Well Guys,

I went and spent a bunch of money on a project that is going to change the way of our 420a

I ordered the 3065 from Forced Performance it is basically a GT30R turbo but it has a custom housing made by FP that is stainless steel (seven pounds lighter) and it uses v-band clamps for the dp and 44mm Tial wastegate that is going once I come up with a extra $400...

The biggest problem of this project is the manifold. The design will be similar to full-race's (I tried to have them make it, but I can't drive my car to AZ) A local connection through the shop is going to build a equal length from stainless steel (no wastegate flange). I guess it will take two weeks to make, but when this bad boy gets on.. }(

I'm going to use my existing 3" dp, just cut off the three bolt flange and put the v-band on...Turbo placement will be lower than the hahn setup

Fuel system is OK except for the pump... AEM EMS, AEM 1:1 FPR, 800cc injectors, still using the inline from the Hahn kit.. I haven't picked a new one yet, any ideas? I already know of the sumo and other huge ass pumps that cost way too much money.. I haven't heard of anyone that maxed out the inline from Hahn yet?

Intercooler piping needs to get upgraded too.. 3" piping will be built and flange on a Tial BOV.. Unless you guys think the Type-S BOV will handle that much boost? I doubt it though

Pics will come when the UPS god arrives next week with the FP3065 and the stages of the manifold development/placement. I'm guessing around late Jan. or early Feb. it will be done .

The manifold will possibly turn into a production piece based on this setup.. anyone else interested in a bad ass manifold??? (If you still have A/C it will be a problem)

there a a few problems with what you are looking at doing. 1st is good luck ideling the 800cc injects with that 1:1 and the aem ems.


How are you going to do the fuel:boost relation? I assume with the ems?

Second is 3" intercooler piping is f*cking HUGE! I had 2.5' and imo it was a little to big. If your using 800cc injects then why not just go with a walbro 255lph?

Have you looked at the flow charts?

Your trying to re-invent the wheel, do more searching on your topics imo.

Nick
97RS

Ya!!! What he^^ said

Ok main thing is mantaining proper oil pressure with ball bearing turbos and keeping the oil flow as clean as possible to them....that seems to be the problem with em...i personally would have gone with the 3037 with t3 flange..... http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTGT3052&Category_Code=UNIV

But yes a SS housing sounds nice pluss it has a built in WG flange on the turbine housing..

BTW yah i would be interested in a bad ass manifold...but i am keeping ac so im creating what i call a "block hugger" manifold for my t4 turbo...so the compressor can face to the drivers side...

Originally posted by Collente
there a a few problems with what you are looking at doing. 1st is good luck ideling the 800cc injects with that 1:1 and the aem ems. How are you going to do the fuel:boost relation? I assume with the ems? Second is 3" intercooler piping is f*cking HUGE! I had 2.5' and imo it was a little to big. If your using 800cc injects then why not just go with a walbro 255lph? Have you looked at the flow charts? Your trying to re-invent the wheel, do more searching on your topics imo. Nick 97RS

Do you even know the concept of a full-standalone or are you stuck in piggy-back and FMU world??

Do more searching on what, your bad advice?

Hehehehe 20g that was brutal :P

And on the diameter of piping...ive allways been of the belief that it should be close (if not matched) to the size your TB...

In my case im prety much screwed to using 3 addaptors to change sizes...since my IC has 3" endtank outlets

Originally posted by SilverBullet20g
Do you even know the concept of a full-standalone or are you stuck in piggy-back and FMU world?? Do more searching on what, your bad advice?

They're stuck. Ignore them.

However, i still don't see how this is going to change the 420A world. Cool, yeah, but earth moving, no.

I would be interested in a good manifold.

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by SilverBullet20g Do you even know the concept of a full-standalone or are you stuck in piggy-back and FMU world?? Do more searching on what, your bad advice?

They're stuck. Ignore them. However, i still don't see how this is going to change the 420A world. Cool, yeah, but earth moving, no. I would be interested in a good manifold.

Thanks, Dino.. :thumbsup

The earth-moving part is the manifold...

I have tried soo many places to have someone make one..The estimated time to fab one up using CAD and the other programs is around 50 hours of labor @ $60hr... Thank you horsepower/torque freaks for the company support with this project..Since this will be designed for production they are willng to take the hit. The estimated cost for the first one is 1k....I'm sure the price will drop a little bit once it's done. It is the same company that makes the horsepowerfreaks IC/Turbo kits for Supras and other cars.
http://horsepowerfreaks.com/viewproduct~Toyota~Supra_93-98~~Horsepower_Kits~Stage_5_Kits~.html

$1000 for a manifold
and peoples don't even want to pay more than $250 for a log one ....

good luck in your project

Alain

$1000 is the cost of me having someone custom build one, yeah the cost is higher. Think about the time it takes to make one? I got cracks on my Hahn log style after the first three months..

That is actually cheap compared to what others charge for the same quality/design/materials
http://www.full-race.com/images/gallery/dsm/index.html
Full-race explains this better than I can
MATERIALS USED

Full Race uses only 8 gauge 304 forged stainless steel for maximum strength. Other turbo manifold manufacturers like Kooks and Kiwi use materials six times thinner than our material, which is more prone to cracking.

MERGE COLLECTORS

Full Race's merge collector creates a turblent free area for the exhaust gasses to enter the turbine housing in even pulses at high velocities. This allows the turbo to spool faster than most turbo manifolds on the market. Unlinke other turbo manifolds, the merge collector is welded inside and out which further prevents cracking.

DESIGN

Full-Race products are CAD/CFD designed using ADINA and FLUENT software.

You ever tried talking to Marco about making you one? I would give him a call and see if he is willing to help you. I really hope you get this working, I always wondered why alot of 420a guys stick with the normal turbo's......I have the 3052 which is its younger brother.....good luck with it all.

hrm... any hp numbers on this manifold being worth the expense over log?

Hey remy you know why most 2gnt'ers stick with normal turbos??? cause they are sheep....sheep i tell yah

Oh and since its an undivided mitsu style flange the pipes should be connected in a 1-3-4-2 order



This second one is easier to make, since you have the 2 pipes from 3,4 run over the other 2

12
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I'm actually working on a similar project now as well. Instead of using a FP3065, I'm using an FP red. My brother is currently running a FP3065 in his gsx (great turbo by the way) with the aem ems and 720cc injectors. Guess what... it idles fine. Don't listen to that crap about not being able to get your car to idle with 800cc injectors and the aem ems. It will take awhile to get it right, but it is very managable. Actually, you could probably copy the base maps for the 4g63 to give you a good starting platform.

The manifold will definately be your biggest obsticle (as is mine). For mine, I ordered a bunch of ss bends, a mitsu turbine flange, and a flange to the cyl head. First I'm going to make the manifold out of flexable piping to use as a model to make sure I won't have fitment issues. Next, I am using a chop saw to cut the ss piping and piece it together to match the flexable piping. As I construct the manifold, I will be tack welding each piece together, but if you don't have access to a welder, you can actually use tape (sounds ghetto, but it works). Then, once I have it all together, I'll be taking it to a weld shop and having it all TIG welded then sent out to be jet hot coated.

It's alot of work for sure, but I like the idea of having a one off manifold and not spending the money on having someone else make it. Good luck with it.

Thanks Matt! We should swap some development/progress pics to compare turbo placement/manifold....

Originally posted by SilverBullet20g
Thanks Matt! We should swap some development/progress pics to compare turbo placement/manifold....

Did you ever get the AEM EMS finally working?

Originally posted by BigBald

Originally posted by SilverBullet20g Thanks Matt! We should swap some development/progress pics to compare turbo placement/manifold....

Did you ever get the AEM EMS finally working?

Parts are in and ready to go..here is the list of parts required:
Wiring harness from (99-00) a Civic/Accord/Integra (Damn Hondas are all the same)
Complete tune of AEM EMS - pump and race gas
InstallAEM wide-band -includes welding in bung
Install and wire GM boost solenoid
re-wire cam and crank sensor
HPF EMS CIVI 99-00 AEM DIS Civic, HorsepowerFreaks, Engine
Mgmt Systems -EMS Complete Civic Package (99-00) wideband w/display
Ultra S - Lightened Crank Pulley 2.0L DOHC 16V, Non Turbo - ELCT-65467 Crank Trigger 1
646-77641 Gear sprocket 1

The custom part is the crank/cam sensor pickup...not that hard though..the shop is already starting on the second 420A for the AEM EMS conversion

Originally posted by BlueMoonEclipse
Hey remy you know why most 2gnt'ers stick with normal turbos??? cause they are sheep....sheep i tell yah Oh and since its an undivided mitsu style flange the pipes should be connected in a 1-3-4-2 order This second one is easier to make, since you have the 2 pipes from 3,4 run over the other 2 12 34

I am not Remy......lol

BAHAHAHAHA must have been drunk when i posted that :) its ok man same diff...not

I would contact Foward Motion inc before I try Magnus....

I went to Full Race to see about getting a manifold done... The guy i spoke to did not seem to optimistic about making one for our vehicle. I am supposed to go back soon to meet with the actual welder to get a second opinion.

Originally posted by run4cvr
I went to Full Race to see about getting a manifold done... The guy i spoke to did not seem to optimistic about making one for our vehicle. I am supposed to go back soon to meet with the actual welder to get a second opinion.

Yeah I have spoke with them and they basically said it is going to cost more than what I'm doing right now..for the same quality and I don't have to drive to AZ! They do great work, if I lived nearby I would of picked them..

Originally posted by Collente
1st is good luck ideling the 800cc injects with that 1:1 and the aem ems.

I'm running 880 cc/min injectors w/ my megasquirt. Hopefully I'll be fireing it up for the first time tonight. I'm sure it will idle fine, 880's aren't very big.

Originally posted by etx

Originally posted by Collente 1st is good luck ideling the 800cc injects with that 1:1 and the aem ems.

I'm running 880 cc/min injectors w/ my megasquirt. Hopefully I'll be fireing it up for the first time tonight. I'm sure it will idle fine, 880's aren't very big.

Lemme know how it goes thats what I plan to do

Originally posted by etx

Originally posted by Collente 1st is good luck ideling the 800cc injects with that 1:1 and the aem ems.

I'm running 880 cc/min injectors w/ my megasquirt. Hopefully I'll be fireing it up for the first time tonight. I'm sure it will idle fine, 880's aren't very big.

If you think 880s aren't very big then you're full of shit. Sorry but it's true.

Originally posted by dougie2

Originally posted by etx

Originally posted by Collente 1st is good luck ideling the 800cc injects with that 1:1 and the aem ems.

I'm running 880 cc/min injectors w/ my megasquirt. Hopefully I'll be fireing it up for the first time tonight. I'm sure it will idle fine, 880's aren't very big.

If you think 880s aren't very big then you're full of shit. Sorry but it's true.

:whoa ...They are only big if you can't control them.

You're full of shit too. Does that mean if I'm able to control 1600cc injectors then they're not big? You're dumb. If you had any real experience with tuning at all then you'd typically categorize an almost 900cc injector as "big". Shit, that's easily enough fuel to support 600HP.

The problem with trying to idle "large" injectors with a small 4 cylinder, and have it idle well anyway, is that most fuel injectors don't like to work properly at anything under 1 millisecond. So, theoretically, there will be a limit as to how large of an injector you can idle with. Of course you can always lower the fuel pressure also,but still, it will idle like crap. If it's a daily driven street car, then you may not like that too well. All fuel injectors have limits, not only with how much fuel they can flow, but also, how little they can flow. 880 injects even at 1 ms pulsewidth, will prob be pretty rich. I would imagine it would run..hopefully :)

No more personal attacks.

As for injector sizes ... 800cc/min injectors are BIG. That does not mean that you can't idle with them or make them work but it does not mean that they are small. End of discussion. Get back on topic.

IF I had exact measurments of the manifold flange, I possibly would be able to make a CAD drawing for you in school. Sounds like a badass car imo. I'm taking 3d CAD now but So far, i have the concept pretty good. The only thing I would have problems with is the piping, I'm not EXACTLY sure on how to make the piping. I will ask in my next cad class, good luck and happy spending haha

I'm using a log manifold in the meantime till I have time to draw an equal length one up in Solid Edge, then CFD it in Fluent. TIG'd stainless is the only way to go.