Okay the scoop is......I'm not gonna get into this thing for a lot. But I need boost. I have a sponsor who is willing to give me 1000-1200 for whatever I want.

Now, I will still have a stock bottom end. But once it's pulled and if the pistons and rods look good, we're just gonna hone the cylinder walls and re-ring the pistons.

If the piston and/or rods don't look to hot (only 90K miles) then my dad can get a full set of stockers w/ rods for $500 (compared to almost 1000 700 eagles and 150 rings)

I've got 150 across the board because of shitty rings (leakdown). My car is parked at the shop as of this coming weekend. So we're gonna start soon. I should have my sponsor check in the bank next week also.

Now the turbo part.

what do i do? I've searched tons.

With stock internals i'm thinking 5,6,7,8 psi?????

so do i go with a smaller quick 14b or T25 or a larger T3

Whats the diff between alains t3 and a 14b mani? just the flange?

I can get alain's last mani with a T3 flange or something else? i'm so confused.

What kind of BOV? there's so many? Will venting to the atmosphere cause my car to run shitty/rich at idle? Do I need an S-AFC?

I'm thinking fuel system, 370cc with S-FMU. Simple. no Megasquirt yet.

i'm looking at a wideband and I have a Brand NEW Snap-On SOLUS scanner at the shop for tuning.

Exhaust will be handled at a custom shop in town. Do i go 2.5" or 3"?


Overall my goal is nothing crazy. I want this car to maybe roll 200+ horsepower and be sexy at the same time. The car is going to be painted and interior stripped and redone for a full summer consisting of 22 car shows.

Email me...we have MUCH to discuss.

uberingram@azsrt-4.com

okay done.

it sounds like i'm in trouble :shrug

Originally posted by Blizare
Okay the scoop is......I'm not gonna get into this thing for a lot. But I need boost. I have a sponsor who is willing to give me 1000-1200 for whatever I want. Now, I will still have a stock bottom end. But once it's pulled and if the pistons and rods look good, we're just gonna hone the cylinder walls and re-ring the pistons. If the piston and/or rods don't look to hot (only 90K miles) then my dad can get a full set of stockers w/ rods for $500 (compared to almost 1000 700 eagles and 150 rings) I've got 150 across the board because of shitty rings (leakdown). My car is parked at the shop as of this coming weekend. So we're gonna start soon. I should have my sponsor check in the bank next week also. Now the turbo part. what do i do? I've searched tons. With stock internals i'm thinking 5,6,7,8 psi????? so do i go with a smaller quick 14b or T25 or a larger T3 or 16G? Whats the diff between alains t3 and a 14b mani? just the flange? I can get alain's last mani with a T3 flange or something else? i'm so confused. What kind of BOV? there's so many? Will venting to the atmosphere cause my car to run shitty/rich at idle? Do I need an S-AFC? I'm thinking fuel system, 370cc with S-FMU. Simple. no Megasquirt yet. i'm looking at a wideband and I have a Brand NEW Snap-On SOLUS scanner at the shop for tuning. Exhaust will be handled at a custom shop in town. Do i go 2.5" or 3"? Overall my goal is nothing crazy. I want this car to maybe roll 200+ horsepower and be sexy at the same time. The car is going to be painted and interior stripped and redone for a full summer consisting of 22 car shows.

WOW, there is a lot here. Well i'll start off by saying you should be able to run 7psi fine on a stock bottom end. Bubt if you are to rebuild then why not beef it up and be positive. 200+ horsepower should be easy with just 7psi and some supporting mods like exhaust, etc. You can vent to the atmosphere fine because you dont have MAF looking for the extra air to be pushed back into the intake. I would just get a used kit because if you have never done it before its a pain in the ass. I have had both so i know. Get a used stage 2 for 2k, a built bottem end (since you are doining it already), 440's, SFMU, SAFC, and supporting mods and you should be able to run 15psi daily no problem. That was my plan and pretty much my setup but i never got the fuel injectors in. Other wise some 30lb injectors (don't know the cc) and a stock bottom end with 7 psi should be fine to get 200 horses.

In other words get a kit and have much less headaches than trying to make your own, fabricating your own downpipes, and IC pipes.

I'm sure i left something out so forgive me.

Originally posted by optimuspeterson
Other wise some 30lb injectors (don't know the cc)

just multiply whatever lb by 10.5 to get cc usually

Originally posted by Blizare
Okay the scoop is......I'm not gonna get into this thing for a lot. But I need boost. I have a sponsor who is willing to give me 1000-1200 for whatever I want. Now, I will still have a stock bottom end. But once it's pulled and if the pistons and rods look good, we're just gonna hone the cylinder walls and re-ring the pistons. If the piston and/or rods don't look to hot (only 90K miles) then my dad can get a full set of stockers w/ rods for $500 (compared to almost 1000 700 eagles and 150 rings) I've got 150 across the board because of shitty rings (leakdown). My car is parked at the shop as of this coming weekend. So we're gonna start soon. I should have my sponsor check in the bank next week also. Now the turbo part. what do i do? I've searched tons. With stock internals i'm thinking 5,6,7,8 psi????? so do i go with a smaller quick 14b or T25 or a larger T3 or 16G? Whats the diff between alains t3 and a 14b mani? just the flange? I can get alain's last mani with a T3 flange or something else? i'm so confused. What kind of BOV? there's so many? Will venting to the atmosphere cause my car to run shitty/rich at idle? Do I need an S-AFC? I'm thinking fuel system, 370cc with S-FMU. Simple. no Megasquirt yet. i'm looking at a wideband and I have a Brand NEW Snap-On SOLUS scanner at the shop for tuning. Exhaust will be handled at a custom shop in town. Do i go 2.5" or 3"? Overall my goal is nothing crazy. I want this car to maybe roll 200+ horsepower and be sexy at the same time. The car is going to be painted and interior stripped and redone for a full summer consisting of 22 car shows.

I noticed you lack any mention of intercooling?
venting to atmosphere wont do shit to our cars, they use a MAP not a MAF
no you dont need an S-AFC

btw: BUY MAXIMUM BOOST.

And you can get a mani from Alain better than we can, since you're both up there in Canukistania. ;)

Originally posted by DR1665v2
And you can get a mani from Alain better than we can, since you're both up there in Canukistania. ;)

:werd up homie

If you use any injectors besides the stock ones then a SAFC is pretty much a must when tuning otherwise there would be no point in upgrading if you aren't going to bother tuning your car.

EDIT: I edit the first part of my message thinking he was quoting me, woops.

Originally posted by optimuspeterson
intercooler is implied when i said by a kit. ie. when i said fabing intercooler pipes. If you use any injectors besides the stock ones then a SAFC is pretty much a must when tuning otherwise there would be no point in upgrading if you aren't going to bother tuning your car. and yes i ment MAP

he didn't quote you...

You have a long email from me mang.

I am in the same boat blizare, What HP #'s should I expect from all stock motor with just the HRC Stage 2 kit running either 5 to 7 psi?

I don't plan on messing with injectors or anything to that nature. Just the HRC Stage 2 with the smic that comes with it and a 3" catback exhaust. So where would you say I would be HP wise?

I just recently had my headgasket replaced and they did a compression test and I talk with the guy and he said my motor was sound and had great compression in all cylinders.

Originally posted by Aggression
I am in the same boat blizare, What HP #'s should I expect from all stock motor with just the HRC Stage 2 kit running either 5 to 7 psi? I don't plan on messing with injectors or anything to that nature. Just the HRC Stage 2 with the smic that comes with it and a 3" catback exhaust. So where would you say I would be HP wise? I just recently had my headgasket replaced and they did a compression test and I talk with the guy and he said my motor was sound and had great compression in all cylinders.

I'd love to see 200-200 whp. I don't think thats too unrealistic but i'm not sure.

I'd like to run larger injectors to be safe side and I'd like to use the SAFC and wideband to tune.

Obviously cooling the intake charge is beneficial but is it worth running a side mount? for 5,6,7 psi?

OKay, i'm gonna run a sidemount. Injen is hooking me up.

I have been reading about turbo's and talking with one of my local friends that works on Eclipses and has a 97 turbo'd 420A. He has been boostin for 3 years now. He tells me I don't need to worry about injectors if I only plan on running 5 to 7 psi. He said if I were to get injectors I would need a Safc, but he says I really don't need injectors if all I plan on running is 5 to 7 psi. Now if I plan on running more then that, yes I would want to upgrade the injectors along with some internal work as well.

I know I am not upgrading anything except the exhaust system after I put on my turbo kit. After a a year I plan on doing more so I am able to up the boost level to about 11 or 15 psi. Other then that I will stay stock at 5 to 7psi.

Hey man good luck with your setup. We can share BANME!ie turbo questions and experiences!

You dont NEED bigger injectors, but why not add something like 330's and have that extra safety margin? They are not that much bigger so they can still be made to idle fine.

Has your friend ever looked at his fuel pressures? At the flow rates of his pump(s)? I would rather not be checking my fuel lines AS often ( you still want to check em no matter what).


I ran the Star for almost 50K miles and about 3-4yrs. @ 10Psi. It can be done, just very carefully.

i ran a star kit for many moons myself, with these mods-

-star stage 2
-bored 55mm TB
-crane #12 cams
-cam gears
-2.5" turboback exhaust w/ testpipe
-t3/t4 50trim, .63 A/R stage 2 exhaust turbo

i ran a 14.50@98.38 on 6.5psi in 93 degree heat- 2.29 60'

on the dyno- no i dont have a chart, dont ask for one

-at 9psi, 78 degree temps i made 217.4hp/212.8tq

seems that most people with the 16g and little other mods besides exhaust will only make 185-190hp@8-9psi...yes i had some other mods like cams, but basically the extra power is comming from the better turbo and downpipe that the star kit gives you.

Originally posted by My99eclipseRS
i ran a star kit for many moons myself, with these mods- -star stage 2 -bored 55mm TB -crane #12 cams -cam gears -2.5" turboback exhaust w/ testpipe -t3/t4 50trim, .63 A/R stage 2 exhaust turbo i ran a 14.50@98.38 on 6.5psi in 93 degree heat- 2.29 60' on the dyno- no i dont have a chart, dont ask for one -at 9psi, 78 degree temps i made 217.4hp/212.8tq seems that most people with the 16g and little other mods besides exhaust will only make 185-190hp@8-9psi...yes i had some other mods like cams, but basically the extra power is comming from the better turbo and downpipe that the star kit gives you.

is that on stock bottom end sir?

so you say with the HRC Stage 2 on stock motor and only a 3" catback will only give me 185 to 190hp @ 9 psi at the crank? That is only a 45 to 50hp gain from stock. So with only 5 to 7 psi I will only be gaining maybe 30 35hp total.

SHIT!!!

I thought I would actually gain more then that. Well I don't even know if its worth the money now. FUCK IT!!! NO Turbo for me then!

Originally posted by Aggression
so you say with the HRC Stage 2 on stock motor and only a 3" catback will only give me 185 to 190hp @ 9 psi at the crank? That is only a 45 to 50hp gain from stock. So with only 5 to 7 psi I will only be gaining maybe 30 35hp total. SHIT!!! I thought I would actually gain more then that. Well I don't even know if its worth the money now. FUCK IT!!! NO Turbo for me then!

yes, because dynos measure hp at the crank
:rolleyes
remember our cars had about 110whp brand new, so thats more like a 100whp increase

Originally posted by 97whitESi

Originally posted by Aggression so you say with the HRC Stage 2 on stock motor and only a 3" catback will only give me 185 to 190hp @ 9 psi at the crank? That is only a 45 to 50hp gain from stock. So with only 5 to 7 psi I will only be gaining maybe 30 35hp total. SHIT!!! I thought I would actually gain more then that. Well I don't even know if its worth the money now. FUCK IT!!! NO Turbo for me then!

yes, because dynos measure hp at the crank :rolleyes remember our cars had about 110whp brand new, so thats more like a 100whp increase

Your mixing up HP with WHP. Its more like 50whp not a 100!

Originally posted by Aggression

Originally posted by 97whitESi

Originally posted by Aggression so you say with the HRC Stage 2 on stock motor and only a 3" catback will only give me 185 to 190hp @ 9 psi at the crank? That is only a 45 to 50hp gain from stock. So with only 5 to 7 psi I will only be gaining maybe 30 35hp total. SHIT!!! I thought I would actually gain more then that. Well I don't even know if its worth the money now. FUCK IT!!! NO Turbo for me then!

yes, because dynos measure hp at the crank :rolleyes remember our cars had about 110whp brand new, so thats more like a 100whp increase

Your mixing up HP with WHP. Its more like 50whp not a 100!

no, you actually got it mixed. when somebody says the dynoed it, it will probably mean WHP.

stock = ~110WHP
stage 2 w/exhaust = ~190WHP

= an 80WHP gain. you WILL feel the difference :)

Originally posted by 420a-Tnthewerks

Originally posted by Aggression

Originally posted by 97whitESi

Originally posted by Aggression so you say with the HRC Stage 2 on stock motor and only a 3" catback will only give me 185 to 190hp @ 9 psi at the crank? That is only a 45 to 50hp gain from stock. So with only 5 to 7 psi I will only be gaining maybe 30 35hp total. SHIT!!! I thought I would actually gain more then that. Well I don't even know if its worth the money now. FUCK IT!!! NO Turbo for me then!

yes, because dynos measure hp at the crank :rolleyes remember our cars had about 110whp brand new, so thats more like a 100whp increase

Your mixing up HP with WHP. Its more like 50whp not a 100!

no, you actually got it mixed. when somebody says the dynoed it, it will probably mean WHP. stock = ~110WHP stage 2 w/exhaust = ~190WHP = an 80WHP gain. you WILL feel the difference :)

now i can dig 90 whp.

fuckin A!

So you think i cna maybe bump the boost to 8psi?

i'm in w/ you guys blizare and aggression....but i probably won't be boosting mine w/ the HRC kit until the summer, so i'm trying to learn as much as i can until then. btw aggression, did you get my PM about the bumper you have FS?

yes I got it and like I said there is another guy that has first dibs. If he backs out you got it bro!

I have been told so many different things, and I have don't so many searches and still haven't found a straight answer on it for sure.

Grain told me today it would be about 50 more hp then I have now stock. Now you say 80 more stock. I've searched and came up with nothing on this.

What is the real gain here?

LOL @ Blizare..."Can I bump it up to 8psi" LMAO!!! He doesn't have the kit yet and already going boost crazy! LMFAO ROFL!!!

Your too much man...

Originally posted by Aggression
yes I got it and like I said there is another guy that has first dibs. If he backs out you got it bro! I have been told so many different things, and I have don't so many searches and still haven't found a straight answer on it for sure. Grain told me today it would be about 50 more hp then I have now stock. Now you say 80 more stock. I've searched and came up with nothing on this. What is the real gain here? LOL @ Blizare..."Can I bump it up to 8psi" LMAO!!! He doesn't have the kit yet and already going boost crazy! LMFAO ROFL!!! Your too much man...

haha your too much.

asking that question doesn't have anything to do with the fact that i have no turbo parts in front of me. :scratch

It was a relevent questions. can I bump it up to 8psi? yes or no.

just curious ya know cause the time will come when I wanna play with the little knoby on my boost controler... :P

i ran the HRC stage II w/ FMIC and a 2.5" exhaust when i had my car dyno'd at 10psi and got 190 WHP. that may not seem like much but i got 215 lb/ft torque. that's a BIG jump over stock. remeber hp for bragging rights but torque is what gets you down the road. on another note you probally want to replace your cluth if your turboing it. i did my fuel injectors and before i could even begin to tune it my clutch went out.

yes my runs were made on a stock bottom end.....and yes boost is worth the money...trust me...it makes a HUGE difference, 80hp gain is more then enough to feel it..

All this talk about 80hp which is really nice, but I just saw a really sweet RX-7 and man did it sound and look NICE!!!

So when you break it down lets say you get a good deal on a HRC Stage 2 and you pay $2000 for it and you gain 80hp from it....that is roughly $27.50 per hp right?

So that will put me at 190whp right? OK I think I will do it!

Crank hp is nothing but your whp is thing to be worried about you can have all the crank hp in the world but if it can't be transfered efficently to your transmission and then to the ground is the real matter. That why upgrading your your crank pulley to a light weight and alumium flywheel should be upgrade to those who really want to see the true power of their cars by reducing the stress of the motor to turn those heavy cast iron parts by using alumuim.

Also using these alumium parts allow you car to get to 190whp (for example) alot quicker than using cast iron parts.

Okay, I can get a T3 fairly cheap.

and i just won this stupid non intercooled charge pipe :shrug.

<---dumbass. I didn't want to run an intercooler anyways.

I'm buying....

Alain Manifold
GSX Sidemount
walbro 190
T3 - 42 A/R COMPRESSOR .48 A/R TURBINE w/ internal wastegate.
Vortech S-FMU
440 injectors ????
I can't decide on a BOV :shrug

what do i do about intercooler piping?


By the sounds of the prices I'll be getting the mani, turbo, S-MFU and injectors for FREE from the sponsorship.

Maybe I shouldn't be such a tightass.

Originally posted by Blizare
Okay, I can get a T3 fairly cheap. and i just won this stupid non intercooled charge pipe :shrug. <---dumbass. I didn't want to run an intercooler anyways. I'm buying.... Alain Manifold GSX Sidemount walbro 190 T3 - 42 A/R COMPRESSOR .48 A/R TURBINE w/ internal wastegate. Vortech S-FMU 440 injectors ???? I can't decide on a BOV :shrug what do i do about intercooler piping? By the sounds of the prices I'll be getting the mani, turbo, S-MFU and injectors for FREE from the sponsorship. Maybe I shouldn't be such a tightass.

well, since you want to be difficult and go custom :) there's more than what you have listed involved.

-440cc's are a bit overkill for ~7psi.
-intercooler piping will have to be custom bent at a shop.
-bov doesn't really matter for 7psi but examples: greddy type-s, hks ss, 1g, tial...
-you'll probably want some kind of air filter and tubing.
-oil lines
-something like missing link
-a properly flanged dp
-exhaust system

i'm probably forgetting things, it's late.

oh, and i'm not diggin the 190lph fp by itself. better go 255lph.

Originally posted by 420a-Tnthewerks

Originally posted by Blizare Okay, I can get a T3 fairly cheap. and i just won this stupid non intercooled charge pipe :shrug. <---dumbass. I didn't want to run an intercooler anyways. I'm buying.... Alain Manifold GSX Sidemount walbro 190 T3 - 42 A/R COMPRESSOR .48 A/R TURBINE w/ internal wastegate. Vortech S-FMU 440 injectors ???? I can't decide on a BOV :shrug what do i do about intercooler piping? By the sounds of the prices I'll be getting the mani, turbo, S-MFU and injectors for FREE from the sponsorship. Maybe I shouldn't be such a tightass.

well, since you want to be difficult and go custom :) there's more than what you have listed involved. -440cc's are a bit overkill for ~7psi. -intercooler piping will have to be custom bent at a shop. -bov doesn't really matter for 7psi but examples: greddy type-s, hks ss, 1g, tial... -you'll probably want some kind of air filter and tubing. -oil lines -something like missing link -a properly flanged dp -exhaust system i'm probably forgetting things, it's late. oh, and i'm not diggin the 190lph fp by itself. better go 255lph.

Oil lines i'm getting from ebay, intercooler piping can be bent when I get my friends shop to do the custom exhaust. I have several air filtersat the shop also, but yea, i need the pipe from the turbo.

and should i really buy the 255lph pump? i just figured that was overkill :shrug

Also, do you guys really think I should intercool it running 5-7 psi. I just bought a nice HRC upper pipe. Tb to turbo pipe.

Originally posted by Chamuko
You dont NEED bigger injectors, but why not add something like 330's and have that extra safety margin? They are not that much bigger so they can still be made to idle fine. Has your friend ever looked at his fuel pressures? At the flow rates of his pump(s)? I would rather not be checking my fuel lines AS often ( you still want to check em no matter what). I ran the Star for almost 50K miles and about 3-4yrs. @ 10Psi. It can be done, just very carefully.

I agree.. I dynoed a while ago at 270whp with Hahn/Accel 335cc injectors, SAFC2, Vortech 12:1 FMU and AEM 1:1 FPR. Good luck with the setup every thing is trial and error. Get ready for things to start breaking and lots of $$$

and by the way I have those injectors sitting in my garage (PM me) because I have 800cc now...

I have a little different opinion but not too far different.

Stock bottom is good to 300chp so if your happy with that then stay there for now. As for the SFMU....i dont liekit i had it and sold it, same with AFC which i still have for sale. Looks nice but not accurate enough for me.

my advise is get a stage 2 kit either hahn or star. if you build you own that is ok too. Use the 12:1 FMU for a while at 5psi. Then save up for 8 injector setup. they are getting easy to come by with MS becommig more popular. for the money you will spend on a SFMU and AFC you can get a good used 8 injector setup ready to bolt on and have a very good fuel management system for future plans as well. Its very easy to tune. I wish i would have done this becasue i lost money selling my SFMU and I am stuck with the SAFC now.

Later if you build the bottom end you would not need to worry about the fuel system.

At first i had my star stage 2 at 5 psi for 2 years with the basic fuel setup and my EGT's were no higher than 1450. Wideband is a great idea as you know and techedge makes a great one at a perfect price.
Good luck

Terry

Originally posted by SilverBullet20gGet ready for things to start breaking and lots of $$$

I guess it all depends on how hard you are on it and if you start upping the boost without the proper mods. I could be wrong! :shrug

Ok so you recommend that getting some 330cc injectors would be a good idea right? So then I would need a S-AFC correct? Well I searched for 330cc injectors and this is all I came up with.

Would this work and be ok for the setup I am doing?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7938074479&category=33554

those are for a turbo car from the factory. i believe they are a diff impedience and will need to be modified. too much pain in the ass. someone might be able to tell u for sue but i believe that is the case. u need ones specifically to fit the 420a
hope this helps

Originally posted by widebodyeclipse
those are for a turbo car from the factory. i believe they are a diff impedience and will need to be modified. too much pain in the ass. someone might be able to tell u for sue but i believe that is the case. u need ones specifically to fit the 420a hope this helps

they fit the furl rail but yea, different impedence. you need to solder resistors inline. PITA.

i'm just looking at some accel 330's

I found 0 330cc or 335cc injectors on ebay. What is a decent price for these injectors?

Some go in the for sale section for like 80 used.

Keep it low if you want to keep your stock bottom end. If you want to go crazy and play with the boost knob, then do a forged rebuild.

As for the aluminum stuff, You gain the hp from rev. faster and getting in the power band faster. You do loose some of the "smoothness" , in other words you will notice if you do a lot of daily driving in traffic.


As for that question about non-intercooled. Why in the hell not? You are sponsored, they can hook you up, if not, use the money saved from what you did get from your sponsor.

On a side note, Why have you guys not looked at the "things weve seen before section"? I know both of you have been around for a while and these things came up some time before you. Lots of info there.

I didn't read all the replies but if you want to make power and are spending money to put in new pistons and rings, why not spend a little extra and get forged pistons. i've heard of people running forged pistons on stock rods at 12psi. That'll make you happy :)