser charge...etc.

It was my understanding from your sig that you were using a wet setup. Are you doing this with the "NOSZLES" or whatever they're called, where the nitrous is injected with fuel-like a direct port injection. Or are you fogging with fuel and nitrous?

If you're fogging, the cooling effect will be good. If you're direct porting it, it will be less noticeable, since the nitrous doesn't have much time to come into contact with more than the air immediately around it.

My thoughts about the size of the TB will still be pretty much the same though. It will help the upper end of the power band, and if you're cooling the air in front of the TB, that effect will be magnified. However, I don't think it will help to the effect that a larger TB would on a forced induction car.

Does that kinda answer your question? Again, I'm just thinking about it, not speaking from experience. I'd be interested to see what the difference really is with a stock vs. larger TB. I'm just as curious as you.

Brian

Originally posted by ForceFed420a
GS, you are correct in that nitrous (in the gas phase) is very cold. The reason for this is because in the liquid state (in the tank), it takes up a certain amount of volume. When it's shot into the motor, the pressure is relieved and the gas expands. This expansion drastically reduces the pressure, and thus reduces the temperature. This is a good benefit if the nitrous is setup in the fogger setup in the intake pipe/manifold or the "dry" shot. It gives it time to cool the air=denser charge...etc. It was my understanding from your sig that you were using a wet setup. Are you doing this with the "NOSZLES" or whatever they're called, where the nitrous is injected with fuel-like a direct port injection. Or are you fogging with fuel and nitrous? If you're fogging, the cooling effect will be good. If you're direct porting it, it will be less noticeable, since the nitrous doesn't have much time to come into contact with more than the air immediately around it. My thoughts about the size of the TB will still be pretty much the same though. It will help the upper end of the power band, and if you're cooling the air in front of the TB, that effect will be magnified. However, I don't think it will help to the effect that a larger TB would on a forced induction car. Does that kinda answer your question? Again, I'm just thinking about it, not speaking from experience. I'd be interested to see what the difference really is with a stock vs. larger TB. I'm just as curious as you. Brian

sounds like a couple dyno runs are in order eh? never been to the dyno, but hey this is as good a time as any. i know its $75 for 3 runs. so maybe ill do one nitrous run with stock tb, then 1 NA run with the 60mm and P+P im and nitrous run with the 60mm and P+P im... sound good? ill do the first run in a week or so after i get my new exhaust on and work out some kinks with my nitrous kit.

oh yeah, my Zex kit is a single nozzle that is about 6" from my tb in my cai. sprays both fuel and nitrous from that point. so its being sprayed before the tb.

thanks for the help

-Chris

I'd love to know how you fare. Keep us updated!

Brian

I'm running the MP60mm TB with a port matched/gasket matched manifold with my nitrous setup and I think its a nice little touch. =)

We have similar setups. You should hit me up sometime.

Also, I wouldnt suggest anything over 75 for several reasons, mainly the fact that your ring lands wont support the extra cylinder pressures very efficiently.

Goodluck!

Originally posted by JWoodley
I'm running the MP60mm TB with a port matched/gasket matched manifold with my nitrous setup and I think its a nice little touch. =) We have similar setups. You should hit me up sometime. Also, I wouldnt suggest anything over 75 for several reasons, mainly the fact that your ring lands wont support the extra cylinder pressures very efficiently. Goodluck!

did you do the port matching yourself? ill hit you up when im doing it if i need some help, tho that wont be for a week or 2.

i dont think im gonna be able to hit that dyno, sorry. i didnt realize i had so much money(not a lot but more then i thought). i have $490 now, and i got $240 i need to pay for my exhaust. so i will have $250 left. dont have to worry about the tb, my parents are gonna buy me that for christmas(yes its february but i never ordered the shocks they were gonna get me for christmas so i decided to get this instead) im hoping to find a way to smuggle $260 from my paychecks to get the $510 i need for an eibach pro kit and tokico blues, without my parents noticing lol. all my money "needs" to be saved for college. so i gotta do some number crunching to get that suspension set up before i go. and maybe a front strut bar too. i also want a tint kit, security system... oh im fucked... lol soo i dont think there will be dyno runs. sorry. thanks for all the help.

My damn greddy header has a 3" crack in the collector now. My car sounds like a log truck or something. Bleh. I feel your pain. I'm a senior this year too. College is the suck.