i was just thinking, how much farther or closer are the ports from a 4g63 and a 420a? if theyre not to far off i bet a peice of some 3/8 steel adapting the 4g63 to the 420a bolt pattern might be a good way of having some more manifold options open to us. what do you think? id need a 4g63 manifold and a 420a flange to see just how close or far the hole were off and if it would even work

420a flange


4g63 flange


Can both be bought from turboflanges.com for $20 each.
http://www.turboflanges.com/MitsuDodge.htm

Have fun!

There are so many fitment issues involved in this, i don't even wanna start.

thanks so much :) thats a very good picture, and also a good link */me bookmarks* im going to get a 4g63 flange and bring it to a metal fabrication shop and see what they think. it looks like it'll work but the 420a ports are smaller...hmmm...if anything it'll just be less restriction

input input input

Originally posted by DarkOne
There are so many fitment issues involved in this, i don't even wanna start.

please, start...i dont know if i could make it work or not until i see both flanges next to eachother. i want to hear what everyone has to say because come on...no one fucking makes decent manifolds for the 420a guys :wallbash and if we had a solution such as this, a whole ton of people would would benefit from it.

i just ordered a 4g63 manifold flange for shits and giggles, i'll see if my fabricator guy has any tricks up his sleeve (im sure he does) and i'll let you guys know

pretty cool. now get a 4g63 ecu and figure out how to swap that out :p

Originally posted by soulcontroller
pretty cool. now get a 4g63 ecu and figure out how to swap that out :p

lol :dark...no way

mechanical shit is what i love, fuck electronics :wallbash

Ok I'll start. Stick your finger between your turbo and your radiator fans. Oh wait- you cant. What makes you think a couple of 3/8" flanges are thinner?

Also notice the 4g63 manifold exits straight down.

That said, if you want a 4g63 manifold in perfect shape, I have one for sale, as usual. ;)

Originally posted by thedawg
Ok I'll start. Stick your finger between your turbo and your radiator fans. Oh wait-

slimlines own, and besides....the turbo wont be in the same spot with a 4g63 manifold...

im not talking about a stock manifold, persay...just 4g63 manifolds are evrywhere, including tubular equal lengths, etc etc...turbo location is much more tucked in anyway, away from the radiator

i dont think fitment will be a big deal

Why don't you just swap in the whole 4g63? It's an easy swap, fitment's no big deal.

Here's the writeup: http://evilboost.com/swaps.asp
(Edit: Link only works for IE because the author is an idiot, sorry.)

Originally posted by turbo8u
turbo location is much more tucked in anyway, away from the radiator

Right, but it's tucked away almost on top of the AC compressor. You'd have to make a very tight radius, almost 180* bend immediately after the turbine housing outlet, and even then I doubt you'd clear it.

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by turbo8u turbo location is much more tucked in anyway, away from the radiator

Right, but it's tucked away almost on top of the AC compressor. You'd have to make a very tight radius, almost 180* bend immediately after the turbine housing outlet, and even then I doubt you'd clear it.

ok well ac may not be retained then...its not that huge of a deal to a lot of us i think, roll the window down :P

180 bends are easy though, i have 24/7 access to a mandrel bender

and btw, the compressor for a 4g63 car is on the left, or by the ac compressor...the turbine or exhaust housing is closer to the starter. this obviously presents a possible intake pipe problem to the turbo, but im sure that can be worked around too...and again if theres no ac im sure it'll fit

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by turbo8u turbo location is much more tucked in anyway, away from the radiator

Right, but it's tucked away almost on top of the AC compressor. You'd have to make a very tight radius, almost 180* bend immediately after the turbine housing outlet, and even then I doubt you'd clear it.

ok well ac may not be retained then...its not that huge of a deal to a lot of us i think, roll the window down :P 180 bends are easy though, i have 24/7 access to a mandrel bender and btw, the compressor for a 4g63 car is on the left, or by the ac compressor...the turbine or exhaust housing is closer to the starter. this obviously presents a possible intake pipe problem to the turbo, but im sure that can be worked around too...and again if theres no ac im sure it'll fit

GDI did no one read my post...bleh waste of time!!

Originally posted by turbo8u
the compressor for a 4g63 car is on the left, or by the ac compressor...the turbine or exhaust housing is closer to the starter.

I'm aware of that, but after i thought about it, i didn't see any reason you couldn't re-clock the turbo and turn it around, and so i neglected to mention it.

Turby, why not just buy a flange and make your own manifold? Aside from is being cast, it doesn't get much more basic than a stock 4g63 manifold.

ill figure something out, as soon as i get the flange back im goin to work

Hehehe honestly i would think if you bought a cheap (aka crack prone) pacesetter 4g63t exhaust, chopped off the flange and worked the 420a exhaust flange you could make it work...

thing is the 4g engine sits torwards the right side of the engine bay...most if not all 4g manifolds/hedders place the exhaust turbine housing sorta in the middle of the engine (right to left).....and the compressor side is offstet to the passanger side of the engine bay...whats the issue you might ask??

well our engine is the other way arround, and torwards the passanger side of the bay meaning now the turbo would interfear probably with your p/s, and acc on that side, NOW if you dont have Accessories this would not be such a big issue...and if you have a nice FMIC you can now run the tubbing to the intercooler...and straight back out to the TB instead of having to use a j pipe running back to the TB side(like you have to do if you dont have a hahn intercooler)

if you flip the turbo to have the compressor on the drivers side the problem is that now the turbo will be trying to become one with your radiator (remember unless its an on center turbine housing, the tangential turbo nousing will stick out hmmm 4 more inches when flipped arround, instead of tucking neatly under the headders)...see thats the reason its a lil harder to make an equal length turbo headder for us if you keep the compressor oriented torwards the drivers side..cause you gota go out and back (trying to get the turbo flange closest possible to the block within limits...this gives you space for your turbo between the block and the radiator)


Bleh do eeet...im not saying it couldent be done...i was contemplating doing this back when i originaly had my 16g (yah i was plannning to hack the cheap pacesetter headder to make it fit :) ) ....hmm hmm cracking bad though

why is everyone always worried about cracking? if its welded right you dont have to worry about it :shrug

i was thinking about cutting off the flange too...thats not a bad idea

im just sick of not having any other options for manifolds, the 4g63 guys typically dont know shit about cars and yet they get all the goodies...

im definately going to do my best to get this to work though, if anyone has a manifold/turbo from a gst i can use to test fit that would be awesome...i'll even pay you to borrow it

ok my turn

Why waste your time/money? Why reinvent the wheel? No one on this board (to the best of my knowledge) has maxed out a log style manifold.

Anyone here pushing 550+hp? Not that I know of

Guys, The turbo uses the pressure difference between the manifold and the rest of the exhaust to turn the blades of the turbine. You want as much pressure in that manifold as possible to push over those turbine blades.

Neon are out there pushing 600hp on log style manifolds, untill you reach those kinds of HP numbers I don't see the point.

END RANT

Originally posted by babybeclipse
ok my turn Why waste your time/money? Why reinvent the wheel?

fabrication is my middle name, and well...i have a mandrel bender, a tig welder and im bored...so just picking up another side project because i see potential even if there is none there, at least i'll know

Originally posted by babybeclipse
Anyone here pushing 550+hp?

not just yet :P

Keep us posted, this sounds interesting. I was planning on going with the fast fab manifold, but since they no longer sell them, its been tough trying to find a decent manifold.

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by babybeclipse ok my turn Why waste your time/money? Why reinvent the wheel?

fabrication is my middle name, and well...i have a mandrel bender, a tig welder and im bored...so just picking up another side project because i see potential even if there is none there, at least i'll know

Originally posted by babybeclipse Anyone here pushing 550+hp?

not just yet :P

I don't care if you try it bro, but why not just make 420a mani's, if your board and need something to do??? :shrug

Originally posted by babybeclipse
Anyone here pushing 550+hp?

If it's making 550hp why are you pushing it? It should be pushing you.

Oh yeah, Turby. Bad idea. Don't be a fucking Meatwhistle, if you wanna do it do it right and just make a whole manifold.

Originally posted by etx

Originally posted by babybeclipse Anyone here pushing 550+hp?

If it's making 550hp why are you pushing it? It should be pushing you. Oh yeah, Turby. Bad idea. Don't be a fucking Meatwhistle, if you wanna do it do it right and just make a whole manifold.

^^^^ yup thats what im doing so i can position it EXACTLY where i want it for fitment, big turbo dont like little engine bay

Originally posted by turbo8u
i want to hear what everyone has to say because come on...no one fucking makes decent manifolds for the 420a guys :wallbash

define decent .....

I busted my ass to do quality log type manifolds whilr most of the members here were looking for biodegradable crap

Alain

Originally posted by alain95i4
log type manifolds

exactly, log type. my HRC log manifold works great and all but i mean, its just dumb the 4g63 guys have like a million options and we have like, 4...

if we could adapt the 420a to the 4g63 flange, we'd pick up a wealth of options for manifolds..thats the plan anyway, if it doesnt work...oh well

Maybe you don't have to look for a 4g63 manifold... I mean, if you're going to attempt to make an adaptor plate, look for a good manifold that meets the space requirements. It doesn't matter what kind of 4 banger it comes off of.

yeah you are right Ner...

BTW log manifolds are good (like alain's they have good durability and since the runners are so short you have minimal heat loss to the manifold, but this can be remedied in a tubular by a complete inside out high temp ceramic coat), not great...look at the angles at which the exhaust gas converge...there is definitively turbulence, and i would also say that the pulses loose energy crashing each other....(might not be much energy..but it should affect spool some)...think about it...

Originally posted by alain95i4
...biodegradable crap...

Hey, I bet a biodegradable manifold where the turbo falls off of it like a baby tooth would pass emissions in CA. Biodegradable car parts, the emissions nazis would suck that shit right up.

I like mine :)


WWW.CNNMOTORSPORTS.COM

Originally posted by Remy
I like mine :) WWW.CNNMOTORSPORTS.COM

<starts spanking the monkey>

Originally posted by BlueMoonEclipse

Originally posted by Remy I like mine :) WWW.CNNMOTORSPORTS.COM

<starts spanking the monkey>

werd

yea see what i mean, we could use that manifold...

:splooge:

first of all, have you ever even looked where the turbo is placed on a 4g63? on our motors it would be sitting right on the starter=fire/melting shit. If you have a mandrel/TIG so weld some tubular equal length manifolds!

hmmmmmm.....I am with you turby.....part of owning a DSM means being innovative at times. I like mines too.....

god that would look so hot under my hood, get busy making that adapter

Originally posted by donnyb373
get busy making that adapter

I agree. Ye shall post no more until the manifold is finished! :wavy

Nicest... manifold... evar.
I've got a mandrel bender too at my uncle's old shop. Too bad I can't use it for shit. and I don't know to weld either..... time to starting learning :)
with enough thinking and plotting you could most definitely get the 4G mani to work with the 420A flange, just need to check the ports out a bit... and the picture makes them look relatively the same so I don't think it is that big of an issue.
another idea, if the mani hits things, machine a larger adapter, that's not just a plate, more like a block. probably not the most mechanically sound idea (bolting the mani to the adaptor to the engine) but you could accomplish two things ... better matching of the ports, and you could move the manifold out more, rotate it, angle it, however so to get the manifold right where you want it. it'd be a very expensive piece to machine though... making the entire venture basically worthless.

It took forever, but I got the turboflange...

I have a extra gasket for my 1G GSX to show how easily this could be done if the turbo placement was the same...





you can enlarge the pics here: http://www.cardomain.com/id/silverbullet20g

Originally posted by SilverBullet20g
It took forever, but I got the turboflange... I have a extra gasket for my 1G GSX to show how easily this could be done if the turbo placement was the same... you can enlarge the pics here: http://www.cardomain.com/id/silverbullet20g

whoa. the runners almost line up. :P


and you could easily drill those holes out.


hmm.

Since they match up so close, why not cut the flange off the 4g63 manifold and weld it on the 420a manifold. Then just port the 420a flange. Thats what I'd do.

If you make an adapter plate, I wouldn't drill out the holes for the 4g manifold. I'd weld in some studs. I think it would be a ploblem to get the manifold tight enough to the 420a flange to make a seal. Then you have to get the whole damn thing on the head.

It just looks like you might have to skip some bolts to get it on, but maybe not. If you cut the gasket around the bolt holes, you could see a little better what you have to work with.

Originally posted by Dirty
Since they match up so close, why not cut the flange off the 4g63 manifold and weld it on the 420a manifold. Then just port the 420a flange. Thats what I'd do. If you make an adapter plate, I wouldn't drill out the holes for the 4g manifold. I'd weld in some studs. I think it would be a ploblem to get the manifold tight enough to the 420a flange to make a seal. Then you have to get the whole damn thing on the head. It just looks like you might have to skip some bolts to get it on, but maybe not. If you cut the gasket around the bolt holes, you could see a little better what you have to work with.

4g manis are cast iron, gl welding that

I think he was talking about the other manifolds (DNP, South Florida Performance, Full-race, etc...)

Originally posted by Dirty
Since they match up so close, why not cut the flange off the 4g63 manifold and weld it on the 420a manifold.

^^^
This was my first thought too. But then again I belive darkone said it best
"there are so many fitment problems"

Even if you wanted to use a cast iron manifold, why not. I don't know what kind of flange you wanna use but you can weld/braze cast iron.

As for the fitment, fuck it, if someone is willing to try then do it. Thats how we learn.